Yuumi is just an awful concept (and the reasons why)

Śhunpo··2 votes·2,411 views

Yuumi as a champion simply isn't fair, even by DOTA 2 levels of insanity. Lifestealer is probably the closest thing to Yuumi in DOTA 2 and he doesn't heal, have a slow with the range of an entire lane, a better Sona ult, scaling damage bonuses, shields and did I mention healing? The most Naix (Lifestealer) can do is burst out of someone and be like "SURPRISE!", and that's that.

Oh, and did I mention that Lifestealer's parasitic ability is....wait for this.....AN ULTIMATE!

Yuumi's W is a basic ability that has basically no cooldown, and a very low punish window to actually stop her from doing what she needs to do (her travel speed is also far too high for you to catch, so yeah, that's a thing).


So, apart from this very clear comparison, what else makes Yuumi an irritation?

Well, for one she turns bot lane into a stalemate, until she starts spamming Qs and you start crying (which I'll get into below). When you play against Yuumi in the bot lane you just don't get to interact with your lane opponent (because Yuumi turns the lane into a pseudo juggernaut vs 2 people) because if you do you will lose due to Yuumi healing her ADC whenever you try to trade, which results in a loss as Yuumi will then go back to spamming Qs from inside her host.

Surely there's counterplay to this, right? Well, there is, but much like Yasuo aspects of her kit counter it out, which I'll get into now.


Yuumi's Q: Ok, so, Morg Q and Lux Q are bad, but that's only because of their hitbox. Yuumi's Q is a whole other level of stupid....

The fact that Yuumi can "guide" her Q from inside her host is already atrocious in terms of counterplay since upon missing the skillshot she can try again, and again....and again. However, that simply is not the end of the story here, as the Q itself lasts almost 2.5 seconds while in flight. So, what ends up happening is Yuumi misses the initial Q, then goes for the attempt 3-4 more times, even when you're sitting inside of creeps or teammates.

On top of these two aspects there also lies no window for punishes as she's sitting comfortably and safely inside of her host with the Q possessing the range of a Yasuo ult (which is a really large range by the way).

Side note, the Q does far too much damage (and has too much AP scaling) and the slow on it is quite large, so getting hit by it is definitely not something you can shrug off at any point in the game.

tl;dr, the three aspects of her Q that make it extremely unhealthy would be, the "guide" feature, the duration of the cast and the range of the Q; all on top of the fact she remains untargetable so that you can't actually stop the cast.

This ability definitely needs to be reworked/nerfed as it does not possess enough counterplay for such an impactful skillshot.


Yuumi's heal: Let me just get this point out of the way here, with that being, Grevious Wounds. It doesn't matter if you apply Grevious Wounds to her target, because 40% of ~560 is 224 (and that's from Kat's ultimate). 60% of that is 336. I'm pulling the figure of 560 from my experience playing both with and against Yuumis in the mid game.

Sure, early game, Grevious Wounds actually matter as her heal isn't too volatile in lane. However, the moment she picks up Ardent+Athene's GW are just an annoyance for Yuumi, she still does her job insanely well, and that's because of.....

The goddamn movement speed: As it turns out, Yuumi's heal doesn't just provide the obvious health, it also gives an insane boost of movement speed, which she can use twice, AND IT STACKS! This in of itself invalidates supports such as Lulu who provide the same movement speed, just without the healing and spam-ability of Yuumi's E.

The shield: Her passive is just a better Rakan passive that provides a shield for both members (in practice because of Yuumi being untargetable). The fact she has a shield on top of her healing, being untargetable and her insane ulti is beyond me. That said, at least she has to BRIEFLY exit her host to obtain it.

So, with all of that out of the way, what about when Yuumi's heal isn't under the effect of Grevious Wounds?

Well....it's a dumb amount. It's a better Sona heal (minus the auto shield on cast) that increases the lower HP you are, and she can have 2 of them at a time, and the cooldown of it in the mid game is basically non-existent, especially if you manage it like a Riven Q and delay your casts to have it up near indefinitely. Let me put it this way, if she uses BOTH stacks of her heal she can heal someone for close to 1.3k-1.4k post Ardent+Athene's when someone is even close to 50% HP. When someone is at ~75% it still heals for close to 700. That is without accounting for the shield provided by Aery (unless she's running Comet), as well as the movement speed.

Who knew such a simple ability would be so incredibly IMBA....


Yuumi's R: Better Sona ult with a lower cooldown, way longer range, more damage and she's untargetable while casting it. Sure, her target is targetable, but what if she's inside a tank what then? Or what if she's inside a champ that can go untargetable/invisible? The risk-reward ratio is skewed due to these other factors to consider.


So basically, you have a support that's untargetable, provides insane healing, movement speed, shields, insane poke damage that is incredibly hard to dodge, has a better Sona ult.....I'm sorry, but all I can say here is that she's so overloaded she outclasses other enchanter (or enchanter-esque champs), being: Rakan Soraka Janna Lulu Taric Bard and Nami.

The fact she outclasses every other champion like her just isn't fair as the only reason to pick any enchanter not named Yuumi is, wait for it.....DING DING DING, when she's banned!


With all of that said, what are some changes I'd suggest? Well, they would be:

-Revert the nerfs to her passive, so that she actually has some incentive to exit her host(s) -Lower her base HP and HP scaling so that she's almost insta-dead when outside of her host(s), as untargetability of this nature is unhealthy and shouldn't be so forgiving -Rework her Q, or nerf all of the above aspects of it outside of MAYBE the slow amount -Remove the movement speed buff from E -Decrease the mana cost on E, but lower the healing amount -Give her W a larger cooldown so that she can't just jump in and out of targets endlessly -Increase her R's cooldown, as well as the time it takes to root a target and decrease its range

Honestly, I'd rather her being removed from the game as opposed to her being changed, but hey, here are some changes that pretty much need to happen to ensure that bot lane is no longer just "Yuumi was picked so now the game is extremely boring and frustrating", as I'm personally sick of it, and I'm sure most players are as well.

Side note: Nerf Pyke and Lux as well, Lux, Pyke and Yuumi are all destroying bot lane. Thanks.

20 Comments

NoPaxt3 votes

Yuumi cuts the number bot lane HPs in half. If you pick appropriately morg/brand/zyra Yuumi becomes useless.

Śhunpo2 votes

Morg is useless against Yuumi bar landing a binding on Yuumi's ADC, which can be avoided by simply playing in creeps or playing.....Ezreal, Kai'sa, Sivir or Lucian (all ADCs who synergise well with Yuumi). Oh, and Black Shield I guess, but that only comes into play outside of lane tbh.

Brand's ult just doesn't function in the way he wants thanks to your aforementioned statement of Yuumi cutting the bot lane numbers in half, and Yuumi can help her ADC sustain through his harass.

Zyra is countered by Yuumi+her ADC hugging tower for 10-15 minutes, at which point Yuumi outscales Zyra in terms of usefulness, and in lane Yuumi can poke Zyra down.

NoPaxt3 votes

it's about their non targeted AOE. Morgs W, Brand Q, any of Zyra's spells. You use it to safe poke the ADC from behind minions, negating Yuumi's q, and you drain her mana as she has trouble keeping up with the damage. You're only dealing with half the HP, you can push people out of lane real quick.

Baby Ghoul3 votes

My issue is her reliable early game poke is just far too oppressive for the safety she gets.

If she's going to be that safe, then she shouldn't have such a strong poke and we shouldn't have to play something just as broken to compete in lane with a champion that requires so little interaction. You don't even have to be engaged as a Yuumi player. You could be sitting there, latched onto your ADC eating bonbons and throwing out Q's.

And if your ADC is especially bad, you can latch onto another carry just as easily and the whole annoying cycle carries on. She has such a high ban rate for a good reason. She makes bot lane hell, and it's already hell down there with Pyke, Lux, and the one-sided camps.

Śhunpo2 votes

^ just this.

Playing into Yuumi feels like you're playing against an untargetable Xerath who also has healing.

Nep Bot3 votes

I was already pissed off at her release. Her trailer showed going through portals with a book that has its own will!

So, of courese she ended up with: A skillshot on Q, the new mechanic on W, a heal on E, and a bigger on ally reliant Sona Ult. This Ult is btw the ONLY THING the book is there for...

It feels like they have a group that make champions designs and another that develops kits seperately and they randomly through these things to gether.

Imagine Orianna, but her entire kits was without the use of the ball besides her ult...

FURRY V22 votes

-Revert the nerfs to her passive, so that she actually has some incentive to exit her host(s)

At least she could get mana to spam more after her nerf on her Q. I agree!

-Lower her base HP and HP scaling so that she's almost insta-dead when outside of her host(s), as untargetability of this nature is unhealthy and shouldn't be so forgiving

Yeah, she must die from a minion attack! Even the air shall burn her HP like poison. Like her health wouldn't be low enough with the fact that she can do only auto attacks once her host dies.

-Rework her Q, or nerf all of the above aspects of it outside of MAYBE the slow amount

Make it to a skillshot which scales with AD. Oh, and let her attack from host..!

-Remove the movement speed buff from E

And let's make it to be the weakest heal in the game among healers. Awesome idea. But hey, it has 2 stacks!

-Decrease the mana cost on E, but lower the healing amount

Yeah, 30 mana is horribly much. I'd suggest to change it to 5 and heal the same amount, since it heals the same amount as the mana cost. Gains a 300% boost when the host on 20% health. Well, you won't wait that amount of HP when you are on an ADC. Tanks are another story. At least the heal can be used on its full potential!

-Give her W a larger cooldown so that she can't just jump in and out of targets endlessly

Like she would do that in the middle of a fight. It would be only annoying in the early game, and she does have a 10 sec cooldown there. She reaches 0 at lvl 11.

-Increase her R's cooldown, as well as the time it takes to root a target and decrease its range

When 130 seconds and 3 hits just not enough.


By the way, as an OTP Yuumi , I'm glad too see that there is one guy who actually fears to play against a Yuumi.

Śhunpo2 votes

Most people dislike playing into her, it's not just a me thing.

FURRY V22 votes

A blue thing, true thing, you thing A whee thing, sea thing, me thing

That's the only I can say.

Śhunpo2 votes

Clearly, the term "majority" is absent in your vocabulary.

FURRY V22 votes

Your post is in negative.

By the way, I've quoted a song.

Śhunpo2 votes

Always joking, cracking up, dude, you're so lame

By the way, I've quoted a song because I'm an intellectual like yourself

Magapiff1 votes

I dont feel like Yuumi is broken or even all that much stronger thin any of the champs listed. I think the real problem is shes just really new and most of her counters are not regularly played like she didn't even get past the garden gate before Qiyana was shuffled out along with the Mord rework. Just think about this lets say Sona and Yuumi switched places, Sona is now brand new and Yuumi is now from 2010. chances are people would be saying that Sona is an unfair busted brain dead version of Yuumi.

I know this comment will get shit on

Śhunpo2 votes

Sona isn't untargetable, that's the difference.

Also what are Yuumi's counters?

Magapiff1 votes

her most played counters are Blitz and Thresh if they can catch her 85% of the time she is going to die, her less played but harder counters are Braum and Leona because they are tanky enough to take her damage, as a result, can wait out her mana in lane not to mention they can more easily interrupt Yuumi's W and ult. also Braum can just sheld block her ult he still gets snared but hardly damaged However, I have found that her strongest counter is a midlaner and that is Karthus. you see Yuumi's W isn't a free Zonya's shes not Fizz if something is going to hit her before she jumps on someone its going to hit her no matter what Karthus's ult can kill her by mid game if Yuumi is anything below full hp and doesn't have a Zonya he is going to kill her.

S tier counter Karthus

A tier counter Braum Leona

B tier counter Blitzcrank Thresh

here are also a few soft counters, they don't greatly counter her but she has a hard time fighting them. Darius his E can interrupt Yuumi's W also his passive can still kill Yuumi when she jumps on someone. Zilean his Q will still damage Yuumi even if she jumps on someone. also, he can place two Qs in Yuumi's jump path stunning her and interrupting her W, knowing the damage of Zilean this would most likely kill Yuumi. Nautilus he can pull Yuumi like Blitz and Thresh but they do it a lot better. His ult if placed on Yuumi can interrupt her W if it gets to her but if it doesn't it still damages her and whoever she jumps on. Teemo like Darius's passive his poison can still kill her even if she jumps on someone, I'm also sure he can blind her passive too.

I'm sure later down the road people will learn how to fight Yuumi then completely forget about her when the next champ is revealed its kinda how it goes, tbh she'll probably become very nichey when the dust settles in the end.

Śhunpo2 votes

The champions you've listed really aren't "counters".

Magapiff1 votes

yea they are my dude, but they aren't champions you play right? that make them not count?

Śhunpo2 votes

They are what I like to call "Silver counters", they work in Silver, but anywhere higher good luck trying to make them consistently work against a champ like Yuumi.

The tell-tale sign of this is the fact that you listed Teemo, who is never played bot lane outside of low elo (and even then he's trash there) and your only reasoning behind Teemo "countering" Yuumi is due to his poison? When she's almost always going to be sitting inside someone else?

Idk about this chief.

Magapiff1 votes

I didnt list Teemo as a bot laner I just listed him as something that can kill her when she's on someone but looking at your other comments I can tell your someone who could get what they want and still look for a way to be dissatisfied.

Śhunpo1 votes

No.....I was well happy when they fixed Kat's Shunpo (and buffering issues) and nerfed Irelia, and that was for a solid 2 patches. Also, I was happy throughout most of seasons 2-6 (except for the juggernaut patch, fuck that time period).

The problem now is that Riot throws a curveball at me every patch with a new rework, champion, item (or just re-buffing a broken champion, such as rework Irelia and Vayne) etc. being absolutely busted and extremely unfun to play against to the point where I'd rather just alt+F4 and go back to playing BlazBlue/UNIB.

Since I play her most, I'll say that Kat has counters. Yuumi, on the other hand, does not, which breaks her since there's no plausible way to counter her because of how broken her concept is. Sure, Karthus can hit her, but unless he oneshots her she's not budging. Unlike this one blue cat, you can actually hit Kat.

But that's the problem, any of her "counters", which SHOULD BE aggro supports, are invalidated by the champions she played most with, those being Ezreal, Sivir, Lucian, Caitlyn and Tristana. All of those ADCs are so safe to the point where you NEED to commit to a reckless prediction play in order to have any forms of interactivity in the lane, cause you're sure as anything not going to find it until Yuumi's ADC is dead. That then brings up the issue of, "why do I have to kill the ADC first to get to such an impactful target"?

tl;dr Untargetability is bullshit and it should have just been an ultimate on another champion instead of a basic ability on this one.

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