Why the nerf on Armor Pen RUNES compared to ITEMS?

ValyrianBlade··2 votes·1,133 views

I don't get it. I've invested in Armor Pen runes. You invest in runes for their stat bonuses early game. Likewise, we've established that flat armor pen is at its strongest in the early game because no one has built armor yet and innate armor is at its lowest.

So why in the world are armor pen runes being changed to lethality that breaks even AT LEVEL 12 when all of the lethality items break even at level 8?

If anything lethality runes should be breaking even at level 6 (earlier).

Anyone who runs armor pen runes took a significant hit to their early game with this change.

11.52 flat armor penetration was just changed to 14.4 lethality. Or 5.76 flat armor penetration plus 0.48 per enemy level.

That means at level 1, when armor penetration was at its strongest, you just took away HALF of our armor pen. At level 1 with runes and masteries, a typical champion would have 30 armor.

100/(100+30-11.52) = .844 100/(100+30-5.76-0.48) = .808

That's 3.6% less physical damage at level 1. It gradually improves until it breaks even at level 12, but really what do we care about? Let's consider a typical enemy champion at level 18: say 82 base armor, 9 armor from seals, and 60 armor from items for a total of 151 armor:

100/(100+151-11.52) = 0.4176 100/(100+151-5.76-0.48*18) = 0.4227

That's a whopping 0.5% extra damage on lethality runes compared to the old armor pen runes at level 18. Of course I'm assuming no other armor pen/reduction, but still I think the point is fairly clear: THIS WAS A HUGE NERF TO ARMOR PEN RUNES.

I don't want to sacrifice 3.6% damage in the early game when it could make the difference between me getting a kill or being killed, me snowballing to carry a match or me letting my enemy start snowballing to carry against me, etc... in order to get a measly 0.5% extra damage at the extreme late game. If I get even a handful of extra CS in lane / deny a handful of CS because of the extra early strength, that gold will more than make the difference up.

Why wasn't the same approach taken as last season, where mana regen runes were NOT CHANGED when mana regen was overhauled?

Armor pen runes were IMMUNE from the problem plaguing flat armor penetration: that assassins bought it when ahead but were useless when behind. Flat armor pen runes were a DEFAULT from the start of the game - you didn't have to buy them.

I see no reason why they had to be changed at all, but if they did have to be changed, shouldn't they have been made to break even at level 6, or at least level 8 like the rest of the lethality items? 12 is way too large of a nerf. I can't see how it would ever make sense to take Lethality marks over AD marks or AS marks now... Runes are meant for the early game and Lethality simply gives up way too much early.

9 Comments

WeedTits1 votes

I don't think anyone has used armor pen runes for a while now? ADCs go flat AD and attack speed, even AD casters usually just go all flat AD. Who is this a problem for?

ValyrianBlade1 votes

{quoted}

I don't think anyone has used armor pen runes for a while now? ADCs go flat AD and attack speed, even AD casters usually just go all flat AD. Who is this a problem for?

It's optimal on most bruisers/fighters. Basically AD top laners.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

well when you change the items in the game from ARMOR PEN to LETHALITY THEY HAVE CHANGE THE ARMOR PEN RUNES TO ALIGN WITH THE CHANGE

oh btw incase you missed it ... armor pen as a stat has changed officially as of patch 6.22

ValyrianBlade1 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MiA1xsj6,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-11-11T01:53:59.260+0000)

well when you change the items in the game from ARMOR PEN to LETHALITY THEY HAVE CHANGE THE ARMOR PEN RUNES TO ALIGN WITH THE CHANGE

oh btw incase you missed it ... armor pen as a stat has changed officially as of patch 6.22

They don't - as I explicitly stated in my post they made a similar change last season when overhauling the mana regen system and yet they left the mana regen runes untouched.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

two different issues

cant compare one and the same.

mana is resource

armor pen or lethality is a stat of damage. cant change armor pen items in the game to HAVE NO ARMOR PEN and still have ARMOR PEN RUNES

come on man

ValyrianBlade1 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MiA1xsj6,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2016-11-11T02:49:20.981+0000)

two different issues

cant compare one and the same.

mana is resource

armor pen or lethality is a stat of damage. cant change armor pen items in the game to HAVE NO ARMOR PEN and still have ARMOR PEN RUNES

come on man

You're either a little child or completely new to this game. Either way I'll spell it out clearly for you.

MANA PER 5 WAS A STAT in League. Just like Armor Pen was.

MANA PER 5 was removed from all items in league and replaced with % mana regen, just like armor pen was replaced with lethality.

MANA PER 5 runes REMAINED IN LEAGUE.

It is very clear that a stat could be removed from items but left on runes.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

mana it self isnt a stat that does damage

Zero Skill Tank1 votes

Armor pen runes were IMMUNE from the problem plaguing flat armor penetration: that assassins bought it when ahead but were useless when behind.

No, they weren't. Just like armor penetration items, they were the most useful on targets that are behind in levels, thus participating in unhealthy snowball patterns.

ValyrianBlade1 votes

{quoted}

No, they weren't. Just like armor penetration items, they were the most useful on targets that are behind in levels, thus participating in unhealthy snowball patterns.

You're reading what they said backwards.

It wasn't the enemy being ahead/behind that made flat armor pen unhealthy, it was the user of the armor penetration being ahead/behind. If the user was snowballing he could buy too much armor pen before opponents had leveled sufficiently for the innate armor to survive against it. If the user was behind he couldn't buy enough armor pen, and buying it late resulted in his enemies having too much innate armor that he wasn't useful.

It's not about the enemy being under/over leveled. It's about the user getting the money for armor pen too early/late. Outside of extreme snowballing or being extremely behind, there's not often more than a 1 level difference between lane opponents - and very rarely more than 2. That doesn't make a big difference for lethality. However getting a couple early kills can get you an armor pen item a few levels before you would get it without kills. The gold disparity leading to armor pen being acquired too early/late is what caused the problem. At least that was my understanding of it.

And either way, it doesn't change the point that breaking even at level 12 seems too late. Why not 8 like everything else?

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