Nasus has completely lost his ability to carry late game.

HateDaddy··93 votes·9,546 views

Before I begin, I must apologize for the title because as you read you're going to find it was slightly misleading. I simply want to make it clear before hand that I'm aware of that but it's hard to convey my thoughts on the topic in one small title. I beg of you to consider actually reading. I'm not sure why that's become such a lost art these days. Actually I am, the degenerates of Reddit are to blame but that's another topic. Moving on..

Nasus is a shit champion right now. In reality, he is been for a long time but even the most dedicated Nasus players are painfully aware of that. The reason why is this game has simply power creeped Nasus so hard that there actually isn't a reliable point in the game where he's strong. Sure post 40-50 minutes you are if you've managed to farm in that time because you'll be banging down turrets with ease and nobody can really stop you. But his team fight is still garbage. His ability to be impactful in an interactive way is almost non-existent and he simply just doesn't feel good anymore.

Ask any Nasus player from the early days of the game, even as far as season 3/4 - Nasus felt good late game. He's largely been a mid game power house due to how easy it is to kill him late game but at least he had a power spike you felt you could rely on if you farmed. But the game paces so fast now and there aren't any signs of that changing. This has eliminated nasus' mid game spike. You can look on any charts and you'll find Nasus has a sub 50% winrate pre 25-30 minutes whereas his highest winrate actually came between these times even as early as last season. That simply isn't the case anymore.

Then you consider that there are so many champions that do everything he does but much more reliably and earlier. They aren't gated by farm or a cheesey split push that falls off at 15 minutes (E max Nasus). They scale incredibly safer and harder barring ridiculously long games. And frankly, with nasus' ancient design, they're just smoother and more accessible in almost all situations where Nasus simply isn't. There's too much cc, there's too much mobility and the strengths that Nasus does present are not unique nor are they strengths he's even remotely close to being the best at.

You could have his ult give him 150 flat resists for it's entire duration and it wouldn't matter. It's so laughbly easy to kite this champion. I understand he's probably still a pub stomper in bronze/silver and many posters on this board are bronze and silver so your response will likely be of a different nature since your experience with and against Nasus will be much different but even in dogshit elos like gold, plat and low diamond, kiting a Nasus and all but nullifying his existence is a remarkably easy task.

What I can say is this: I do not expect riot to move mountains to make Nasus good. They have a goal and direction for their game but that is a world that isn't favorable for Nasus and he will continue to slowly be phased out as a champion. I know we throw around the term VGU a lot here and unnecessarily it's fine often. However, I don't see a place where you can slightly modify nasus' kit to compete in today's game where it feels fair to play against. Riot has gone away from high sustain low interactive champions not named Gangplank because it's an unhealthy general style of play to have. And Nasus does it in such a way that his scaling and simplicity overtakes you very quickly whereas even when miles ahead, it's very easy to fuck up and die on Gangplank. And this is an example, I'm not casting a slight in Gangplank or any other champion for that matter. It's more of an illustration of just how bad Nasus is now.

It's time. I hate saying that too because even though I've thrown around the rework (or by today's definition VGU) term with Nasus before, I always knew buffs would help him in those times but I was convinced Riot wouldn't do it. Then Riot would do it or buff him indirectly and he'd level out. But this is just far beyond any negative experience I've ever had with Nasus, even in s2 when many of you will remember he was considered a troll pick. I don't see a future for Nasus in this game as it stands and while there aren't other kore pressing champions who are far unhealthier than Nasus on the VGU list, I would like to think Nasus is starting to be discussed as a possible candidate for one. I feel he needs it and anyone is free to agree or disagree.

I want everyone understand that in all probability, I have far more experience on this champion than likely all of you and have well over thousands of games on him since I started at the beginning of s2 and maimed him since then. I've known many of the original Nasus players over the year very well such as Hyfe, NateKiller, etc and still talk to them frequently. With respect, there's likely nothing you can tell me about him that I'm not already aware of or haven't thought of. I simply ask that you approach this objectively rather than with the all-too-common mentality that you know more this than the person you're responding to because of your self bias. To be clear, this is something we are all guilty of at all times. I'm simply asking you to be considerate of it before posting. Thank you.

195 Comments

Arcus Diabolus17 votes

The problem is he is a massive stat check. Either you kill him or you don't. There is nothing the other player can do other than kite him in order to outplay him and thats only an option if you have ranged abilities/autos. Whats more is because of how simple his kit is, there is no real way for him to outplay someone else. Pure melee range champions can't do anything else to beat him besides dive on him and fight numbers with numbers just kinda see who comes out on top.

Vallalan12 votes

nasus has never been a late game champion despite his unlimited scaling. any champion who is a juggernaut who doesn't have a way to tank 3 people and sustain through it is going to be pretty awful late game. nasus can do a shit ton of damage late game, but that is the stage he also takes a lot of damage from the enemy adc and mid.

where nasus has always shined is mid game. when he has around 300 stacks, and two tank items and boots where he is far too tanky to deal with and can fuck people up with his insane Q damage.

just because he is infinite scaling does not mean he is going to be good late game. if riot wants him to be good late game, he needs a rework. they can keep his infinite stacking, but they gotta give him more tools. my guess is they should just straight up gut wither or remove and give him a better tool to help him in team fights. wither is oppressive for catching out someone, if they gave him a darius like mechanic where he can heal off everyone around him then he'd be able to to stay in a fight more. maybe make his ult's damage heal him up based on how many people are around him, like swain.

YumaS2Astral2 votes

The myth that Nasus is a late game champion is probably due to the fact that his Q scales ad infinitum. What people forget however, is that there are more things in this game than just dealing damage. The problem with Nasus is that his damage can scale forever, but the means he uses to apply this damage do not. At late game a team will have the ability to kite, CC, and kill Nasus despite his tankyness. They can't do that at mid game because they do not have enough damage yet, but at late game, they will have enough damage and penetration to prevent Nasus from being a serious issue.

It is also harder for ADCs to kite him as they do not have enough attack speed, damage, and probably not have a QSS to deal with his W.

2nd Chance11 votes

So long as he's allowed to have that permanent Q farm stacks for more damage game-play style, they can't really give him more power in terms of damage or utility, j/s

Fraggleroc10 votes

I'm a Nasus player too (check match history). Frankly I'm worried about a rework. I feel that they may change his identity so much and relegate him to becoming a jg and stuff like that.

I'm all for minor Quality of Life and bring him up-to-date changes though.

But I feel there are some champs in worse shape than Nasus that r in need of changes before him.

HateDaddy15 votes

{quoted}

I'm a Nasus player too (check match history). Frankly I'm worried about a rework. I feel that they may change his identity so much and relegate him to becoming a jg and stuff like that.

I'm all for minor Quality of Life and bring him up-to-date changes though.

But I feel there are some champs in worse shape than Nasus that r in need of changes before him.

An unpopular sentiment to be sure, but I think Riots record on reworks has been far better than worse. And riot has given Nasus several QoL buffs, he's simply power creeped to death.

RFPSHBYQl79 votes

I don't know if this would really help, but what is Nasus Q would have effects basing on it's stacks? Like another passive just on his Q? 100 stacks - Siphoning Strike penetrates 10 of enemy champion armor(flat) 200 stacks - Siphoning Strike penetrates 10% of enemy armor 250 stacks - Siphoning Strike adds 0.5 seconds to Wither if enemy is already effected by Wither. 300 stacks - Siphon Striking an enemy grants steals 5 movement speed. 400 stacks - Consecutive Siphon Strikes build up bonus movement speed. (5 bonus ms per strike. Stacks lost if you don't hit an enemy champion with Siphoning Strike in the next 5 seconds) 450 stacks - Siphoning Strike deals small aoe damage(like item 3074 ) dealing 10-33% of its damage.(Closer enemies get higher damage) 500 stacks - Siphoning strike breaks the ground in the same area that it does aoe damage. The ground crack lasts for 5 seconds and enemies in it are slowed 10%.

DoktorKaiser8 votes

People keep saying that his infinite stacking is the problem and that they have to keep him down because of it, but I honestly think its the Wither, I mean its pretty much impossible for a champion that isnt mobile as fuck to do anything vs Nasus when he withers you, especially for the ADC. I think that it needs to somehow be a counter-AD(C) tool and not a counter-everyone tool. I literally have no idea how to balance him, I am just rambling about random things here :S

Emerald Fang6 votes

How is plat/low diamond "dogshit elo"? IDK if you're higher than that but if you are you're acting entitled because even getting to gold from bronze or silver takes hundreds, if not thousands of games of pain and commitment. There's a reason why less than 1% of all players are in plat and diamond.

notFREEfood5 votes

I would do 2 things:

  1. Rework wither. Nasus cannot have mobility combined with wither, but he really needs mobility with his reliance on a melee skill.

  2. Diminishing returns on q farm. Make it scale faster early, but fall off later to allow for a more consistent power level.

HateDaddy11 votes

{quoted}

I would do 2 things:

  1. Rework wither. Nasus cannot have mobility combined with wither, but he really needs mobility with his reliance on a melee skill.

  2. Diminishing returns on q farm. Make it scale faster early, but fall off later to allow for a more consistent power level.

I don't know if I want Nasus having mobility. It kind of fits his theme to be a slow moving jackal of death. The problem is that he moves too slow and dies quickly lol

rework trundle5 votes

I'm always glad to see other Nasus mains here.

I'd give him this some of the buffs below that could come along with some nerfs to balance it all.

  • Passive heals before resists (not every other LS items he could build, only his passive).

It could be a flat scaling with level + scaling ratio based on number of stacks or ad or hp. This is to make sure his healing doesn't become nonexistent when fighting huge tanks such as Malphite or Shen, but doesn't make a huge difference when fighting squishies.

  • R gives him passively 10/20/30% bonus armor pen

This could be moved to Q increased by number of stacks, but then he would become too feast or famine so having it scale on R level seems like a better idea.

  • He gains 40/50/60/70/80 movement speed while in E

I'm not sure about this one though. E's mana cost is already really high for what it provides, but you couldn't make use of the ms AND armor pen often.

RacoonHunter5 votes

I think one of the major things that's holding Susan back from riot doing anything to him is the fact that his W is a "backwards slow" While other slows do the target initially, this one takes it time and by the time it's full effect has come into being, the target is outside of his Q range (no ult).

Another reason that susan's can't carry in my opinion is that unlike other champions that split push to victory, he takes WAY too long now a days, even with the towers being weak as shit.
lets look at the "meta" top laners Kled Fiora Riven etc. (I know they aren't split pushers but they are his opponents he will more than likely face in the top lane.) Each of these champions can rush item 3077 and clear waves FASTER than him, more mobility than him, and can do more damage than him. Nasus has to slowly push the lane because he needs time to farm his Q.

Hell, Renekton DUMPSTERS nasus assuming equal skill because of how the champions have evolved (and the fact that renek's E shreds some armor vs nasus's E which only reduces it by a small ammount and not by a %) with items.

What I would like to see is easier stacking (but less damage on his q), his w being toned down and more upfront, his E being more than just an AOE poke for AP nasus, and his ult to be worthwhile again. Renektons does almost the same thing, but does more damage and is more impactful than nasus's.

Sagaxwiki4 votes

How can you possibly think that Kled, Fiora, and Riven are not split pushers?

Ravenous Howls5 votes

Nasus is indeed in need of changes for several reasons.

  1. He has no keystone that works with him the best. Most are just ok on him and he takes them for different reasons not because he actually has optimal synergy with them.

  2. His core items have been nerfed or changed that they no longer compliment his skill set. TF, FH, IBG and SV are all radically different now and are in general worse, but still the best options on him, then they were before.

  3. Even if well farmed he can not make impacts on the map due to the high amount of mobility and power creep so many champions now have. He is also a sub par team fighter when compared to the like of Illaoi, Darius or even Garen. They can all fight better in the team fight setting and can utilize the best juggernaut item Black Cleaver. Nasus can't make use of BC nor can he make big plays in a team fight unless he catches someone way out of position. In general is Juggernaut Brethren just do his job much more efficiently...

I too have over 1000 games on Nasus. I've mained him since season 2 but didn't start doing ranked seriously until last season. I love the champion and it's why I still play him but even games I do well, look at my most recent game, if my teams are bad I just can not carry no matter how well I do or far I get ahead.

DragonShea4 votes

Nasus should be a powerful lockdown champion.

Q for killing squishies.

W for locking them down.

E for teamfights, stay in it and you are boned.

Ult for 1v1 or teamfights for when you need that. umph.

Just my two cents on the matter.

Linna Excel3 votes

If you ask me, Nasus's Q is his biggest problem. If he gets too many stacks, he's just not fun to play against.

I think in order for him to be properly balanced, he's probably going to have to lose between a quarter and a third of his stacks on death. If not that, then he's going to either need max number of stacks or have a scaling by level in lieu of stacks.

HateDaddy8 votes

[{quoted}](name=Linna Excel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Mg2NKEWf,comment-id=0010,timestamp=2017-06-09T00:38:18.328+0000)

If you ask me, Nasus's Q is his biggest problem. If he gets too many stacks, he's just not fun to play against.

I think in order for him to be properly balanced, he's probably going to have to lose between a quarter and a third of his stacks on death. If not that, then he's going to either need max number of stacks or have a scaling by level in lieu of stacks.

So then you must believe Veigar should lose stacks as well?

Mira Arya Enthe3 votes

Yeah, sure. I don't think any champion's counterplay should be "don't let the game last long enough" from Twitch to Nasus to Veigar.

WinTheWarOnPants12 votes

At least it better than Veigar "well it's your fault for buying AP on an AP champion..."

AwesomeGuyDj2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Mg2NKEWf,comment-id=001000010000,timestamp=2017-06-09T01:08:56.504+0000)

Yeah, sure. I don't think any champion's counterplay should be "don't let the game last long enough" from Twitch to Nasus to Veigar.

the counter play to veigar is to shut him down. And not get free farm for 20 fucking minutes. Thats actually a stupidly idiotic change. They even had to change cho gath to keep his stacks on death at one point because it was so bad. Also, veigar is squishy af. Get an assassin. And have them do there job. You can kite nasus. I dont have anything to say about twitch.

statelesskiller5 votes

like i never get these people arguments. "oh they have a late game super powerhouse thats play safe. oh look there opposing laner got left cause he is bored and wants to make plays for 20 minutes. he eventually goes back to la------ and hese gone"

like you cant LET them have anything. you cant just decide to give them something. you have to utterly crush them and give them no chance EVER to survive. the counterplay isnt "dont let the game last long enough" the counterplay is. dont ever let them walk into lane

Linna Excel5 votes

Actually I do. I think that if both champs lost their ability to infinitely stack damage, riot would have more to work with in their kits.

Big Lincoln2 votes

Nasus just needs CC immunity when he ults, and he'd be fine

HateDaddy72 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Mg2NKEWf,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-06-08T23:21:34.084+0000)

Nasus just needs CC immunity when he ults, and he'd be fine

That would be so disgustingly broken lol

It'd be like Olaf and Nasus fusing. Olasus.

Big Lincoln2 votes

yeah for 15 seconds

but you can kite him so it's fine

Fondling Gems40 votes

Yes, kite him... without CC... when he has a really strong slow of his own.

Kiting involves having CC or much higher movespeed, Since Nasus already can slow people down from range and builds a decent amount of movespeed up in the form of items like Deadman's plate you can't really kite him without hard CC, or at least slows from something like Zilean to beat his out, and I am pretty sure only Zilean and Nami can get a stronger slow than Nasus in game.

Big Lincoln3 votes

you can kite him, dude, stop complaining

Fondling Gems32 votes

No, you can't kite someone with CC immunity if you are not faster. If you are equal speed you can run, but kiting involves attacking them while doing so, which you have to be faster (or at least have a lot of dashes) to do.

Olaf's ult only lasts for 6 seconds, and that is usually enough time for him to get on someone. I think a Nasus with 15 seconds of CC immunity can probably do more than that.

King of Mongoose5 votes

plat 5 50% wr illaoi main stop talking

Big Lincoln2 votes

stop acting like you're good, nobody cares

King of Mongoose2 votes

u argue like bronze

kiting is majority about incapitating the enemy. If nasus has full cc resistance how is an adc or mage gonna kite him when he gets a 95% ms slow with W and pops ghost and procs triforce rage? they can't.

it's the worst idea i've ever heard cx

Big Lincoln1 votes

it wasn't meant to be taken seriously, but i'm glad so many people got upset by it

King of Mongoose7 votes

you can't sense sarcasm over the internet, where's ur /s?

or more likely you were being serious and then you realized how terrible that suggestion was by the downvotes lol

Paroe15 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Mg2NKEWf,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-06-08T23:21:34.084+0000)

Nasus just needs CC immunity when he ults, and he'd be fine

Not CC immunity... Slow immunity. To be perfectly honest almost all juggernauts (barring ones like darius who have pulls) need slow immunity in some form to be relevant.

Troll for Trump1 votes

CC immunity Illaoi pls no

EcchiOtakuTM2 votes

Illaoi has CC immunity, her first activation of ulti prevents all CC until she lands, kinda like using yi's heal but instead use it to avoid being stunned/snared.

TyroneWatermelon2 votes

That's a cc immunity. Half a second but still cc immunity.

Automated Riven17 votes

I think slow immunity would be too strong also. Probably slow resistance would be ok. Maybe up to 50%

Mhihnj1 votes

but then nasus can just buy this item item 3009 for even more slow resistance. And it wouldn't even be very useful on marksmen with dashes/Gnar.

Automated Riven13 votes

But having someone who can 1-2 shot another character while also slowing them by up to 95 percent and is only stoppable by hard cc is simply too strong. There are certain points in the game where a nasus pick would be a win in champ select if you chose a low cc or heavy slows comp. Slow resistance is a reasonable way to buff him without creating a monster which is too strong. I am not gonna lie. The idea of a nasus against a low cc comp without the ability to be slowed would be very strong. I am not against nasus being buffed. But I think completly removing slows as viable counterplay would simply bee too strong.

AninLegions7771 votes

It wouldn't be. Yi can't be slowed but he isn't busted. Nasus won't be either.

Funkin Dunkin11 votes

Yi also doesn't build pure tank and get 55 armor/mr from his ult

xPlayedWithFyrex2 votes

I just late game carried a Nasus game and it was fine. Teemo and Jax were on the enemy team which disables me for attacking them but I still did fine. It is all about skill.

HateDaddy23 votes

{quoted}

I just late game carried a Nasus game and it was fine. Teemo and Jax were on the enemy team which disables me for attacking them but I still did fine. It is all about skill.

I'd penta every game with Nasus in bronze 3

Gelmous3 votes

highly doubt that

King of Mongoose3 votes

don't backtalk diamond nasus 1 trick when ur stuck at the bottom of gold maining busted adcs

Gelmous4 votes

sure thing bud, the ultimate low diamond

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