Lulu Pick rate has increased to 32% in diamond+

Ahristocats·Mar 21, 2017·27 votes·2,771 views

http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/lulu/diamond

and her win rate dropped from 53% to 52%, leaving her with 32% pick rate and 52% win rate which is by definition the stats of a broken champ just so you know

it seems that her ban rate went from 0% to 29% , i suspect it to be because people are tired of getting bullied out of the lane by lulu then having to deal with tons of enhancement that makes a target hard to kill PLUS gives offensive power like bonus ms/as and on-hit damage

The epitom of low risk high reward champ is back But nothing happened to Janna, so i guess nothing will happen to lulu

but at least Janna doesn't bully me in lane

64 Comments

Big LincolnMar 21, 201715 votes

Didn't boards JUST get done bitching about Jhin for having similar stats

Or when Caitlyn had them a while ago

But it's okay because Lulu is a support? rofl

AhristocatsMar 21, 201710 votes

except jhin didn't have 29% ban rate

Mira Arya EntheMar 21, 20174 votes

Jhin is an ADC, outside of Caitlyn people don't usually burn bans on ADCs. Because if one right clicker is banned the next strongest one will be picked in their place. While mages, supports, tanks, bruisers, assassins and divers bring more versatile utilities to the table. Nobody can fully replace Hecarim if he is ban so he is worth a ban when OP.

AhristocatsMar 22, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Me0sWorB,comment-id=000600000001,timestamp=2017-03-21T23:24:51.968+0000)

utilities to the table. Nobody can fully replace Hecarim if he is ban so he is worth a ban when OP.

this makes sense

but i didn't say jhin was fine, just saying that lulu has jhin's lvl of stats+high ban rate

Athenes LuluMar 21, 201710 votes

It only gets better when people can blindly poke and click E on people for free, and get away with it.

Then transition to shield bot and autowin because stat checking with Ardent is totally interactive to play as, too!

AhristocatsMar 21, 201711 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cancerous Lulu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Me0sWorB,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-03-21T18:40:32.105+0000)

It only gets better when people can blindly poke and click E on people for free, and get away with it.

i respect you a lot for being a lulu main and acknowledging how hard it is to lane against lulu Considering that the board are delusional and downvote everything without even leaving a comment

Risk of FateMar 21, 20174 votes

I learned a lot from the boards which is: You're wrong, I'm right because LCS pick, balance means I can kill you (ie, Ahri OP because mobility yet it's balanced when Zed can walk up, ult, and kill me from 3/4ths, half health) and Riot's never nerfing Lee even though they just chunked his ult and e (?) ealier, thus people had tossed him into the trash bin as Graves, Hecarim, and Warwick beat him.

Personally, I think whenever Lulu's in lane, it tends to be a hit or miss with my wins and losses. I don't think she's strong, but at the same time I haven't seen her much to make an accurate assessment. Her job is to deny assassins which assassin mains are now complaining about because it's already hard enough to kill squishies EVEN THOUGH Lethality pretty much gives champions psuedo-true damage. All you need are Youmou's, cleaver, and Draktharr, boom, every carry melts.

But what do I know, I'm just a silver scrub who quit the game cause salt and wanted to play other games.

AhristocatsMar 21, 201711 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fate Fire,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Me0sWorB,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2017-03-21T18:56:59.075+0000)

Her job is to deny assassins

she denies EVERYONE not only assassins

but wait there is more she can enchence a juggernaut by giving more movement speed, she can give more attack speed to her carry she gives an AOE slow on the frontline+knock up on engage

Lulu is as good for defense than for offense stop saying that her job is to deny assassins

But this is what makes me going on an anti-lulu threads there is just no way to win lane against a lulu in high elo it's so frustrating she has too much poke, no mana cost, point and click harass, shielding, strong 2v2

Risk of FateMar 21, 20172 votes

Have you tried maybe Morgana, Lux, Zyra, Brand, or maybe even Nami? I've done well as Support Lux against Plats/Diamonds in Norms as longer poke range and better shield. As well as that, shouldn't ADCs like Caitlyn, Jinx, and Tristana be shitting on Lulu lanes? Again, I don't really know what it's like in high elo, but I'd at least take credit that I'm good with matchups assuming no outside interference like a gank or something.

Yet if we were going to go into that, ganking a lulu lane is much easier than a thresh as she has to make a choice of saving the carry or turning to fight. 9/10 they will drop the shield on the carry which means you should make her a priority target.

AhristocatsMar 21, 20176 votes

The only champions that have a decent win rate against lulu are janna that wins 0.5% more (but it isn't related to laning phase, i can't see a janna winning lane against lulu)

Sona, but this is in plat+, as in high elo sona is never picked there are 0 sona mains in euw master right now, i don't know about NA or korea.

And blitzcrank, who's also never picked in high elo

basically once you're in diamond/master there is nothing that can stop lulu

Risk of FateMar 21, 20173 votes

So....there are ways to stop her yet nobody wants to bother and try to learn to play against them even though there's options? That's some good logic right there, does that mean if you come to a locked door people just say "well, we can't go through even though we have a key, a burly man to break it open, or even a sword to cut the lock off."?

I'm just curious why people don't like to try and overcome a challenge and rather have the obstacle just bulldozed away.

DolasaurMar 21, 20174 votes

Path of least resistance. If Lulu goes a while without nerfs, then they will learn how to play against her again. Like the time when Thresh and Leona were the FotM supports for a long time, and then people were like "hey, Morgana works pretty well against them". Before that happened, I don't think I'd seen 10 Morgana supports total, but she's not considered a weird niche pick anymore.

Athenes LuluMar 21, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Sona x Rubick,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Me0sWorB,comment-id=000300000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-03-21T19:12:37.304+0000)

The only champions that have a decent win rate against lulu are janna that wins 0.5% more (but it isn't related to laning phase, i can't see a janna winning lane against lulu)

Surprisingly, I actually lose a lot against Janna. And it's already uninteractive enough to play against her because a lot of it is pretty much "stat-checking". As in, whoever has the better or stronger early ADC wins the matchup.

Now imagine Janna with a heavy zoning and poking potential... not at all fun to play against. That's Lulu right now especially with the braindead E max.

AhristocatsMar 21, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cancerous Lulu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Me0sWorB,comment-id=0003000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2017-03-21T19:36:44.067+0000)

Surprisingly, I actually lose a lot against Janna.

but did you lost lane?

i can see janna going even against lulu, but not winning lane unless there is something that i ignore

Athenes LuluMar 21, 20172 votes

I usually go even against her, but if her ADC is a better lane bully than mines, then I would most likely lose.

Or camping Lulu is always the solution, in which every jungler should be doing that in the first place...

Maximum MordeMar 21, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Sona x Rubick,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Me0sWorB,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2017-03-21T19:03:55.434+0000)

she denies EVERYONE not only assassins

but wait there is more she can enchence a juggernaut by giving more movement speed, she can give more attack speed to her carry, do you know a support that can do this? she gives an AOE slow on the frontline+knock up on engage

Lulu is as good for defense than for offense stop saying that her job is to deny assassins

But this is what makes me going on an anti-lulu threads there is just no way to win lane against a lulu in high elo it's so frustrating she has too much poke, no mana cost, point and click harass, shielding, strong 2v2

Umm Lulus mana cost for poking is pretty severe really, unless they've reduced it since I last played her a year or so ago.

Course that's offset by being pretty damn easy to land.

doublelift fgMar 21, 20174 votes

they reduced her mana cost last month

Maximum MordeMar 21, 20171 votes

Well, that would do it.

Athenes LuluMar 21, 20176 votes

Severe? Because if Lulu has the ability to "spam" she will become oppressive as hell to play against.

And that is happening right now because her Q never needed a mana cost reduction, but bad players begged Riot for buffs anyways.

Maximum MordeMar 21, 20174 votes

So they did reduce her mana cost then.

My Waifu VanillaMar 21, 20172 votes

I mean.....if you want to spam a R1 Q in lane for no reason then you can go right ahead. Q has turned into a one point wonder almost entirely used for the slow and is maxed last like 99% of the time because the ability got completely gutted due to solo lane Lulu.

Also, Lulu's poke is "alright" at best because it does require her to move into 650 range of the enemy champions AND she has to give up her shield to poke.

chipndip1Mar 21, 20172 votes

650 range is actually fine for two no counterplay spells.

My Waifu VanillaMar 21, 20173 votes

I mean 650 range is well within the range of almost every other support/adc in the game so if you let her walk up to you and E you and you don't punish her you DESERVE to take all that damage. She gave up most of her use in lane for hitting you with E and is honestly the easiest counterattack for most supports. 650 is within all the hook ranges, Zenith Blade, pretty sure all of the mage "supports" realm of influence barring maybe Malz, Winter's Bite, Thresh Flash+Flay, etc. etc.

Troll for TrumpMar 21, 20175 votes

Lulu ends up making Juggernauts stupid to play against by giving them more dmg, more effective HP/tankiness, more mobility(their weakness), and some CC. Basically, adding onto both strengths and fixing weaknesses.

Playing against Lulu as a Juggernaut makes it a crppy time because she does the exact same thing to whoever you're fighting against.

It's better for her to be more moderate in her interaction with champions like Ivern.

Trade the utility for more solo lane stuff.

Athenes LuluMar 21, 20175 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fate Fire,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Me0sWorB,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2017-03-21T18:56:59.075+0000)

Her job is to deny assassins

I'm pretty sure she does way more than that. Way more.

The smartest Lulu players can slip past the frontlines and click on some fed carry, trashing some dumb "peel the x" comp. Even ADCs will have to bow beneath my feet.

Athenes LuluMar 21, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Sona x Rubick,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Me0sWorB,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2017-03-21T18:50:07.174+0000)

i respect you a lot for being a lulu main and acknowledging how hard it is to lane against lulu Considering that the board are delusional and downvote everything without even leaving a comment

I may have been one tricking Lulu support since season 3, but she is something I do not want to see on the enemy team, ever. Especially when players don't know how the champ works and get away with it because they exist, and used up their spells all "wrong".

She should be super vulnerable when her W is down, which is one of the most powerful non-ultimate abilities that can be "spammed". Apparently that's not the case, and that's a problem.

Dabrick01Mar 21, 20178 votes

She isn't broken. All of the people she counters are.

Here's why.

She is literally the best person to counter these people resulting in a better pick rate. Because these champs are always played and countered insanely well, she is able to win in most of her games because the people she is protecting are able to get kills and they get ahead.

AhristocatsMar 21, 20178 votes

{quoted}

She isn't broken. All of the people she counters are.

Dafuq do you mean by countering? lulu doesn't counter anything Lulu counters as much as thresh, she's a generalist picked in every single situations

her spells can fit to offense, defense in both laning phase and teamfight this makes her fitting with ANY classes in the game no exceptions

thresh on the opposite doesn't offer as much offensive power as her, his hook is the only thing that can engage a fight and it's telegraphed af I play a lot of Darius botlane, and thresh is one of the worst support for me Lulu on the other hand has attack speed steroid+a fcking ton of movement speed+ slow+ a persistant slow aura around me and bonus hp, on-hit bonus damage

Lulu doesn't counter specific champions, she counters every champion in the game, or tell me which champion isn't countered by lulu

Elkington VIMar 21, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Sona x Rubick,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Me0sWorB,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-03-21T18:20:31.051+0000)

Dafuq do you mean by countering? lulu doesn't counter anything Lulu counters as much as thresh, she's a generalist picked in every single situations

her spells can fit to offense, defense in both laning phase and teamfight this makes her fitting with ANY classes in the game no exceptions

thresh on the opposite doesn't offer as much offensive power as her, his hook is the only thing that can engage a fight and it's telegraphed af I play a lot of Darius botlane, and thresh is one of the worst support for me Lulu on the other hand has attack speed steroid+a fcking ton of movement speed+ slow+ a persistant slow aura around me and bonus hp, on-hit bonus damage

Lulu doesn't counter specific champions, she counters every champion in the game, or tell me which champion isn't countered by lulu

She counters melees, especially the burst-oriented variety. Immobile melees just don't stand a chance against her period. She can effectively put the latter out of the game when played even remotely well. Janna does the same thing, but since she doesn't solo lane it's okay.

AhristocatsMar 21, 20172 votes

so it's k for lulu to do it because she isn't in solo lane too?

because yes according to league of graph lulu is played 95% of the time in the support role

Elkington VIMar 21, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Sona x Rubick,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Me0sWorB,comment-id=0000000000010000,timestamp=2017-03-21T21:21:41.372+0000)

so it's k for lulu to do it because she isn't in solo lane too?

because yes according to league of graph lulu is played 95% of the time in the support role

For now maybe. In the past, whenever Lulu became too strong she ended up gravitating to solo lanes, which was then followed up by nerfs.

DorkunedAurasMar 21, 20178 votes

Jhin is fine with 50%+ Pick and Win rate.

Lulu isn't fine with 30%+ Pick and 50%+ Win rate.

Good Job, you did it. You proved our point about boards hypocrisy.

LawUrDepravdHartMar 21, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Jhin is fine with 50%+ Pick and Win rate.

Lulu isn't fine with 30%+ Pick and 50%+ Win rate.

Good Job, you did it. You proved our point about boards hypocrisy.

People will use statistics to prove anything. Hypocrite indeed.

WoonStruckMar 22, 20173 votes

Its almost like people have differing opinions and that a lot of people are heavily biased.

For example, I think both deserve to be heavily nerfed when they achieve the mentioned statistics.

Dr Sona x Rubick thought Jhin was fine. He changed his mind.

Cancerous Lulu, a Lulu main, wants Lulu nerfed. Lulu. Meanwhile some bronze that's never played Lulu thinks Lulu's underpowered. Lulu.

Sadistic VeigarMar 21, 20176 votes

Nost of this board believes supports are allowed to be overpowered because supports xdddd

MortekaiserMar 21, 20174 votes

yeah i fucking hate the shit out of lulu.

you know those "macho" guys that never played the female fighers in fighting games? they refuse to ban lulu on pretty much the same idea

AhristocatsMar 21, 20172 votes

{quoted}

you know those "macho" guys that never played the female fighers in fighting games? they refuse to ban lulu on pretty much the same idea

i'm afraid i didn't get it

MortekaiserMar 21, 20178 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Sona x Rubick,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Me0sWorB,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2017-03-21T18:34:32.686+0000)

i'm afraid i didn't get it

because "lol support bans" is pretty much the same thing as "lol ur playing a girl in a fighting game xd" that I saw out of a lot of people when I was a lot younger

lulu does too much, and has done it for a long time. its only now where kog is meta again (only because lulu is so prevalent) where lulu literally becomes absolute cancer.

AhristocatsMar 21, 20173 votes

{quoted}

because "lol support bans"

but she has a high ban rate

ProfDrDeathMar 21, 20175 votes

In Diamond+.

In Plat and below, her banworthiness has not yet trickled down to. Don't worry, that'll change soon.

Handin Out NapsMar 21, 20174 votes

Hey dude im a support player and its clear to me you are just some random low elo assassin main that is mad that I can protect my carry xDdddd. Lol assassin mains so dumb, get rekt by a support xd.

KnoyleMar 21, 20173 votes

NOBODY gave a shit about Lulu before she was picked in lcs. She hasn't had any really recent changes. This is all just because of the metashifting. The same reason Tabi is being called strong. Of course when Burst champs and lethality are all over the place something that gives you shields and bonus hp is going to fucking matter. Lulu is really helpful with protecting and snowballing allies because she's a goddamn enchanter. You know, the mage that is meant to make teammates stronger? Higher elo players realize this and that is why she is picked. I am seriously confused about what people want. We have people circle jerking about champions bursting too much and then they are going to complain about a champion that can mitigate said burst? Why would riot listen to half the shit said on boards when the boards contradict so much.

TyrekGoldenspearMar 21, 20173 votes

So... If I catch the drift of the Lulu complaints...

Her passive adds a lot of damage to trades...

Her Glitterlance hurts too much and slows too much...

Her Whimsy's doubling as a speed + atk speed boost to her allies and a polymorph to the enemy is too strong...

Her Help Pix! doubling as a shield and an effective deterrent to stealth champions is too versatile...

Hugeify! is generally annoying when you try to kill someone...

Is there anything I missed?

AhristocatsMar 21, 20174 votes

{quoted}

Her passive adds a lot of damage to trades...

that's my personal complain for the laning phase, i wonder where riot stands in all of this

TyrekGoldenspearMar 21, 20175 votes

Well you wanted mage "supports" out of bot lane.

Boom. A traditional mage support. Now people want her gone. I really wish people would make up their minds.

AhristocatsMar 21, 20174 votes

{quoted}

Well you wanted mage "supports" out of bot lane.

nah, i PERSONALLY wanted tank supports to be viable and right now they're meh but for the others i only wish Sona to be viable and she isn't in high elo

as for the others, i don't like to be bullied in lane, weither it's mage supports or lulu there is a reason she has a high ban rate

TyrekGoldenspearMar 21, 20175 votes

i don't like to be bullied in lane

But you play Darius ADC. A lane bully.

Ironic much, Mr. Rubick? :P

AhristocatsMar 22, 20172 votes

Ironic much is that the 2 people against me can outplay me and avoid being bullied

if you know how to win lane against lulu then please tell me, because even the support mains i know can't do it and they ban lulu

TyrekGoldenspearMar 22, 20173 votes

Did you ever hear the tale of Dr. Sona X Rubick? I thought not. It's not a story the Boards will tell you. It's a high elo legend.

Dr. Sona X Rubick was a Darius ADC player. He was so powerful and so wise that he could use his favorite champion and influence the kappaclorians to create... a new meta.

He had such a knowledge of bullying laners that he could even keep the ones he cared about, from losing. The dark side of the meta is a pathway to many winrates that some would consider unnatural. He became so powerful... the only thing he was afraid of was losing his lane, which eventually, of course, he did.

Unfortunately, he taught a Lulu main everything he knew, then his apprentice bullied him out of lane in her sleep. Ironic, he could save others from losing, but not himself.

More seriously, in theory I can see poke supports like Zyra doing well against her.