Dragon and baron oneshot voidlings now which takes away a ton of his team utility. I understand doing less damage to objectives was probably one of the goals of this change, but now he can barely contribute which is a huge nerf compared to his prechange state. I would even be ok with them tanking 3 hits for consistency because you can space out w casts now, but he really needs something.
RiotNot Surrendering15 votesGenerally felt that being able to get 6 shots from Baron/Dragon (8 seconds) redirected to Voidlings is a good out of class strength for a mage and reducing his ability to solo dragon was an unfortunate consequence of creating a charge model (double Voidling production rate).
Was unable to make his jungle work without making the voidlings insane against objectives (unless they get one shot).
nm10105 votesSo it is unlikely that he will get any of his objective power back even if he turns out to be weak after this?
rtbf7610927125 votesso he is actually just malza press r now?
worse wave clear, worse at taking objectives, shield was previously nerfed. Ya he makes voidlings at twice the rate but since you can't build them up for your ult on minions, less attack your target when you ult
I also dont get how the patch notes made his damage was "confusing" seeing how it is exactly the same now as it was before (voidlings attack you = more voidlings... was this ever difficult to understand?)
Skyroar14 votes[{quoted}](name=Fizz Enthusiast,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JqqluM9Y,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2016-11-23T01:21:26.227+0000)
Generally felt that being able to get 6 shots from Baron/Dragon (8 seconds) redirected to Voidlings is a good out of class strength for a mage and reducing his ability to solo dragon was an unfortunate consequence of creating a charge model (double Voidling production rate).
Was unable to make his jungle work without making the voidlings insane against objectives (unless they get one shot).
My biggest problem with new Malz changes is how weak voidlings are to AoE.
For example, I chased a 40% health rengar into my jungle early game, and spend my precious 80 mana to spawn two voidlings and punish him for his bad decision making. That Rengar pressed W. All voidlings instant killed. That's it. We pressed W and my entire combo was ruined. I had to run back to tower and even flash to survive.
So, I later ganked a Nasus in top lane. Used my W twice to prepare for my combo. Oops, Nasus had used his circle skill against my top ally. Voidlings instant killed. Accidently. I had to run back to tower, and then back to mid, and it was all a big waste of time, farm and mana.
Cosmic Warper5 votesMy biggest problem with new Malz changes is how weak voidlings are to AoE.
For example, I chased a 40% health rengar into my jungle early game, and spend my precious 80 mana to spawn two voidlings and punish him for his bad decision making. That Rengar pressed W. All voidlings instant killed. That's it. We pressed W and my entire combo was ruined. I had to run back to tower and even flash to survive.
So, I later ganked a Nasus in top lane. Used my W twice to prepare for my combo. Oops, Nasus had used his circle skill against my top ally. Voidlings instant killed. Accidently. I had to run back to tower, and then back to mid, and it was all a big waste of time, farm and mana.
Yeah AoE one shots voidlings now. It's pretty pathetic, especially in teamfights
DarkRitual2 votesGlad the full-ap mage can't solo baron anymore.
Odriew2 votesThe problem was you 1) ruined his scaling in the name of consistency in the rework and 2) took away the only scaling he had left in this patch, since voidlings die to anyone with either attack speed or aoe, which is virtually every mid laner. IE you took away all the 'strengths' you keep talking about and didn't give him anything in return.
Odriew2 votesPS if you keep locking scaling behind minigames for more champions, people are just going to stop playing.
Ez dePaz1 votesHave you considered moving back to big Voidlings but still keeping them at W? The small ones are as said very inconsistent in their damage. More often than not they just die to random AoE and if they don't die they eat people alive. The new Malz feels like I'm supposed to just press all my buttons at once and hope that enemy is stupid enough to not drop 1 AoE on the voidlings.
Baron of Bread5 votesWell, since I only played him jungle I guess I will never play him again.
They had done so well with keeping the Jungle AD Malzahar play style, it is a shame to see them kill it.
Eedat5 votesProblem was his team could do baron and dragon without taking any damage after like 30% CDR. That was the broken part that they needed to change
RavenMagus2 votesAt 40% CDR you could actually solo baron with him. I agree it was a bit much, though I'm not sure that such an extreme change is good.
Oh well, plenty of other mages that can't do much damage to objectives too, I guess.
nm10103 votesThey nerfed his shoving and 1v1 burst damage. He really doesn't have much else outside of ganking with r or setting up for ganks with it. He can't really do much by himself except farm (which is harder to do now). Letting him keep objective mage as an identity would have been really nice.
RavenMagus3 votesSo I actually just played a game as Malz. (previously was rank 6 mastery on him before the change)
I did absolutely ridiculous amounts of damage at level 2, almost one shot the enemy laner from full health with W+E; they escaped with flash and 50 hp remaining.
After that... yeah, I felt the wave pushing was much weaker, and he went from being top tier objective taking to being near useless on them, just as you said.
I felt my teamfight and champion damage was pretty good still, but it is strange that they decided to go with such a huge nerf to his objective control.
nm10106 votesI mean if someone walks up to you and lets you e-w-w and stands on them that would work. Outside of very new players or people who aren't familiar with his voidlings I don't see that happening. The same thing could be done with prechange malz too, anyone who ran at you and ignored e-w would almost die to voidlings.
RavenMagus3 votesYou can double-W really fast. The first couple times I used my W, I actually thought it just used both charges with one cast. If you hit E, by the time you even finish the casting animation both voidlings can be out already.
It's actually a bit better in the burst territory, especially in the first few seconds when you're holding them down with ult - you get two voidlings immediately, which means you start off twice as strong and propagate them twice as fast. It's after a few seconds - when your new ones stop multiplying but the old ones would have kept going and you no longer get the attack speed buff for them - that your damage actually starts to fall off compared to before.
Oh, and smiting the first voidling to stop the whole swarm isn't really a thing anymore, since you get a second one, so that's a thing I guess.
He's honestly still fine... I think. Maybe. Time will tell. Maybe I'll start leveling my Q second again and use that to nuke waves just like old times.
Cosmic Warper1 votesYou can double-W really fast. The first couple times I used my W, I actually thought it just used both charges with one cast. If you hit E, by the time you even finish the casting animation both voidlings can be out already.
It's actually a bit better in the burst territory, especially in the first few seconds when you're holding them down with ult - you get two voidlings immediately, which means you start off twice as strong and propagate them twice as fast. It's after a few seconds - when your new ones stop multiplying but the old ones would have kept going and you no longer get the attack speed buff for them - that your damage actually starts to fall off compared to before.
Oh, and smiting the first voidling to stop the whole swarm isn't really a thing anymore, since you get a second one, so that's a thing I guess.
He's honestly still fine... I think. Maybe. Time will tell. Maybe I'll start leveling my Q second again and use that to nuke waves just like old times.
You're supposed to level Q second. The main Issue i have with this malz is that his voidlings only multiply if they have more than 9s remaining. That's only a 3s window to spawn voidlings and after that point that's it, if your voidlings die to wander too far off then most of your damage output is gone.
RavenMagus2 votesLeveling W second was pretty good on post-rework Malz, since the voidlings did tons o' damage, so you only really needed the Q for silencing.
But yeah, while I still think they're actually better burst damage now in the first couple seconds, they're a lot less reliable overall.
rtbf761092711 votesya literally the only thing you can do with him better is lv2 all in, and just wait until people figure it out and dont get close enough to let you can e.
you team fight damage is often going to be way lower than before, the voidlings are much easier to kill with aoe now
agbudar7 votes
says HI his passive proc's on baron and dragon making him exceptionally good for taking those objectives.
heu hue heu im a mage hurrdurr
tibbers anyone?
meet the donger
yea that baron /dragon is gone when he has a full mana bar (he has one of the highest dps outputs for mages when you hit all your Q's)
have you seen this guy recently he is fast enough and that shield he gets allows him to solo most objectives with 40% cdr just as well as malz did before this change.
rtbf761092718 votes
is also insane objective dps and even has heals
RavenMagus2 votesI'm not saying that no other mage does damage to objectives. While none of them are quite Malzahar-level, some mages ARE good at doing damage to objectives, you're right. But then there's mages like 
who just aren't as good at damaging Dragon/Baron.
Cosmic Warper1 votesI'm not saying that no other mage does damage to objectives. While none of them are quite Malzahar-level, some mages ARE good at doing damage to objectives, you're right. But then there's mages like
Vel and ziggs don't do good damage to dragon and baron? What.....
RavenMagus1 votesCompared to the real gods of dragon/baron damage (Cassi, Karthus, or any AD champion), not really. Vel'koz is a bit better off than most of the others there, but none of them are really anything special (and some of them are just really bad at it).
Eedat2 votesBurst mages aren't nearly as effective as high single target DPS champs like ADCs or Cass Malz Ryze etc
Eedat2 votesYou're missing the point where I said "without taking any damage"
None of the champs you mentioned can solo Baron let alone walk away with a full health bar. I'm sorry that you don't see the significance of a team being able to start Baron repeatedly then turning on anyone shows up with full health bars. Or Malz and the ADC burning Baron down quickly while the rest of the team is showing on the map. I also an sorry that you think a burst mage like brand is better at taking barons than a Malz or Cass
rtbf761092714 votesI was just about to make a thread about this since I just played him and found out the same. Dragon and baron not only one shot the voidlings, they one shot **all ** of your voidlings in one aoe hit
Shuyin1783 votesThink of this, he is suppose to be a DOT CC mage, nothing more nothing less. Being able to reliably take objectives (towers/soloing epic monsters) is not what Malz is suppose to be about, and should never be what he's about. Towers belong to Ziggs, epic monsters belong to ACTUAL junglers, keep him mid lane where he belongs. People see 1 spark of jungle potential in a champion, abuse it, then it ruins things for laners because something important gets nerfed due to jungler abuse.
Z1082 votesI disagree. I think he is no longer viable in lane,at least as AP. AD might work in lane and it still works in jungle. If I see anyone selecting him for lane on my team, I would dodge. And if I saw Malz on the enemy team I would tell my team to gank him endlessly because he is now a sitting duck with no burst damage for defense and not enough sustained damage to 1 v 1 any champion.
nm101010 votesEh if you actually do the math on the change you get something like double the damage on each voidling before you get any items, it just continues to go up from there due to the ap ratio and flat damage they added. Basically they are easier to kill/kite, but actually do more damage than before. Not to mention the ammo system is really nice for bypassing enemy cds that oneshot them.
Z1082 votesEh if you actually do the math on the change you get something like double the damage on each voidling before you get any items, it just continues to go up from there due to the ap ratio and flat damage they added. Basically they are easier to kill/kite, but actually do more damage than before. Not to mention the ammo system is really nice for bypassing enemy cds that oneshot them.
doing the math is not the same as playing him, which I have been doing all morning and I can tell you that he is no longer viable in lane....
nm10107 votesI've played him a few games too and the math holds up. The 300% bonus damage helps push with less minions along with the higher damage on voidlings in general. If you have to use 2 charges they even made them cost less mana.
Z1081 votesI've played him a few games too and the math holds up. The 300% bonus damage helps push with less minions along with the higher damage on voidlings in general. If you have to use 2 charges they even made them cost less mana.
I just finished a game playing AD in lane and that seems to work. No AP Malz for me voidling damage is too little.
nm10102 votesWhatever floats your boat, I've seen toplane split push ad malzahar do well.
ZephyrDrake2 votesif it really something that actually hurts him then i'm certain they'll make his voidlings have some amount of defense against jungle mobs... still doubt that they'll ever bring back the "i can make my entire team immune to dragon/baron by using a single skill" again
nm10104 votesI mean it just feels bad to go from objective oriented mage to objective useless mage. Also it isn't like they are stopping heimer or zyra doing essentially the same thing.
ZephyrDrake1 votesI mean it just feels bad to go from objective oriented mage to objective useless mage. Also it isn't like they are stopping heimer or zyra doing essentially the same thing.
heimer really doesn't have much else going for him, he is meant to create a zone and be in control of said zone and zyra is just zyra. Voidlings also have less health than zyra's plants so unless they increase the health of them don't see baron not one shotting them... unless they make dragon and baron do 2 damage to them while everything that's not a turret does only one. Also Zyra cannot prevent her entire team from becoming immune to baron/dragon unless you give her time to set up. Malz could just walk there, activate his voidlings and insta immunity is granted due to how stupidly high the spawn rate of them was. He still has other strengths and they'll do something for him if he really is hurting after the changes, we'll just have to wait and see how much it actually hurts him
nm10102 votesIt isn't just oneshotting one voidling is the part that feels bad, for some reason baron attacks counts as AoE and kills them all (dragon I can understand on this part at least). If it killed one at a time in one auto I would even be fine with that compromise, but as it is you can't even have w out without all voidlings dying immediately.
AirKingNeo2 votesI think the point was to stop him from making his team take objectives too quickly.
nm10101 votesThey could just make it so that 1 attack kills 1 voidling or so that each attack does 1/3 of all voidlings health. Both would cut down on the damage they do while making them still useful for tanking.
MyAdcSùcksGG2 votesAs a malzahar main its really pathetic now that voidlins got 3 hp , i cant even solo toad , or wolfs now when in jng at lv1 , try to gank enemy 1 darius swing , all voids dead..Would really love them to change back voidlings health
nm10101 votesYou know its bad when mid ezreal, known for his lack of wave clear, can clear my voidling before I can finish the 3 melee minions. If I use both charges he clears it by the time I get to the ranged minions and I have trouble clearing cannon wave.
MyAdcSùcksGG1 votesAlso when you E enemy voidlings doesnt get the movement speed anymore to attack them faster, which sucks
nm10101 votesThey do, it is just 600 range. So about annie auto attack range which is kind of low range.
Muddafragot1 votesEh, they take up a hit from monsters and they get targeted on the monster's next attack after being spawned. Absorbing a single Baron or Elder attack is pretty damn good.
WoonStruck1 votesMalz deserved it~~ :)
nm10105 votesI imagine that is a pretty common sentiment, he was exceptionally good vs below par players. I mean look at how many people get salty about Annie.
WoonStruck1 votesAnnie is actually easy to fight. You have negatron+refillable and she can't 100-0 you at any point in the game. Annie doesn't get fed? Annie doesn't become a problem. On top of that, Abyssal's probably over-tuned atm, and people still refused to get an early negatron cloak. Annie actually only seems abusive due to people not caring to play properly when facing one.
Malzahar, meanwhile, was extremely safe, and the new passive they gave him made him even safer.
I've actually found its 'below par players' that are playing Malzahar, in most cases because of how braindead his gameplay is, while still allowing you to have exceptional impact on the game and how its played out.
The only champions that can effectively fight him are ones like Cass, Vik, etc.
nm10103 votesYour over simplification of things is pretty astounding, considering I could use the same logic to say people not buying a qss is them "not caring to play properly" vs Malzahar. New abyssal is actually worse by about a hundred hp compared to old abyssal if the enemy buys mr, without it they break about even (new abyssal vs 30 mr is about 10-15ish extra damage for level 9 leblanc landing all skills vs 1055 hp target).
What part of the game did Malzahar have a significant impact on?
https://i.gyazo.com/c8235eb32602bcc30f9dccd39cdd89aa.png
He was pretty sub par on everything except winrate and not dying. This leads me to suspect much of his power was in his objective control. So if you nerf his laning that wasn't exceptional, make his voidlings more susceptible to AoE late game, and remove his objective contribution he is clearly going to at least feel bad to play.
I am going to say a 47-48% winrate due to his silence and r utility carrying him through.
