@Riot Repertoire Still averaging 6k dark harvest damage per aram. Its not debatable, its too much.

Professor Ward··4 votes·1,851 views

While it may be aram, and it may not be an auto win on every champ, the champs who do use it well shine a little too brightly with the rune. A casual play through will net you 5k damage dealt from the rune no problem. 7k if you get a lil sweaty.

Its making sheen users (and even a few champs who cant afford to dip into sheen cost or stat wise) shine like a diamond early, and even brighter lategame and throughout teamfights due to dh reset ease.

I will say Its manageable if targeted and played correctly(already more effort than 90% of interactions), or into much stronger comps.(Basically anything is going to lose here) ** But at similar skill/team strength levels , the dark havest user is going to be leaps and bounds stronger on the champs that can make use of this.**

Its a noob trap on a ton of champs, but its being taken on everything due to how well it works on some

Aram Siege Minion mechanics (one offset per wave so youre never lacking a stack) and common aram action, make for extreme stack numbers that were never intended to be touched.

TLDR: **A niche, stack oriented, late game scaling jungle rune(insert laugh emote) is turning on in aram so hard thats its become a more general sheen that doesnt require an ability cast, and is both infinitely stacking, and freely obtainable at level 3. ** As said above, there is no debate, its too much.

24 Comments

Pika Fox2 votes

I disagree; there is room for debate, because its good on a lot of champs in aram that generally arent the greatest or need the quick boost in damage to stay relevant in aram else the mages will just zone them out forever and wipe the floor with them.

Professor Ward3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MwasFOER,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-05-03T23:27:21.530+0000)

I disagree; there is room for debate, because its good on a lot of champs in aram that generally arent the greatest or need the quick boost in damage to stay relevant in aram else the mages will just zone them out forever and wipe the floor with them.

i agree on a few champs like graves( who is still stronger than he really should be with the rune), then theres champs like Sona and Ziggs who have held the aram titles basically forever, almost always sitting at around 70% winrate and who both use this rune to great success, especially sona.

The rune is ardent sensor tier in aram at this point on the champs that use it.

Pika Fox1 votes

Sona and ziggs would probably prefer other runes though, as the sorc tree is just far better for them, and they dont need the damage it supplies.

Professor Ward1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MwasFOER,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-04T00:32:03.222+0000)

Sona and ziggs would probably prefer other runes though, as the sorc tree is just far better for them, and they dont need the damage it supplies.

5k damage from the keystone alone, and the ability to still dip into the sorc or inspiration tree makes it a no contest really, especially for sona. Who can hit 7k per game from it no problem. Youre not going to get this value from any item in the game i dont see why you would take any other keystone on them.

Pika Fox1 votes

Theyd both much prefer to go comet. Ziggs doesnt want to get into auto range, and sona is missing out on other options for CDR or utility that would be much more beneficial to her, as a lot of what makes her powerful is the utility she brings via healing and auras. Especially on ARAM, getting close enough to auto often on either will be quickly punished if the other team has a decent comp.

Youre also already using 2 of the strongest champs in all of aram as an argument. If your argument is "My team already has top tier picks" and put them into a situation in which the enemy team cant punish them just due to sheer teamcomp differences and not being randomed equally good picks, dark harvest is irrelevant.

Professor Ward1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MwasFOER,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-04T21:56:56.509+0000)

Theyd both much prefer to go comet. Ziggs doesnt want to get into auto range, and sona is missing out on other options for CDR or utility that would be much more beneficial to her, as a lot of what makes her powerful is the utility she brings via healing and auras. Especially on ARAM, getting close enough to auto often on either will be quickly punished if the other team has a decent comp.

Youre also already using 2 of the strongest champs in all of aram as an argument. If your argument is "My team already has top tier picks" and put them into a situation in which the enemy team cant punish them just due to sheer teamcomp differences and not being randomed equally good picks, dark harvest is irrelevant.

Understand that aram and rift are two very different machines...

First off any decent ziggs will be using his auto attack passive whenever possible, it hits hard alone, harder with lich, and like a truck with harvest. A ziggs that doesnt get his autos off is a ziggs that isnt playing correctly, there are always options for safe autos in arams.

Secondly sona and ziggs both will still EASILY hit 40% cdr with plenty of mana as this rune is not affecting your items AT ALL. Still running lich, still running ludens, still running transcendence. 40% cdr and plenty of mana after 2 items.

Also youve stated healing in a talk about arams.....** Healing power is halved in aram and is a huge risk to build on any champion.** Dipping into utility with sona is not what carries her to her 70% winrate. Its her ability to hit for 80% on any non tank champion in the game in less than a second.

I will agree however that i stated the two strongest champs in the game. But its not just them. And the fact is, they didnt need anything extra

Obviously you havent played arams as much as i (cant blame you im nearing 5000 on this account alone.) but you just arent grasping core aram mechanics here.

Pika Fox1 votes

"Any decent ziggs will be auto attacking whenever possible" And any decent opponent will punish you hardcore for even attempting to get that close as a zone control mage squishy with very limited options for mobility which is also on a delay. You dont just get to auto attack on every champion for free, and ziggs isnt known for his long ranged autos.

And youre giving up another 5%.

Healing in arams is cut, but still powerful. Sonas damage alone is laughable at best. She has limited range and has the defenses of a minion, if that (hell, at one point in history had less resists than a minion does base). Her damage isnt what nets her those wins, her free utility that is balanced around SR does. Do you have any idea how much free healing, shielding team boosting damage and movespeed she has for all 5 members of her team for free just by existing? Sona doesnt get nerfed because her Q and passive does damage, her auras make sona. Aram puts sona in a spot where shes always getting max value out of her auras.

Harvest doesnt help them any. At best you could argue that it makes the games where their opponents have suboptimal randoms worse as they cant punish them for the clear mistakes they will be making just due to tier differentials, which has nothing to do with harvest.

Professor Ward1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MwasFOER,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-04T22:15:19.633+0000)

"Any decent ziggs will be auto attacking whenever possible" And any decent opponent will punish you hardcore for even attempting to get that close as a zone control mage squishy with very limited options for mobility which is also on a delay. You dont just get to auto attack on every champion for free, and ziggs isnt known for his long ranged autos.

And youre giving up another 5%.

Healing in arams is cut, but still powerful. Sonas damage alone is laughable at best. She has limited range and has the defenses of a minion, if that (hell, at one point in history had less resists than a minion does base). Her damage isnt what nets her those wins, her free utility that is balanced around SR does. Do you have any idea how much free healing, shielding team boosting damage and movespeed she has for all 5 members of her team for free just by existing? Sona doesnt get nerfed because her Q and passive does damage, her auras make sona. Aram puts sona in a spot where shes always getting max value out of her auras.

Harvest doesnt help them any. At best you could argue that it makes the games where their opponents have suboptimal randoms worse as they cant punish them for the clear mistakes they will be making just due to tier differentials, which has nothing to do with harvest.

dude you have no idea what youre talking about. Laughable dmage on sona?

Will you please join up in a custom with me? Just so i can show you her damage? Please im not even being an asshole.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fo4q8bC1KNU

This video while kinda old, is from a 10k dark harvest game at 17 mins. WHILE BEHIND KILLS!!!!!! YOU WILL NEVER EVEN GET 1/4 OF THAT WITH ANY OTHER RUNE IN THE GAME. ** Comet for instance, would have went off once for 1/8 damage if youre lucky enough for it to even hit.**

80% twitch in less than a second, 90% vayne in less than a second, 60% corki in less than a second. All while being impossible to miss.

You have obviously no understanding of sonas powerchords, sheen, and the damage she can deal.

Another video, this one is around 75-80% one shot, and again its not even a skillshot. Q-auto is all you need. Ashe has literally 0% chance of trading anything with her here, or dodging.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mb7Akyqjp7E

Another video showing how nice those auras are on her allies- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tb-ZBWM_EOA

One more with some nice burst going on-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfiBN8arFGY Nothing about the damage shes dealing in those videos is laughable.

"its her auras" "its her healing"

No, its her 80% oneshots on anything that isnt tank.

-Im done arguing youre obviously misinformed, arguing to argue, or flat out wrong. Sona hits harder than 90% of the burstmage and assassin metagame in aram, and does it without a skillshot whatsoever.

Pika Fox1 votes

If sona is doing 80% of your hp, shes dead. She has one of the lowest base stats in the game for hp, ar and mr, and the range on her q and auto are both not all that great. If you arent punishing her late game for such a major fuckup, either their teamcomp outclasses yours severely, or they outskill you.

If sonas damage alone made her top tier, fizz would be leagues better than she ever could be, as he has more damage and safety with a similar build.

my waifu Taliyah1 votes

So funny and predictable. Dark Harvestism, my prediction that every aram player's opinion of Dark Harvest will evolve.

Your position 2 months ago: stage 1 of Dark Harvestism.

Your position now: Stage 2 of Dark Harvestism

Pika Fox2 votes

Its still not all that great. Certain champs that need the scaling damage can use it, but thats largely it. Most find better use elsewhere. Its fun for the memes on damage champs, but thats largely it.

my waifu Taliyah1 votes

Dark Harvest is actually better than Electrocute early game. Wave spawn timer is 25 seconds, so you'll get a Dark Harvest proc ready every 25 seconds. So Electrocute is 70 base damage on a 47 sec cooldown, while Dark Harvest is 45 base damage on a 25 sec cooldown. Also consider that it's way easier to proc Dark Harvest (auto once) than Electrocute (attack 3 times). Also this is the worst case scenario from Dark Harvest, in that no one from either team dies, so you'll have to completely rely on the stacks from the cannon minions.

Pika Fox2 votes

Ok? Theres more than just electrocute and domination.

my waifu Taliyah1 votes

Like what?

Pika Fox2 votes

Like literally every single other rune tree and keustone in the game?

my waifu Taliyah1 votes

No, not really, most of them are not usable

The rest of the keystones are not really viable, and here is a quick run down of why.

Too long cooldown for the game mode: Electrocute, Predator, Aftershock, Guardian

Directly competing with Dark Harvest: Press the Attack, Lethal Tempo, Conqueror, Electrocute,Grasp, Klepto, Glacial Augment

Additional notes: You don’t want to attack the same target 3 times in a row.Conqueror and Grasp is a lot of effort to have the proc ready, and it falls off fast.

Simply sucks in the game mode: Phase Rush , Unsealed Spellbook

That leaves you with Dark Harvest, Fleet Footwork, Arcane Comet, and Summoner Aerie.

Pika Fox2 votes

Predator is still good on hec/ww, aftershock is still one of the best picks for thresh/leo as is guardian on support tanks no idea wtf youre smoking.

You need to remember youre forced into domination with a dom keystone, and that tree sucks for a lot of champs.

Professor Ward1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MwasFOER,comment-id=000000010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-04T13:55:22.011+0000)

Predator is still good on hec/ww, aftershock is still one of the best picks for thresh/leo as is guardian on support tanks no idea wtf youre smoking.

You need to remember youre forced into domination with a dom keystone, and that tree sucks for a lot of champs.

predator will never even come close to competing with dark harvest, you 100% dont know how to properly utilize this rune or you wouldnt be typing this.

Pika Fox2 votes

Movespeed directly impacts both ww and hec's abilities. Movespeed on its own is a powerful stat when used properly, especially for melee champions with limited options for engage otherwise.

Professor Ward1 votes

[{quoted}](name=my waifu Taliyah,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MwasFOER,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2018-05-04T03:13:02.026+0000)

So funny and predictable. Dark Harvestism, my prediction that every aram player's opinion of Dark Harvest will evolve.

Your position 2 months ago: stage 1 of Dark Harvestism.

Your position now: Stage 2 of Dark Harvestism

this is probably my 5th or 6th post since release on the rune in terms of ARAM. Anything that even looks like sheen is dangerous to aram.

my waifu Taliyah1 votes

The problem is not that it looks like Sheen (a perfectly fine item). It looks too much like Mejai's (an item that have been banned since back when aram was a custom game mode in 2010)

Dead flag blues1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MwasFOER,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-05-03T23:27:21.530+0000)

I disagree; there is room for debate, because its good on a lot of champs in aram that generally arent the greatest or need the quick boost in damage to stay relevant in aram else the mages will just zone them out forever and wipe the floor with them.

It's literally good on everyone. I even pick it on Fiddlesticks and can still shine with it...

Pika Fox1 votes

And i can run predator on everyone and do good. Doesnt mean its good or optimal. Fiddles would mich prefer comet.

Rysophage1 votes

why play aram when you can play low elo solo Q? same shit.

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