Dont you love taking 200+ damage in a trade early game after zyra misses Q and E

RexSaur·Dec 23, 2016·14 votes·1,198 views

Because theres seeds everywhere and her plant hitbox is fucking retarded.

How laning against zyra works : she misses Q procs 3 plants then they all hit once or twice before you can walk out of range and you just took 200+ damage + thunderlords from a 0 item support (you cant trade back as the more you stay in plant range the more you'll lose the trade).

Maybe make it so plants dont actually target champs unless she actually hits her spells or severely reduce its champ priority range so you can actually try to trade back against a zyra that cant hit her skillshots.

26 Comments

EschetonDec 23, 20169 votes

Except most other long range skillshot champs have faster cast animations. Zyra is quite telegraphed and slow in her abilities. Which is how you dodge them. And why she's more concerned with using her W than landing her E or Q.

AHeroNamedHawkeDec 23, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Except most other long range skillshot champs have faster cast animations. Zyra is quite telegraphed and slow in her abilities. Which is how you dodge them. And why she's more concerned with using her W than landing her E or Q.

Except you don't "dodge" them, you run in the opposite direction and wait for them to time out

Dodging implies you can avoid the damage and continue the trade, like how skillshots work, not immediately disengage

EschetonDec 23, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Charles Barklius,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MmvKHVi5,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-12-23T06:09:32.342+0000)

Except you don't "dodge" them, you run in the opposite direction and wait for them to time out

Dodging implies you can avoid the damage and continue the trade, like how skillshots work, not immediately disengage

You wait for her snare to time out? I'd prefer to dodge, but your call :p.

AHeroNamedHawkeDec 23, 20161 votes

{quoted}

You wait for her snare to time out? I'd prefer to dodge, but your call :p.

The point was the plants, that wall of 200-300 magic damage? You don't dodge autoattacks unless you're Jax

Silly NeekoDec 23, 20164 votes

Except for most Zyras arnt aiming for you. You just think they are aiming for you. They are actually aiming for their seeds.

RexSaurDec 23, 20163 votes

{quoted}

Except for most Zyras arnt aiming for you. You just think they are aiming for you. They are actually aiming for their seeds.

Thats just non interactive lane right there, the plant hitbox covers literally almost the whole lane, she should you know have to hit her spells to do damage like every long range skillshot champion.

ph1234kDec 23, 20163 votes

Hitting her spells and proccing her plants are different things. It her plant hitbox was smaller (it isn't the entire lane btw), due to her plants being places at utter random they would be pretty useless. They are set that way so when you misposition into some seeds, she can hit you with the spell and her plants come alive.

ApexInTheCircleDec 23, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Hitting her spells and proccing her plants are different things. It her plant hitbox was smaller (it isn't the entire lane btw), due to her plants being places at utter random they would be pretty useless. They are set that way so when you misposition into some seeds, she can hit you with the spell and her plants come alive.

Uhhhh I'm gonna call slight bs on that, her plant proccing is damn near a whole lane in width.

SchmidttyGamesDec 23, 20164 votes

As a Zyra main, I can tell you that she is utterly worthless without her plants. The only time I ever aim to hit the enemy with my Q is when I'm intentionally dropping seeds on them at the same time. But once she "shoots her wad", she's extremely squishy and very easy to kill at every stage of the game.

Just remember that she gets stronger the longer she is in the same place because of her seeds. Abuse her when she first arrives, or after she uses up her seeds on the map.

Succubús GFDec 23, 20162 votes

Right because one plant dealing half my health mid game is fun

SchmidttyGamesDec 23, 20161 votes

If one plant takes half your health during the mid-game, you made a mistake, either in your build, or by not killing the plant to begin with. If it was from an Ultimate, that's different, because her ultimate hits pretty hard and empowers all plants in it's range.

I think your problem lies in the idea that you should be able to faceroll into Zyra. She simply isn't built to allow you to do that. Lure her abilities out, then initiate on her. She'll go down fast.

Succubús GFDec 23, 20161 votes

I think you fail to realize that adcs are squishy. If she is going full ap, her plants are going to hurt. Sorry i dont rush banshees on jhin??????????

AckelopeDec 23, 20161 votes

But her plants hurting you is an OK thing in this scenario, you're a squishy backliner, she's a control/disruption mage. One of her whole points is being able to force people to play around her, if you're treating her like a class she's not, you'll get punished for it.

Tactical PoroDec 23, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=RAMP Schmidtty,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MmvKHVi5,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-12-23T05:11:33.938+0000)

As a Zyra main, I can tell you that she is utterly worthless without her plants. The only time I ever aim to hit the enemy with my Q is when I'm intentionally dropping seeds on them at the same time. But once she "shoots her wad", she's extremely squishy and very easy to kill at every stage of the game.

Just remember that she gets stronger the longer she is in the same place because of her seeds. Abuse her when she first arrives, or after she uses up her seeds on the map.

I don't believe this to be true at all. Without plants zyra still has a high damage output. On top of that she has 2 forms of cc that are incredible valuable. Plants are just the icing on the cake.

SchmidttyGamesDec 23, 20161 votes

Not really. Her Q hits decently hard, but only if it lands. Her E snare doesn't do a whole lot of work aside from maybe a minion line. Her W is seeds. Her Ultimate does a fair amount of damage, but empowered plants will dwarf that if someone is dumb enough to actually stand in them. Her auto is weak (unless hitting a tower) and also slow. She, herself, is extremely slow and doesn't build speed outside of Boots in almost any occasion.

If you see her ultimate come out, 90% of the time her Q and W are also tapped, and she becomes a free kill if you get to her.

Tactical PoroDec 23, 20161 votes

Well we can agree to disagree. I think she's very powerful outside of her seeds, and even more powerful with them. Everyone's entitled to an opinion no matter how wrong or right it is. Maybe you're using less than ideal runes or building her wrong for the situation.

SchmidttyGamesDec 23, 20161 votes

AP, MPen, Armor, MR in the Support Role. Rylai's and Liandry's is core for her anywhere, but in Support a Sightstone comes first. Sure, you could build her AD, but all of her abilities are AP or "null" (seeds), so why would you ever do that?

In Mid, I'll use Attack Speed over AP and MPen to help CSing, but it only makes her weaker overall. I'm not sure where you're getting your ideas from, but her Plants are almost all of her threat.

Tactical PoroDec 23, 20161 votes

You could drop the MR glyphs for CDR scaling and more MPen. Zyra is going mainly against ad in bot lane. Late game any apc is going to burst her regardless of the extra 10 mr you get from said glyphs. I didn't say build Ad. There's a ton of different ap items. If you're support you have to make the conscious choice whether or play aggressive as a full on secondary APC late game or the full support game with more generalized support items. More so you would want to go the first of the two, but different situations call for different builds/build paths.

All I'm saying is if you feel worthless without 1 ability (her seeds) you're doing something wrong. There's still a ton of potential in her hit when her seeds are on cd. Her q and e have both pretty large hit boxes paired with rylias is powerful. There's more to just placing seeds and letting the plants do the work.

SchmidttyGamesDec 23, 20161 votes

I never said she was totally worthless, but once you use her kit, she is extremely vulnerable. It's her balance. Once you get good at using her skills at the right times, those windows become fewer and fewer. Her moves are easy to telegraph. Her E isn't going to save her (unless it deters an attacker) and her ultimate CC is somewhat situational on top of being an ultimate. I don't consider any Ultimate to be a reliable form of CC even if it is (Warwick, Malzahar, ect) because of the cooldown. If you burn your ult to get away, you reduce your own effectiveness.

Her cooldowns are fairly short, which is her blessing, her passive seeds are RNG and her W seeds don't regenerate very fast. You can hurt someone, but it's unlikely she wins any straight up fight without her plants to help her out.

She can deal huge amounts of damage quickly when played correctly. Once she has Rylai's she becomes an outright menace thanks to the range of the Thorn Spitters. But if she get caught out, she is almost always going to die unless she make a great play to escape or has some help nearby. She's a squishy mageling, after all.

AckelopeDec 23, 20161 votes

Plants are Zyra's main dmg output, and they really solidify her position as a control mage; they make an area less accessible/less rewarding to access, because of the threat posed by going there. Her plants also do a majority of her dmg, the later into the game you get. I think her dmg is still ok without them, but it is much more burst-oriented. I imagine you might be confusing some of Zyra's plant dmg with her ability dmg, because every time she comboes you with other abilities, plants will be involved as well if she's competent, providing a lot of extra dmg that is also not always super noticeable.

RevaliDec 23, 20162 votes

Just make her plants be unable to proc fucking thunderlords like every other summon and I'm fine with her, till then shes way to annoying to deal with

MelledoneusDec 23, 20161 votes

That's why you assert lane dominance by crushing the seeds as soon as they spawn. Unless the enemy ADC is Draven, you should be fine as long as your ADC isn't a potato.

Especially if you are playing a tank support, crushing Zyra's seeds make her a weaker Brand Support.

ShaolinToiletDec 23, 20161 votes

Yes crush the seeds crush them CRUSH THEM

EschetonDec 23, 20161 votes

Without plants AP Zyra has lots of dmg. Midlaner on a budget Support-Zyra needs the plants to do dmg because she goes magic pen to make things work.

Point is that Zyra support starts off with 25+ ap and 15 magic pen. Plus a bunch of other factors like Thunderlords. She should be doing dmg.

ChaoticPineconeDec 23, 20161 votes

.....okay, as a Zyra main, I'll bite.

Give her back her base damage and her AP scalings then. I'll be fine without the plant hitbox if you give her back her damage, cause its not like she can provide anything else but damage and CC.