When is Riot going to admit that Syndra and Annie have even less counterplay than current assassins

FalconPawwwwnch·Oct 25, 2016·40 votes·2,478 views

????

70 Comments

MunchCrunchLunchOct 25, 201621 votes

riot admitted that they like annie having no counterplay other than saying away from her. which she negates with flash or bush attack every now and then

KynamiOct 26, 20162 votes

Or you could adjust your build to make it significantly harder for her to successfully burst you. And then when she goes roaming to attempt getting fed... do something about it. But basically 24 MR from runes with scaling health plus a fairly early negatron and barrier summoner makes for a sad Annie. Just farm what you can safely because outside of a multi-man gank/dive or you way overstaying she'll not have kill pressure.

And as long as you do follow up on their roam attempts and can pick up kills/assists they'll find themselves worse off for having left lane.

DevlinCrowOct 26, 20166 votes

She's insanely immobile too I honestly think she's nothing to complain about

CerealBoxOfDoomOct 25, 201612 votes

why would they "admit" it?

Are you saying they've ever denied it?

IPromiseTomorrowOct 26, 20162 votes

I don't remember the last time Riot talked about "it". That may be the reason why he's posting this.

CerealBoxOfDoomOct 26, 20162 votes

There's no reason to.

There's a kraken attacking the ship There's space aliens with anal probes on the way There's a ghost pirate also after your booty on board

That leak is the least of your problems on this ship. They know its there they just don't care right now

Sahn UzalOct 26, 20164 votes

Gangplank Eats an Orange

Now let's fix that leak.

Nagoh ShanOct 25, 20165 votes

Probably when it becomes remotely true.

Currently isn't,however.

IvanniteOct 25, 20164 votes

They do need to go back to the nerf they had on Syndra's E in my opinion and make it smaller width if she can now grab 3 spheres with her new W. Just provides too much control on her stun imo.

Vistha KaiOct 25, 201615 votes

You mean that E nerf which made the ability completely non-functioning?

Yeah, let's do that.

Gameplay and Balance sure is a great place to draw inspiration from.

IvanniteOct 25, 20162 votes

Well besides her damage being a tier above others, the change they made to the W overhauled her E with a half lane-wide stun if played properly, which would nearly make her impossible to gank. I've been playing/maining Syndra in ranked for a long time now, so my opinions aren't for just "giving her the nerf bat" but for making her a more reasonable champ. Because honestly it gets to a point at times where I feel bad for playing Syndra because I can just do so much more than them, and there is nothing they can do about it.

Maybe not nerf her E back to what it was, but make it a reasonable size, which since I'm comfortable and confident with my Syndra, I personally think reverting the E would be fine, and really wouldn't change my gameplay. It would however make me have to choose a primary target to stun rather than just press W and pick up all my orbs and easily stun anything that is chasing me without having to really be precise at all about it.

Vistha KaiOct 25, 20166 votes

You fail to notice that the problem lies exactly in changes made in the MYMU update.

The stun is already the size of the sphere, making it smaller would lead to situations where a sphere would physically pass through a unit and not stun them.

The thing is that MYMU removed like half of Syndra's skillcap and difficulty.

For example before to get a lane-wide stun you had to open up with your ult on the closest enemy unit, most likely a tank, always making it a meaningful decision. Before to get a 7-sphere ult, you had to juggle spheres for like 10 seconds and then you only had a window of 2 seconds tops to ult, before spheres would start expiring, which required good timing and gave the enemy team enough counterplay to justify an ability dealing even over 2000 points of damage to a single target.

Trying to balance her around those cancerous gimmicks would only lead to, for example, her not having any kind of early game presence.

Every problem with Syndra right now would be completely obliterated if her MYMU passive changes were reverted.

This is what you should ask for.

Big LincolnOct 25, 20164 votes

Riot thinks Annie having spells that are targeted or instant AoEs is good for the game. they like that aspect of her, because she's a """"necessary evil""""

R FLASH XDOct 26, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=N6oYAN4N,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2016-10-25T21:31:51.800+0000)

Riot thinks Annie having spells that are targeted or instant AoEs is good for the game. they like that aspect of her, because she's a """"necessary evil""""

No evil is necessary

lolipopevelynnOct 26, 20164 votes

people are really bitching about syndra now? her winrate is 48%...

wow, i hate worlds. the sheep really come out like cockroaches during this month.

Paladin 0f LifeOct 25, 20163 votes

Sandra yes. Annie? Just bait stun.

ViiLLAiNOct 25, 20169 votes

[{quoted}](name=Paladin 0f Life,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=N6oYAN4N,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-10-25T18:01:33.433+0000)

Sandra yes. Annie? Just bait stun.

god damn u spell check

Asayake 5150glowOct 25, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Paladin 0f Life,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=N6oYAN4N,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-10-25T18:01:33.433+0000)

Sandra yes. Annie? Just bait stun.

Late game if she gets the stun, she gets the kill. -_-

MunchCrunchLunchOct 26, 20163 votes

umm. annie with dorans ring if she gets a stun she gets a kill.

GULAG 4 UOct 25, 20163 votes

Nice try trying to bait an instant stun my friend.

WELL MEME'D!

AirKingNeoOct 26, 20161 votes

Instant? The mage update gave her cast times.

GULAG 4 UOct 26, 20161 votes

Good luck going shit about that point and click ult/Q my friend ;-P!

AirKingNeoOct 26, 20162 votes

Ult is an AoE that can easily be flashed out of. Q still has a cast time and not very fast travel speed. Plenty of reaction time.

GULAG 4 UOct 26, 20162 votes

Still point and click and follows you and no her ult isn't flashable unless you see her ult animation and you have 4 pings.

AirKingNeoOct 26, 20162 votes

I have 30-40 ping and I have plently of time to flash her ult. Maybe people just need to be able to see faster.

Her Q still can be flashed to get out of range of her chaining abilities. It doesn't deal a ton of damage so I'm not sure where this "Annie is OP" idea is coming from. I play Kayle, a champion Annie hard counters and I can deal with her decently.

GULAG 4 UOct 26, 20162 votes

where did anybody here say annie op?

AirKingNeoOct 26, 20162 votes

Have you been reading these boards?

GULAG 4 UOct 26, 20162 votes

Less counterplay does not mean OP?

KetiOct 25, 20163 votes

Depends on the assassin tbh.

GreenBoÍOct 25, 20163 votes

Idk why people are raging so much bout syndra? I agree she has kinda too width E stun, but we actually need burst ap mages... Not only giga roaming aoe ones(A-Sol, Taliyah)... I mean Veigar can 1 shot everyone too soo? Anivia too, with only RE, not forgeting Lux tho, which passive +R doess 1 k dmg... Syndra needs some preperation before just pressing R...

NineTailedMysticOct 25, 20161 votes

What, Q W Q R?

VerdadeOct 25, 20163 votes

It's all about people being sheeps Vel'koz deals more damage at longer range, large part of his damage is TRUE DAMAGE and all his abilities are AOE. But in casual's eyes Syndra is OP while VK is balanced.

Literally the only thing Syndra has over VK is larger area on her stun

TurquoiseYoshiOct 26, 20161 votes

Syndra's ult is also point-and-click, while Vel's ult is a skillshot, making Syndra more reliable most of the time. I'd also have to do some research, but I think that current item metas and the champions' scalings are better for Syndra, despite Vel having a stronger kit on paper.

VerdadeOct 26, 20163 votes

VK has 1505+2.55AP magical damage AND 338+1.0AP as true damage, which is 1843+3.55AP with Q and R having 1550 range, WE has 900-ish range. And that's with only one W used, as he has 2 charges. If you used both W charges you'd have 2287+4.35AP with LARGE portion of this damage being true damage.

Syndra has 1980+3.45AP (with 7 spheres!) with over half of her damage locked in ulti that has 750 range AT MAX RANK

One of them has superior damage, range and all his damage is AOE, the other one is played because "MUH SYNDRA". VK can project half of his dmg at 1500y, Syndra can't break 1000y range. Syndra requires setup to do decent damage with her ult, VK doesn't.

RavenMagusOct 26, 20164 votes

Vel'koz is absolutely ridiculous and does way too much damage. We're lucky he's not popular or FOTM, really.

VerdadeOct 26, 20161 votes

He won't be FOTM because he's hard to play. Not mechanically, but tactically as NEEDS to rely on vision and positioning, meaning he's unusable for most of the player base. FOTM players can learn how to abuse Zed, Lee Sin, Yasuo etc., because they're just mechanically challenging, but Vel'koz requires decision making that can't be learned easily.

If you look at all FOTM champions, they all have safety nets while Vel doesn't. You can be 40/0 and still die to 0/40 champion because you screw up and miss your stuff/get gutted due to lack of vision

RavenMagusOct 26, 20161 votes

Well if Azir can become FOTM, so can Vel'koz!

... But then again, Azir also has that thing where he can dash over two walls to absolute safety whenever he wants, so that's a fair point, yeah.

I guess that's why Orianna never really became FOTM outside the pro scene either, even though she's had a ridiculous kit since forever.

BoulderoxOct 26, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Idk why people are raging so much bout syndra? I agree she has kinda too width E stun, but we actually need burst ap mages... Not only giga roaming aoe ones(A-Sol, Taliyah)... I mean Veigar can 1 shot everyone too soo? Anivia too, with only RE, not forgeting Lux tho, which passive +R doess 1 k dmg... Syndra needs some preperation before just pressing R...

theres a difference between burst and point and click death... Xerath has burst, but is all skillshots but when you have the ability to automatically proc your full power ult by carrying 3 balls and stunning, it is too much. and Annie needs to have her fucking passive deteriorate, because she can just sit back and wait till you are in her kill radius and pop. Riot wants champs to have high points of power, and if they don't capitalize on it, they lose it, but annie allows to keep it.

GreenBoÍOct 26, 20161 votes

{quoted}

theres a difference between burst and point and click death... has burst, but is all skillshots but when you have the ability to automatically proc your full power ult by carrying 3 balls and stunning, it is too much. and needs to have her fucking passive deteriorate, because she can just sit back and wait till you are in her kill radius and pop. Riot wants champs to have high points of power, and if they don't capitalize on it, they lose it, but annie allows to keep it.

I didnt mean Xerath exactly... Since hes Artilery mage he is supposed to stay back spam his skills.... I actually ment those who just need point and click... Like again Veig or Anivia...

MohawkBirdOct 25, 20163 votes

Can people please stop bitching about Syndra? She has more than enough viable counterplay. I guess Annie is understandable.

NineTailedMysticOct 25, 20161 votes

Sorry, Q W E R isn't very easy to deal with.

Chembaron YamadaOct 26, 20161 votes

If she has so much viable counterplay: how do you explain she is so oppressive in worlds right now? These guys should know these counterplay tactics and have the skill to execute these. She still has a pick/ban-rate of 97,2% and a winrate of 62,5%.

GiveMeUrMilkOct 26, 20163 votes

None of her strongest counters are on the lcs meta right now. No team in worlds would run fizz or zed just to. Eat syndra when they could play something like orianna who brings so much more to the team.

Chembaron YamadaOct 26, 20161 votes

"None of her strongest counters are on the lcs meta right now" "something like orianna" Orianna got played in LCS, so this argument doesn't seem that valid to me. :/ Especially since orianna never got picked into syndra...

GiveMeUrMilkOct 26, 20162 votes

I think you misunderstood me. I meant why would they pick zed over Orianna. Yes, zed counters syndra. But he is not good for the strategies the teams are using. Therefore, her counters are not being played in the LCS meta.

AhristocatsOct 26, 20163 votes

careful op, you're going to get hated by syndra mains keeping you in check and telling you to dodge the stun

that's right, dodge a stun that travels 1100 range in 2500 units/sec ( less than 0.5 sec)

Irelia BotOct 26, 20161 votes

I tried to dodge the pink ward

It didn't do jack shit.

Ungrateful ThugOct 26, 20162 votes

Didn't they nerf TF's gold card because he was oppressively zoning people whenever it was up?

Why does Annie get to do this on her passive? And she can hold it for as long as she wants?

RavenMagusOct 26, 20161 votes

She can't waveclear while holding onto her passive. Most mages can outrange her and waveclear; if she is positioning forward she is an easy gank since she's not clearing the waves doing it.