Do you think Riot cares about player opinions for reworks?

nm1010·Dec 27, 2016·12 votes·556 views

I am just curious on the consensus here because after seeing 2 malzahar reworks (one that I enjoyed personally and the new one with shitty voidlings) and feeling like Riot does not care for feedback too much anymore. No names, but a rioter said everything in 6.23 outside of the 3 hp voidling system was a buff. This includes the shorter range for voidling ms increase vs targets with malefic visions on them, they split on hitting champs for 3 seconds from 8 previously (and don't split on minion kills), they don't gain attack speed when 3 are out anymore, they make last hitting more of a bitch since they don't execute minions anymore, and you technically doubled the time for the full w burst since it is an ammo system now with the same old cd.

I mean in what way are these buffs? Anyway just comment/vote on whether you feel like riot cares for player feedback on design choices.

16 Comments

Jinzo TorranceDec 27, 20168 votes

No they don't care at all, Morde rework complaints ignored until 100% pick/ban of him at world, Brand mains ignored after 2 day from Q&A for his rework and Vel'koz Mains ignored too about their concern, Caitlyn and Poppy not being hotfixed, the garbage called assassin rework; but why do you think Voidling having 3 health is a nerf? Their damage got double in exchange for it and for some champs it's difficult to kill them without using their main spell, there are only a few exception to them, like Jayce melee W which instakills them pretty much.

{quoted} they make last hitting more of a bitch since they don't execute minions anymore

C'mon man, if you put E on a minion they still do 300% more damage regardless of their health now, last hitting them is far far easier.

nm1010Dec 27, 20164 votes

His words not mine on the 3 hp being a nerf, I personally believe the lower time for voidlings to split/them being much slower is actually what makes them feel like they die to everything now. Damage may have doubled but dps went waaaay down since they split less and no longer gain attack speed, they also have a much harder time sticking to targets due to the movespeed towards malefic visions going from any range down to 600.

You know that last hitting and pushing are different things right? I can push faster with 300% damage (not really since almost anyone can kill them before they get 3 autos off unless you use both w charges), but I would much rather have an execute on low minions to guarantee they don't live with 3 hp. The fact his average cs has dropped a good bit over thousands of games is pretty indicative of the new voidlings being worse at csing.

lightdragoon88Dec 30, 20161 votes

They may do "double damage" but they attack speed been cut in half. You would be lucky if they could even get 1 attack off before they die. The only way they do more damage than before is if you pop both Voilding ammo and then immanently ult the enemy while they are standing right next to you.

RalanrDec 27, 20165 votes

They do care. That doesn't mean player feedback is always valid.

nm1010Dec 27, 20162 votes

Well out of millions of players of course there will be unreasonable players. What I don't expect is a rioter stating 6.23 was this conglomerate of buffs for Malzahar when it very clearly was not. Remind me have they said anything about the 46% winrate akali and zed either? They just went through with their "reworks" and should be in a "healthy" state to see buffs or nerfs like other champions right?

Akali is SO HOTDec 30, 20162 votes

Rickless said that Akali is looking good in higher elos so she won't be getting changes anytime soon. No idea where he's getting his stats from though. 10/10

nm1010Dec 30, 20161 votes

She has a 50.6% right now in Diamond+, but he conveniently ignored the swing from 46-50ish everyday. Seems like it is just akali mains fluctuating from week to week.

midnight oil24Dec 27, 20162 votes

I just feel like these guys know better than us about what's healthy for the game.

nm1010Dec 27, 20162 votes

I firmly believe in reasoning and evidence or blind trust. Malzahar needed to be nerfed 100% for sure, did he need this weird mini-rework that made his minions feel like ass when the goal of the original rework was to focus his damage on his minions? Absolutely not.

KyrrionDec 30, 20162 votes

They care to an extent.

Riot rarely, if ever, changes their intended design based on feedback. Once they find what they find to be an agree-able direction, it's going to happen. They won't entirely uproot a kit they just recreated - they may make minor tweaks and improvements but the final product will still be what they imagined.

Like with Garen. Last I remember hearing, no one was really fond of the Villain mechanic (I still personally feel it's a lazy cop-out that's just a band-aid covering issues as old as Garen himself). Yet it's still here and eating up a portion of Garen's power budget. And just recently, they gave him an armor reduction mechanic - which again doesn't actually address Garen's base issues and is just another coverup.

If you have a suggestion about how a specific mechanic can be tweaked that improves gameplay, they'll listen and likely consider it. If you're telling them that their new kit direction is horribly flawed, they'll ignore it. Now if that's right or wrong, I don't know. It's their game, they know a lot about it, and it's not like they don't extensively test things internally - but they also did introduce Aatrox at a time where in lane sustain was through the roof and highly problematic. And released Kalista when mobility creep was front and center as a big community issue.

I sometimes miss the days of 2012 when there was a new champ every other week. Sure, the kits were more on the simplistic side but rarely was there ever absurd crap of new mechanics that end up hamstringing the champion in the long run (Tahm Benched easily comes to mind). If anything, those champions ended up being on the weaker side. But eh, that's just how I remember it so I could be a little off.

nm1010Dec 30, 20162 votes

My problem is they went out of their way to invent a weird solution to this problem of Malzahar doing drag and baron too easy. They could've easily made baron/dragon ignore voidlings and/or take less damage. Instead of that straight forward solution they decided a mini-rework was necessary.

I will say that they fixed baron AoE killing all voidlings immediately and that is at least a start on fixing this. Still sucks that have almost no ms in fights and lower splitting overall, but this has made me ok with picking him again (my 3rd option, but I still pick him).

The Great DivideDec 30, 20162 votes

Oh, you mean Fizz Enthusiast? The one who made a huge thread that said "We like Anivia changes," and then never replied to a single thread from Anivia Mains explaining why they felt the situation wasn't as peachy? That rioter?

Honestly, I'd rather have radio silence from rioters than them coming and patting themselves on the back by posting, but not actually engaging in the community or answering qualms and questions from players.

nm1010Dec 30, 20162 votes

That'd be the one, we got a response though he said he was "irritated" that so many people agreed about Malzahar being worse off with the voidling changes and that we didn't know what we were talking about because everyone stopped playing Malzahar 1 patch before all the changes. So clearly there wasn't a problem with the change and we all just don't know anything.

The Great DivideDec 30, 20163 votes

I think playrate declines should mean a lot more than they do. Because even if the rework/changes were healthy (which in Anivia's case is somewhat arguable, and even moreso in Malz's), if people stop playing the champ, obviously something is fundamentally amiss with the playstyle post-change.

But what do I know - I'm just a salty Anivia/old-Malz main (and sadly, both of their changes have led me to look to other champs)

VoraciousXDec 31, 20161 votes

I think they do listen, which is why all assassins had their damage windows widened. I actually think the only reason they did that in the first place was because of all the boards comments.