Question for the balance team...

SwiftKitten88·Jul 14, 2017·1 votes·333 views

why are champion with 49-50% winrates getting buffs before champions with 44-46% winrates getting buffs? that makes no sense to me...

obviously for champsions like who flat out need a rework that's one thing.

but there are champions that could easily have some minor number changes that would take about 20 seconds and would boost their winrate by a good 2-3% to make them at least more VIABLE.

yet for multiple patches they get no changes. and champion who could use certainly some love but aren't exactly in "desperate need of it" like other champs are..

7 Comments

Sir FuzziJul 14, 20172 votes

I mean, you're gonna bring up Nid in every post you make and you're not wrong. It's just that 'balancing a champion' and 'balancing a champion's winrate' are two things-- and as Zac is indicative of, you don't always get to do both when you start chuckin' around reworks.

SwiftKitten88Jul 14, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sir Fuzzi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MmG3YHUc,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-07-14T22:43:04.766+0000)

I mean, you're gonna bring up Nid in every post you make and you're not wrong. It's just that 'balancing a champion' and 'balancing a champion's winrate' are two things-- and as Zac is indicative of, you don't always get to do both when you start chuckin' around reworks.

ok zac had a full blown rework... the very first thing i thought when i saw his new Q and ulti was "damn that looks op"

so i im sick and tried of hearing about "oh well we didn't expect that giving zac two crazy new forms of "cc would break him"

its the same bullshit as "we didnt expect nidalee winrate to drop by 13 percent when he gutted her best item and remove her only viable mastery.

im tried of people not being able to "expect" the obvious

im tried of the "we cant think of a way to buff Nidalee without breaking her..

i got FOUR!!!!

and i have posted them countless times.. I'm sure riot can find them...

the whole "we cant do it without breaking them" is a bullshit argument.

and im sure there are Ezreal mains and Rengar who know EXACTLY how to fix their own said champions...

Sir FuzziJul 14, 20171 votes

Absolutely on that last point-- some Ezreal mains could probably turn him into wild fun. But at the same time, doing it and doing it right are two different things. If they just make a new Nidalee who has to be shoehorned into one whole viable AP ratio again, it's just going to be the same problems.

Nidalee needs to have two of the mage, support or assassin stripped from her; they need to decide on what she's going to do and they need to make sure she can do it by her own merits. Counting on a playstyle of 'get Hunted > do things' just makes it boring to play as, and against her because the gameplay only ever goes one of two ways. Either she's chilling in the back and throwing spears, or she's right up in your face, flailing like a fish out of water as she tries desperately to bring you 50 - 0 with one catform Q. It's stupid.

As it is, though, there's a lot of champions who are 'in bad places' but I think there's more focus on who's overperforming at present.

SwiftKitten88Jul 15, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sir Fuzzi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MmG3YHUc,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2017-07-14T23:48:37.972+0000)

Absolutely on that last point-- some Ezreal mains could probably turn him into wild fun. But at the same time, doing it and doing it right are two different things. If they just make a new Nidalee who has to be shoehorned into one whole viable AP ratio again, it's just going to be the same problems.

Nidalee needs to have two of the mage, support or assassin stripped from her; they need to decide on what she's going to do and they need to make sure she can do it by her own merits. Counting on a playstyle of 'get Hunted > do things' just makes it boring to play as, and against her because the gameplay only ever goes one of two ways. Either she's chilling in the back and throwing spears, or she's right up in your face, flailing like a fish out of water as she tries desperately to bring you 50 - 0 with one catform Q. It's stupid.

As it is, though, there's a lot of champions who are 'in bad places' but I think there's more focus on who's overperforming at present.

i mean the first and by far easier buff to give nidalee is to revert the 100% absolutely pointless 1 seconde increase to her kitty for skills... there is no way that is going to break her...

not only was that change done the PATCH before they gutted her winrate by adding the new jungle.. it accomplished NOTHING. it BARELY hurt her..

then when her winrate drops to abysmal level the FIRST thing they should be doing is UNDOING what they shouldn't have even done in the first place.

after that we can see if she needs another buff... if she is under 47% in low elo and 51% in high elo..

then we give her her % hp damage back on traps..

every champion and their cousin now has % hp... on very reliable easy to hit abilties.. nidalee traps are EXTREMELY unreliable...

i mean yes having them on a invisible trap will be new.. but it at least wrth testing for one patch... at LEAST worth bringing to pbe... if reducing her kitty skill back to 5 seconds doesn't fix anything.

i do believe those two changes will be enough to fix her... but even if riot isn't willing to do that... a flat revert to 4.17 would do the trick...

she will NEVER be able to effectively lane again without getting her full pounce reset back... and i really cant see a way of giving her those back unless you make pounce resets NOT work vs jungle mobs otherwise that WOULD break her jungle.

delivererofdeathJul 14, 20171 votes

I can't speak for Riot, but I know that they've mentioned before that they don't balance champions off win rates. And besides that, some champions are a lot more tricky to fine tune, and it's better for game balance to have a champion hang out in the mid 40's, than have a champion who swings back and forth each patch.

SwiftKitten88Jul 14, 20172 votes

{quoted}

I can't speak for Riot, but I know that they've mentioned before that they don't balance champions off win rates. And besides that, some champions are a lot more tricky to fine tune, and it's better for game balance to have a champion hang out in the mid 40's, than have a champion who swings back and forth each patch.

swing back and forth each patch? none of these champs "swing back and forth" each patch...

52% is in high NOT a broken the lower elo winrate is 48%

hell champs like Shaco have 52%+ in EVERY elo...

delivererofdeathJul 14, 20171 votes

I'm just saying that sometimes it's better to leave a champion lower on the totem pole for a few patches, then to hastily give them a buff and have them swing up to 57% win rate, which would then require a nerf, making them unviable, and then you have them swinging around for a few patches until Riot finds a 'good enough' spot for them. A lot of champions are more tricky to balance than just a pure numbers game, and sometimes champions aren't even underpowered when they have a negative win rate, which is why Riot doesn't balance according to winrate anyways.