Will DFG be removed in S5?

Nausicäa ·Nov 14, 2014·16 votes·5,412 views

Its been a problematic item for a long time. Please delete DFG and adjust the champions that absolutely need it like Ahri, perfect time to do it in pre season.

73 Comments

I eat dragonsNov 14, 20149 votes

[deleted]

darkdillNov 14, 20147 votes

What they adjusted with Ahri was that her "can't miss" abilities dealt too much damage. She'd DFG, Foxfire, Spirit Rush, and kill you without needing Charm or Orb of Deception.

You want an insta-kill assassin? Pick Leblanc.

chumblerNov 14, 20147 votes

You want an insta-kill assassin? Pick Leblanc.

If the one being killed in that case is LeBlanc, yes.

Rustling BushNov 14, 20144 votes

You want an insta-kill assassin? Pick Leblanc.

If the one being killed in that case is LeBlanc, yes.

leblanc is really easy to shut down, i think she has like the worst base armor/magic resist in the game currently

Champion SkinNov 14, 20142 votes

Ehh there are only two types of MR the ones that have 30 at all levels and the ones that have scaling MR

serpensortia1Nov 14, 20142 votes

Yea her MR is the same as all ranged champs

darkdillNov 14, 20148 votes

item 3070 Veigar

Done25Nov 14, 20147 votes

I sincerely hope so. I've been wanting that item gone since forever.

ProfDrDeathNov 14, 20146 votes

The problem with DFG is, imo, how it instantly increases your burst and enables 100 -> 0 burst.

My suggestion for that would be to not remove it, but to change it to work more like a Zed Ult on a stick. Yes, that's mimicking a champions ability, but some items already do ( item 3026 Zilean , item 3077 Malphite , item 3153 ). That ult was basically introduced to solve the problem of an assassin instabursting with no counterplay.

Like this: Unique active - Marks an enemy champion for 4-5 seconds. At the end of that period, deals 15% of target's max HP + 20-25% of the magic damage the enemy received while marked as additional magic damage.

JunkοNov 14, 20142 votes

The problem would be that a champion like Veigar needs to burst somebody instantly or they will die, adding a 4-5 delay will kill him.

ProfDrDeathNov 14, 20144 votes

How is eliminating a play pattern that is quite bad for the game not a good thing?

JunkοNov 14, 20143 votes

Because Veigar is designed to insta burst somebody then be useless, if you take the insta burst away he will just be useless.

Nausicäa Nov 14, 20144 votes

Because Veigar is designed to insta burst somebody then be useless, if you take the insta burst away he will just be useless.

Veigar can instantly kill people without DFG. His ult alone late game deals like 2k + dmg to any AP champion.

Furthermore i dont see how pressing DFG R for an instant kill is balanced.

RoyaiChaosNov 14, 20144 votes

I honestly don't see how they can buff Syndra to compensate if this was removed.

The MechENov 14, 20145 votes

I honestly don't see how they can buff Syndra to compensate if this was removed.

There's a lot more to Syndra than DFG R man.

RoyaiChaosNov 14, 20144 votes

But the removal of DFG will be a nerf to her, are you saying that we should simply nerf Syndra and it'll be fine? A pretty big nerf to.

NarasimhaNov 14, 20143 votes

I mean, thats like saying the removal of Atma's will be a nerf to Garen and Sion. Should we give them buffs too?

Nausicäa Nov 14, 201415 votes

I honestly don't see how they can buff Syndra to compensate if this was removed.

Most good Syndra players dont build DFG on her lol. Its not a core item is completely unnecessary and a crutch.

She is not in the champions that would have to be adjusted.

SolumindraNov 14, 20142 votes

I've never understood why people think she NEEDS DFG....Thank you.

AkabaneKunNov 14, 20143 votes

I honestly don't see how they can buff Syndra to compensate if this was removed.

She has a stun in a big line, a slow aoe and a knockback in a cone, its not enough?

FafliXNov 14, 20144 votes

Removing DFG would either make some champs utterly useless, or, if you buff them, stupidly overpowered.

Example: Remove DFG and buff Le Blanc. Now she rushes a Rabadons and has her maximum burst combo every 30 seconds, not every 90.

ZaikyoNov 16, 20141 votes

Removing DFG would either make some champs utterly useless, or, if you buff them, stupidly overpowered.

Example: Remove DFG and buff Le Blanc. Now she rushes a Rabadons and has her maximum burst combo every 30 seconds, not every 90.

I still wouldn't rush DCap on LB, I enjoy CDR far too much.

SukishooNov 14, 20143 votes

Pretty sure items like item 3005 item 2039 item 2037 item 3123 item 3160 item 3124 item 3207 item 3209 item 3206 item 1080 item 3131 item 3106 item 3205 item 3154 were the only things being removed. item 3128 isn't one.

Nausicäa Nov 14, 20145 votes

Pretty sure items like were the only things being removed. isn't one.

Theres still time, its not like this is final list of changes.

Riot has mentioned that DFG is an item that they wanted to remove before and is extremely problematic.

It significantly reduces counterplay.

LordOfTheLeagueNov 14, 20142 votes

If we nerf crit too we have a deal.

SkiasNov 14, 20141 votes

They said they wanted less micro-abilities, so hopefully DFG and Zonyas will go away. Both are pretty annoying items.

FafliXNov 14, 20141 votes

Rmoving Zhonya's would be even more problematic: Mages would be too weak against assassins, expecialy lategame. You would have to nerf all assassins or buff all mages. That however would also create an inbalance between them and every other role. So there is no point in removing it.

JunkοNov 14, 20142 votes

Don't remove Zhonya, just halve the AP it gives. Seriously 120 AP on a AP counterpart of GA?

SolumindraNov 14, 20141 votes

That gives no Mr...Zhonya is a fine item...Tons of counterplay.

SkiasNov 14, 20142 votes

Thats a terrible arguement that because it has no MR its not incredibly slot efficient? It needs to be a 60AP item.

SolumindraNov 14, 20141 votes

No, It shouldn't be a 60 AP item, at that point you wouldn't buy it, why not just buy a larger AP item and then GA which gives MR, Armor, and A better, and I do stress, BETTER, Passive.

What I would do to Zhonya is make it too where ults no longer continue while using Zhonya, Nerfing Morgs, Fidds ETC that use this trick.

OrbvNov 14, 20141 votes

This would ruin Kennen and Fiddle, Morg doesn't really matter too much, she can survive. But the whole point of kennen or fiddle is to jump in and make them scatter or suffer. Nobody is going to fear squishy mages.

SkiasNov 15, 20141 votes

Making it shut off ults would just destroy champions that depend on it to be viable and allow Akali and Fizz to continue abusing it. Totally needs an AP nerf. It needs to pay for that active.

Edit: Another option is to stick another 800g on the cost.

JunkοNov 14, 20141 votes

Ye pressing 1 to survive anything that would have killed you and then destroying it with spells that came off cd, at 60 sec cd, has tons of counterplay.

SolumindraNov 14, 20141 votes

Ya, like CC, or grouping around the player if they are alone, traps that they spawn on top of, the fact that they come out with the same amount of health as when they started to shield.

Zhonya does not need a nerf, DFG does.

JunkοNov 14, 20141 votes

You don't understand. You ult as Veigar, they Zhonya, you just lost over 1k magic damage because somebody bought a cheap item.

How many champs buy Zhonya? 99% of mages How many champs buy DFG? like 5?

SolumindraNov 14, 20141 votes

Veigar has a stun....you can 100-0 them, while they are stunned, and CANNOT use Zhonya....Veigar has a built in counterplay to Zhonya. Zhonya is fine....lol

Edit: Looking up play history, you also play alot of champs that essentially force your opponent to buy Zhonya, IE: Zed. Zed ults, you have 2 options as a mage, Zhonya, or die....

Your also telling a gold I have no idea what I am talking about, when you are silver 4.... :P Not usually a fan of bringing in ranked, but telling someone they don't understand usually brings this about, so I'll jump the gun here.

JunkοNov 14, 20141 votes

This is actually my smurf, my main is in Gold 5, though that isn't really any better (i don't think i deserve more anyway).

And yeah i do play a lot of champs that are countered by Zhonyas, but i would be fine with it if either it's active had a higher cooldown or it simply gave less AP. Or make QSS sword better to even the items out.

SolumindraNov 14, 20141 votes

"This is my smurf..." Everyone says that man. don't post on a smurf if you don't want it called out. TBH.

Zhonya is a fine item, its CD is long enough and It's basically the only answer mids have for mid assassins, which need a whole slew of nerfing IMO. If you nerf Zhonya you need to nerf mid assassins, because you won't be able to play anything else.

JunkοNov 14, 20141 votes

I don't post on my main account because i don't want people to see it. I don't really care if people look up this account and look at my KDA and say i suck cause i don't play seriously on this one.

If Zhonya passive is the only way mids can answer to assassins (which is kinda true actually) then just reduce the AP it gives. Assassins don't get MR for building their AD items. Also assassins are often beaten by tanky mid champins like Lissandra, Swain or others that can negate their burst like Kayle and they can't answer to it either.

SolumindraNov 14, 20141 votes

You do realize that by lowering the AP you would also have to lower the cost correct?

Because Seekers armguard and Needlessly large Produce 100 on their own....

If you lower the AP you would have to lower the cost of the item, by a ton.....

SkiasNov 15, 20141 votes

No, because it needs a cost increase as well. That active is coming far too cheap.

SolumindraNov 15, 20141 votes

Once again, if you lower the AP It CANNOT go under 100, if you make it 60, like he is asking, the items would be cheaper overall, so the item would be cheaper, no one is going to pay 3000+ gold for 60AP and Zhonya active....

SkiasNov 16, 20141 votes

It's a giant Invul that can stop executes and everything. It's well worth the price tag.

FebruAhriNov 14, 20143 votes

Don't remove Zhonya, just halve the AP it gives. Seriously 120 AP on a AP counterpart of GA?

then they would have to halve Merc Scimitar's AD aswell. Seriously 80 AD on an AD counterpart of cleanse?

SkiasNov 15, 20141 votes

Mecurial Scimitar is outrageously expensive as it is and doesn't give you complete invulnerability. You can still be completely exploded.

Edit: Also, garbage build path

FebruAhriNov 15, 20142 votes

^on the other hand it removes any debuff making it better if you got hit by let's say a Morg binding while on the run than a zhonya would be

MartyrofsandNov 14, 20141 votes

DFG itself is not the problem. Champions being designed to 100-0 someone with little to no counter play is the problem. Fix the insta-gibb cancer many champs have in their kits, mostly assassins, and then we can start looking at items that also cause that issue.

Champion SkinNov 14, 20145 votes

So you want Assassins to deal sustained damage? Or deal less damage but have their combos on a lower cooldown?

Nausicäa Nov 14, 20143 votes

So you want Assassins to deal sustained damage? Or deal less damage but have their combos on a lower cooldown?

Not all assassins build DFG.

Most assassins dont even need DFG to full combo kill a target. DFG basically allows certain champions to instantly kill without using a full combo, thus removing counterplay and any ability for their opponent to react.