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I just want to be a bridge between the Taliyah players(regarding the W change)

Lady Hammerlock··6 votes·780 views

I think I'd rather stand as neutral ground here so first I have played Taliyah since her PBE release(i don't main her) so I've played with the double-click cast and it took me 2 games to get grips with it and another game to make it feel pretty smooth for me,I never complained about Double-click cast because it wasn't complicated or hard to really use(from my perspective),and I was with Zenon when he first said that the DCC(double click cast) fit her better

But you know there was some hate on DCC like how Zenon was biased and stuff how DCC was clunky,some people broke through and actually took the time to get used to taliyah,But even then the Complaining didn't stop so eventually we have this form of Taliyah's W the vector cast,a blessing for the newbie's but a curse for the experienced

I liked VC(vector cast) just as i liked DCC and i was pretty chill with it,but i kinda felt bad that the reason it happened was because(excuse my rude language) people just kept bitching and moaning about it and now the Avid Taliyah players pre-patch kinda suffer from the change,Vector cast has some benefits,easier to use,no lock out and such but did come with some issues like cancelling your movement command and no circle indicator.

i'd like to hear rational thoughts about the topic,I'll try to remain neutral as possible although be warned i do lean toward DCC slightly more then VC

EDIT:An Extra question for those who bitch'd and moaned,Tell me the biggest difference between the Taliyah W and Viktor E/Rumble R,it'll answer why VC was not the first chosen format of casting(if you get it right)

16 Comments

Critmaster Garen2 votes

how about this?

vector cast stays, but the cast animation including the indicator starts with the button press?

the most complained part right now is, that the spell only starts to cast when a direction is chosen and you let go of the button.

this will probably warrant some minor nerfs though as it will make her w even more reliable to pull off. they would need to increase the delay between the indicator and the actual cast.

ToffyTofu2 votes

I got taliyah soon after her realese on the live servers. I instantly feel in love with her play style even if she was kinda weak at that time , how ever I soon learned she had insane damage with her e then w combo. The combo was fairly easy to learn and use in games. I just did a game with taliyah and her changed w and it made it difficult to use for me, I couldn't seem to be able to use her e w combo as well any more. I might just be bad with those types of moves since I don't have victor or rumble ,but I still think the old w was a lot better/ easier to use. I will still try to learn the new w but I do like the old one better. PLEASE CHANGE IT BACK :/

I don't know if that awensered the question but that just my thoughts.

Lady Hammerlock1 votes

{quoted}

I got taliyah soon after her realese on the live servers. I instantly feel in love with her play style even if she was kinda weak at that time , how ever I soon learned she had insane damage with her e then w combo. The combo was fairly easy to learn and use in games. I just did a game with taliyah and her changed w and it made it difficult to use for me, I couldn't seem to be able to use her e w combo as well any more. I might just be bad with those types of moves since I don't have victor or rumble ,but I still think the old w was a lot better/ easier to use. I will still try to learn the new w but I do like the old one better. PLEASE CHANGE IT BACK :/

I don't know if that awensered the question but that just my thoughts.

Rational thoughts,there are no Questions :p

GaleWinUnleashed2 votes

I'm hoping for a cast system that works like this:

  1. Press key
  • Cast time begins
  1. Optional directional input via mouse drag
  • Could have a small "dead zone" so that tiny accidental mouse movement doesn't result in an unintentional directional input
  1. Release key, locking in the directional input
  • Releasing without mouse movement, or failing to release before the cast is done, would result in a straight knock-up

This system would remove the input lag caused by current vector-casting, while also retaining the ability to perform a vertical knock-up. Unless I'm greatly mistaken, this addresses all issues with both systems. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Edit: This does make it difficult to see the range of the spell, though. Experienced players (or those attempting to become so) would quickly learn it, but casual players trying her for the first time may have problems. At the absolute least there's no reason not to add the ability to do a neutral cast (knock-up with no direction) to the current vector-cast system.

https://i.imgur.com/1HvNiEO.png?noredirect

Dynikus1 votes

I could reliably use her W before when it was DCC, I can reliably use her W now that it's VC. The only difference I really feel in game is I have more undodgeable burst from W-E-Q. No circle indicator took getting used to, but having used the skill enough times, I have a fairly good idea what it's area of effect is.

inplane1 votes

As of now, I want to see the people who asked for Vector Casting to come and explain their reasoning. I also want to see how experienced with Taliyah they are since no one else can provide that information. I really don't want to be dickish and forcibly look it up myself.

About Zenon being biased about DCC, he had a point. I mean he was the one who made the champion. Currently, DCC does feel better than Vector for many reasons in my opinion.

Dynikus1 votes

The very first time I played her, I thought "You have to press W twice? Why not just make it where you swipe your mouse in the direction you want it to go?" not even knowing what vector casting was since I hadn't played rumble or viktor. I'm currently mastery 7 with her at around 75k points, and still think vector casting feels more fluid.

inplane1 votes

{quoted}

The very first time I played her, I thought "You have to press W twice? Why not just make it where you swipe your mouse in the direction you want it to go?" not even knowing what vector casting was since I hadn't played rumble or viktor. I'm currently mastery 7 with her at around 75k points, and still think vector casting feels more fluid.

Everyone to their own I guess. I just miss the freedom it had compared to the current controls scheme. Always having to knock in a direction becomes really annoying with uncoordinated teams.

Sire Hippington1 votes

I didn't have much issues learning her old pattern, but i still wanted it to be vector casteing, as that was more intuitive for me(tried to vector cast it all the time in the beginning) and most of all, it only needs 3 inputs(press-dragg-release) rather than 5(press-realease-dragg-press-release), so you can perform it faster.

I think the big issue is clearity on what VC actually means. I and many other though ti only reffers to the input, so press-dragg-release, and not to anything else. However, for Zenon is aparently also includes starting the cast at the end of the input chain rather than at the start, which is what causes the issues right now.

The main complains i here about VC on her W is that it feels clunky due to the input-delay it now has. And tbh, i don't see a reason for why this is the case. They could easily make it so that the cast starts directly after the first input, like it was with the double-click casting, ratehr than after the full input-chain is completed. It even wouldn't be that hard to implement ways that preserve the abllity for a straight knockup while haveing the press-dragg-release input.

But for some reason, zenon's stand is that if we have vectorcast, it has to be exactly the same as on vic or rumble, 100% copy paste.

inplane1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Don Cingulum,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Me76lmPp,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-07-17T17:29:54.904+0000)

I didn't have much issues learning her old pattern, but i still wanted it to be vector casteing, as that was more intuitive for me(tried to vector cast it all the time in the beginning) and most of all, it only needs 3 inputs(press-dragg-release) rather than 5(press-realease-dragg-press-release), so you can perform it faster.

I think the big issue is clearity on what VC actually means. I and many other though ti only reffers to the input, so press-dragg-release, and not to anything else. However, for Zenon is aparently also includes starting the cast at the end of the input chain rather than at the start, which is what causes the issues right now.

The main complains i here about VC on her W is that it feels clunky due to the input-delay it now has. And tbh, i don't see a reason for why this is the case. They could easily make it so that the cast starts directly after the first input, like it was with the double-click casting, ratehr than after the full input-chain is completed. It even wouldn't be that hard to implement ways that preserve the abllity for a straight knockup while haveing the press-dragg-release input.

But for some reason, zenon's stand is that if we have vectorcast, it has to be exactly the same as on vic or rumble, 100% copy paste.

Unfortunately, it's 100% because that's what Vector Casting is. The control scheme isn't attuned to Taliyah's circle-based skillshot. Only Viktor's E and Rumble's R line-based skillshots.

Anything different wouldn't be Vector Casting anymore, which should be the case.

Sire Hippington1 votes

As i said in the biginning, this is mostly an clearity issue. What people wanted is the input-sheme of vectorcasting - press-dragg-release, but not the exact way of processing that input data(starting the cast after the last input). What people wanted was the old casting, but with press and release instead of press1 and press 2, so less input-actions required. Maybe it's not 100% vectorcasting, but we simply lack any proper wording for it, and vectorcasteing uses the same input sheme. It's not double click casting, and aparently it's not vectorcasting(but the input is EXACTLY the same as for vectorcasting), so what is it? 'Semi Vectorcasting'? In that case what many people wanted is 'Semi Vectorcasting' for her W.

For me, it was just obvious that the Vectorcasting from vic and rumble, which have instant line skillshots, needs some adjustments for Thaliya's W, which is a delayed groundtargeted aoe. But well, aparently it wasn't that obvious after all.

inplane1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Don Cingulum,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Me76lmPp,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2016-07-17T21:28:35.294+0000)

As i said in the biginning, this is mostly an clearity issue. What people wanted is the input-sheme of vectorcasting - press-dragg-release, but not the exact way of processing that input data data(starting the cast after the last input). What people wanted was the old casting, but with press and release instead of press1 and press 2, so less input-actions required. Maybe it's not 100% vectorcasting, but we simply lack any proper wording for it, and vectorcasteing uses the same input sheme. It's not double click casting, and aparently it's not vectorcasting(but the input is EXACTLY the same as for vectorcasting), so what is it? 'Semi Vectorcasting'? In that case what many people wanted is 'Semi Vectorcasting' for her W.

For me, it was just obvious that the Vectorcasting from vic and rumble, which have instant line skillshots, needs some adjustments for Thaliya's W, which is a delayed groundtargeted aoe. But well, aparently it wasn't that obvious after all.

It's clear that we need a different form of Casting for Taliyah altogether at this point. We just broke what was fixed and it's a complicated mess now.

Oleandervine1 votes

I bought Taliyah on release and played her enough to know that her original iteration of W was clunky and didn't work that we'll in a team fight. I'm not a main like the upset people here who learned to deal with the mechanic, but as someone who wasn't skilled with her, the nature of W's casting was a huge turn off and I very much considered refunding her because I felt like it made her difficult to pick up. I know I'm not the only one who was turned off by her W, because her play rate bottomed out pretty hard, and only the select die-hard fans stuck with her. What they fail to understand is that something like her old casting lockout on W driving players away from her was damaging to her as a champion, because if no one played her, she wouldn't be a candidate for skins and the team that made her would feel like they wasted time and money.

Jeanne fan club1 votes

I don't understand why everyone has a problem with this. Ive played her both before and after the W change. You still have the option to W, then 2nd W to cast, but then change directions while the ability is being cast. the only change i've noticed is that you can drag it like a viktor laser now. Don't you have the option to cast it both ways now?

Lady Hammerlock1 votes

[{quoted}](name=9 Tailed Waifu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Me76lmPp,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2016-07-18T00:07:12.040+0000)

I don't understand why everyone has a problem with this. Ive played her both before and after the W change. You still have the option to W, then 2nd W to cast, but then change directions while the ability is being cast. the only change i've noticed is that you can drag it like a viktor laser now. Don't you have the option to cast it both ways now?

nope its VS all the way,pretty sure coding both in as a toggle would be nearly impossible/Spaghetti code would happen

Jeanne fan club1 votes

hmm. well I don't know then. I really don't see the problem with it right now then.

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