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Why would you max W first on Vayne?

Chalze··1 votes·2,266 views

Despite playing for a good couple years, I've never really been into ADCs but recently I have been learning the role and having quite a bit of fun with Xayah and Vayne. However, ever since doing some research on recommended builds both online and on YouTube, most of them tell me to max W first on Vayne.

From my knowledge, this sounds/feels wrong/weird. Why would you max W above Q first?

Maxing Q: More base damage which matters more early game (both trading and CS) More mobility to help with laning phase (dodging skillshots and/or evading ganks easier)

Maxing W: Lacking the mobility of maxing Q True % Health means less early than base damage

Am I missing something crucial? I just don't see how maxing W is better than maxing Q. Levels in Q seems a lot more important early than levels in W, whereas by the time you start putting levels into W (if you maxed Q first) its function starts to matter since that's when tanks/fighters/bruisers start getting more beefy.

Am I just dumb?

Vayne Vayne Vayne Vayne Vayne

16 Comments

Darkdemon6532 votes

The damage of W was buffed (with a larger effect at the later ranks) in patch 8.12 and the cooldown of Q was reduced (with a larger effect at the earlier ranks) in patch 8.14. Since those changes, W has been the way to go in most situations. If the extra mobility is necessary, Q is fine.

TrikzterzArma1 votes

You barely do it now. You used to do it because your Q got a 50% CD during your ult

Daddy Ants1 votes

{quoted}

You barely do it now. You used to do it because your Q got a 50% CD during your ult

Wrong.

nm10101 votes

Rageblade powerspike benefits more from w max and q has cdr during ult now. It allows really cheesy all ins to help snowball.

Pxerkza1 votes

better short trades

Q is for all ins and longer trades

Grimspeake1 votes

{quoted}

better short trades

Q is for all ins and longer trades

Exact opposite fam

Pxerkza2 votes

aa-q-e is better if you are maxing W as you don't have the cds to E ie the short trade is better if youve maxed W

Q diff between rank 1 and rank 5 is 20% ad W diff between rank 1 and rank 5 is 10% max hp

at lvl 9 lets say she has a bf sword and a dorans blade thats 48 bonus ad + 76 base = 124 ad

lets say she is attatcking another vayne that is also lvl 9 thats 1114 hp + 80 health from dorans = 1194 hp

at rank 5 Q 2 W an AA Q +E short trade would equal to 124+210+ 74 + (6.5%*1194)=408+78= 486 damage (ignoring armor cuz im too lazy to factor it in)

at rank 5 W 2 Q

an AA Q + E short trade would equal to 123+192+74 +(14*1194)=389+167= 556 (ignoring armor again)

now please go delete the game and everyone that decided to downvote because of reasons they can't even begin to comprehend This damage discrepancy grows larger by the armor and health difference between targets ie in a short trade where vayne does 1 Q and W proc W max is always better in a prolonged fight where vayne can proc more Ws Q STILL doesn't outscale the damage from W the difference between the way you want to max your abilities is the mobility you want from the champion (ie a 50% utility increase) if you want more stealth more access to you dodging abilities the utility from Q is > than the damage from W

but in terms of pure short trades where you proc W and not only poke with Q W is better

again delete lol please and everyone who downvoted

Grimspeake1 votes

{quoted}

aa-q-e is better if you are maxing W as you don't have the cds to E ie the short trade is better if youve maxed W

Q diff between rank 1 and rank 5 is 20% ad W diff between rank 1 and rank 5 is 10% max hp

at lvl 9 lets say she has a bf sword and a dorans blade thats 48 bonus ad + 76 base = 124 ad

lets say she is attatcking another vayne that is also lvl 9 thats 1114 hp + 80 health from dorans = 1194 hp

at rank 5 Q 2 W an AA Q +E short trade would equal to 124+210+ 74 + (6.5%*1194)=408+78= 486 damage (ignoring armor cuz im too lazy to factor it in)

at rank 5 W 2 Q

an AA Q + E short trade would equal to 123+192+74 +(14*1194)=389+167= 556 (ignoring armor again)

now please go delete the game and everyone that decided to downvote because of reasons they can't even begin to comprehend This damage discrepancy grows larger by the armor and health difference between targets ie in a short trade where vayne does 1 Q and W proc W max is always better in a prolonged fight where vayne can proc more Ws Q STILL doesn't outscale the damage from W the difference between the way you want to max your abilities is the mobility you want from the champion (ie a 50% utility increase) if you want more stealth more access to you dodging abilities the utility from Q is > than the damage from W

but in terms of pure short trades where you proc W and not only poke with Q W is better

again delete lol please and everyone who downvoted

If u use ur e to trade on me ur useless or dead in the next 18 seconds and if u get away with it about 2 and 1/2 times u cant walk back into lane because everyone gonna fight u if u wanna keep laning

Pxerkza1 votes

oh boy comming at me with theory after i proved to you that W proc trade is better with W max instead of Q max

great stuff keep at it

Eybdoog1 votes

I think everyone knows by now maxing Q is the way to go

Dynikus1 votes

Q max used to be the way to go, but W damage was increase, and Q cd was reduced some time last season. The shorter cd was the primary reason to max q, so W max is better in almost all situations. Q max first is better in rare matchups where you need the added mobility on a short cd.

TyRamos1 votes

Because unavoidable % max health true damage is way stronger than a little bit of auto damage that tabis laugh at.

WoonStruck1 votes

Q if you have a lead (burst), W if you're behind. The end.

Daddy Ants1 votes

{quoted}

Q if you have a lead (burst), W if you're behind. The end.

Wrong.

The reason Q max isn't a thing anymore is absolutely nothing to do with if the Vayne player is ahead or behind.

Daddy Ants1 votes

The reason W is maxed is because of patch 8.18.

Patch 8.18 Vayne's Q was reduced from 6 / 5 / 4 / 3 / 2 seconds cooldown to 4 / 3.5 / 3 / 2.5 / 2 seconds cooldown.

So now a rank 1 Q is the same cooldown as what a rank 3 Q was in patch 8.17 and earlier.

Only time I'd ever max Q is if I'm running a crit build.

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