Caitlyn is still sub 44% wr in plat + and diamond +

Rexxiee··12 votes·1,487 views

When are her AS nerfs being reverted? Shes the worst perfoming adc in solo q atm.

23 Comments

FantasySniper8 votes

Oh no, a toxic lane bully (that still has an insane pick rate) got gutted?

https://i.imgflip.com/1sw9jn.jpg

Rexxiee5 votes

{quoted}

Oh no, a toxic lane bully (that still has an insane pick rate) got gutted?

https://i.imgflip.com/1sw9jn.jpg

12% pick rate 43% win rate "WOW what a good champion still broken nerf her more".

Jhin with 31% pickrate and 51~52% win rate but hes "perfectly balanced".

FantasySniper4 votes

Where in the hell are you getting those stats? Not even the shitty Champion.gg has those numbers.

Jhin is hovering between 51 and 48% from low to high elo with a 20 to 15% pick rate, and Cait is at 44% win at the worst with a 20 to 10% play.

Kariu Rena1 votes

toxic lane bully

Meanwhile those 4 mages "nerfs" LULLULULULUL

bàn6 votes

Good riddance.

chipndip16 votes

Really?

I thought Ezreal was worse?

Edit: Nvm holy shit she got fucked worse than she does in her hentai pics. DAYUM...

waiting for WoW4 votes

Cool

Let's leave her there until Riot figures out what to do with her like

Leblanc Rengar Zac AzirKindred item 3070 item 3073

Btw she is still in a much better state than all of the aforementioned champions.

Rexxiee4 votes

{quoted}

Cool

Let's leave her there until Riot figures out what to do with her like

Leblanc Rengar Zac AzirKindred item 3070 item 3073

Btw she is still in a much better state than all of the aforementioned champions.

Nope.

Her kit is fine she just got overnerfed, she needs some nerfs reverted thats it, shes no azir or kalista.

Her winrate is lower than those champs btw, shes effecitvely gutted.

BALDG1VEN BOOMER4 votes

No thanks, that champion was strong for a year and a half and now she's finally out of meta and we're crying now for buffs. lel

Sir Yamazuki2 votes

[{quoted}](name=TSM Piccaboo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MbGhNgA9,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2017-08-14T21:53:36.214+0000)

No thanks, that champion was strong for a year and a half and now she's finally out of meta and we're crying now for buffs. lel

Even at her strongest points there were multiple ADCs out performing her. You're basing her strengths solely on the fact she had the highest pick rate.

BALDG1VEN BOOMER1 votes

Out performing her in what way? Also it's like people don't magically play champions that are strong right? :thinking:

Sir Yamazuki1 votes

[{quoted}](name=TSM Piccaboo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MbGhNgA9,comment-id=000600000000,timestamp=2017-08-15T03:04:10.750+0000)

Out performing her in what way? Also it's like people don't magically play champions that are strong right? :thinking:

Yes, and No. What matters is perceived strength, not actual strength. If people really cared about what is really strong, those Caitlyn's would not have been building Ruunan's before it got nerfed. It was bad compared to Shiv. However, people perceived Runnan's Cait to be "op" even though that build only had a 51% win rate, now if you count 51% to be over powered then what is there to discuss?

BALDG1VEN BOOMER1 votes

Champions whom have a large play rate have an inflated win rate because of that, look up the most played champions and you'll see.

Also you still haven't answered my question of how other ADCs were out preforming her.

Sir Yamazuki1 votes

[{quoted}](name=TSM Piccaboo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MbGhNgA9,comment-id=00060000000000000000,timestamp=2017-08-15T13:46:54.914+0000)

Champions whom have a large play rate have an inflated win rate because of that, look up the most played champions and you'll see.

Pick rate doesn't impact win rate, the average skill level of the people picking the champion does (average games on champion, build used, skill order, etc). High pick rate=/=mostly in-experienced players picking them, neither does a low pick rate=mostly mains picking said champion.

Also you still haven't answered my question of how other ADCs were out preforming her.

The champion that wins more often on an average and when mastered is generally "better" and "out performing" the competition. Not only was Cait not the highest in terms of winning, but she was not the highest for other stats (damage, kills, deaths, etc), she was closer to the middle for all stats other than her pick rate. She even had match ups she would lose hard, now look at Twitch or Draven, they don't have any actual losing match up, their worst match ups are very close to even.

Cait also has one of the highest average games played on the champion, with champions like Trist having less than half the average games played as the champion and still does better than Cait, Xayah has lower games and hasn't been around long and does better than Cait. How is an ADC that loses even with some experience to champions that perform better with nearly none "very strong"?

Cait was only competitive when played by very experienced players, but Riot did not nerf Cait when played at a high level. They nerfed Cait's popular build as her first nerf. Ruunan's and her AS, Ruunan's was so bad that after the nerf when people swapped to Shiv her win rate went up anyways resulting in her getting nerfed again, but again they targeted nerfing the common players, which were not even winning a lot. After forcing the reliance on traps, which experienced players already did, guess what got nerfed finally? Cait is now worthless because Riot nerfed the popular play style before actually taking care of the problem.

This will just be yet another example of 1) why balancing around popularity is horrible and 2) why listening to the community for balancing is also horrible.

BALDG1VEN BOOMER1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sir Yamazuki,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MbGhNgA9,comment-id=000600000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-08-15T18:50:03.568+0000)

Pick rate doesn't impact win rate, the average skill level of the people picking the champion does (average games on champion, build used, skill order, etc). High pick rate=/=mostly in-experienced players picking them, neither does a low pick rate=mostly mains picking said champion.

Why does this matter when most sites aggregate data from Plat+ the top 5% of the player base, are you trying to tell me the top 5% don't know how to play their champion to the maximum strength?

The champion that wins more often on an average and when mastered is generally "better" and "out performing" the competition. Not only was Cait not the highest in terms of winning, but she was not the highest for other stats (damage, kills, deaths, etc), she was closer to the middle for all stats other than her pick rate. She even had match ups she would lose hard, now look at Twitch or Draven, they don't have any actual losing match up, their worst match ups are very close to even.

Caitlyn never had any losing match ups due to her safety in even if she lost lane a Caitlyn would be able to stay relevant in the game by farm.

Also "The champion that wins more often on an average and when mastered is generally "better" and "out performing" the competition." Not sure what you're proving with this point

Cait also has one of the highest average games played on the champion, with champions like Trist having less than half the average games played as the champion and still does better than Cait, Xayah has lower games and hasn't been around long and does better than Cait. How is an ADC that loses even with some experience to champions that perform better with nearly none "very strong"?

Because her strengths either require her to snowball in lane or don't snowball at all since the nerfs had hit her mid and late game. Her laning phase is virtually the same all the nerfs to her meant that she now has garabge scaling, with Runaans not stacking and AS nerfs, whilst most players complained that her laning phase was the most oppresive

Cait was only competitive when played by very experienced players, but Riot did not nerf Cait when played at a high level. They nerfed Cait's popular build as her first nerf. Ruunan's and her AS, Ruunan's was so bad that after the nerf when people swapped to Shiv her win rate went up anyways resulting in her getting nerfed again, but again they targeted nerfing the common players, which were not even winning a lot. After forcing the reliance on traps, which experienced players already did, guess what got nerfed finally? Cait is now worthless because Riot nerfed the popular play style before actually taking care of the problem.

No, here's the context from patch 7.11 when they decided to remove Runaan interaction

Because of its interaction with Headshot, Runaan’s Hurricane has been Caitlyn’s best option for area-of-effect and single-target damage. We’re removing this interaction so Caitlyn’s forced to choose which type of damage she wants to spec into. Similarly, we think Caitlyn’s at her finest when she’s sniping enemies with Headshot procs off of well-placed traps. Right now, she gets to have that as well as high sustained damage in teamfights via right-clicking. We’re hitting the Sheriff’s scaling with attack speed items to keep her focused on traps as the game progresses.

This will just be yet another example of 1) why balancing around popularity is horrible and 2) why listening to the community for balancing is also horrible.

Player opinion matters when making balance decision yes but depends what opinions you're talking about, also they didn't decide to nerf her because of her popularity they nerf her because she was straight up controlling a game from start to finish with high damage.

Achilles Herz4 votes

serves her right for being top adc for like 2 seasons

warpenguin5553 votes

Good. Caitlyn deserved it

Big Lincoln1 votes

pulsefire skin is done selling, riot has moved on from her for another few months hehe

Linna Excel1 votes

I think she needs her hurricane interaction back.

Sir Yamazuki2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Linna Excel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MbGhNgA9,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2017-08-14T21:20:12.456+0000)

I think she needs her hurricane interaction back.

Hurricane wasn't even that good on her, she always won more often with Shiv over Hurricane.

Serika Zero1 votes

rito doesn't care, she had her 'time in the spot light', now its time for tristana. On worlds path its going to be kalista, and so on. Expect some sort of balance to come to this game after LC$ ends

Mizaya1 votes

"I don't like this champion, so she deserves to suck"

No, that's not how balancing works. You don't want to be playing against Kog'Maws and Twitches that go unchallenged in lane, trust me.

PristineMender1 votes

I mean Caitlyn is "weak" in comparison to other adcs win rate wise which is reasonable. While she is "easy" to learn how to play and you can learn mechanics from her very well. She is still a very hard champion to master. I've watched several adc mains state she is one of the harder adc's to master mechanically because of all the things you can do with her. E>q>a, e>w>aa>aa. The list continues. Understanding that you get auto attack resets from head shot procs is seemingly unknown by so many people. I definitely don't enjoy the nerfs to Caitlyn, but even after the most recent ones to the q and traps I did very well for the next 3 games easily doing better than I had done the previous week I played her. At this point, I'm pretty sure the reason her win rate has dropped so drastically has very little to do with her as a champion. This is due to her still high pick/ban rate in the lcs.

Personally, from experience and just from what I've seen Caitlyn's win rate has dropped mostly due to her being forced to either snow ball or reach late game before she really becomes capable of carrying. Early game she still does fantastic against most match ups, but her nerfs have definitely impacted her weakest stage of the game in a negative manner. Mid game for Caitlyn is a very difficult area for her especially since her traps took such a large hit. Use to be she got through mid game by using trap positioning and the head shot procs to stay relevant but with the lower damage it's less punishing for the enemy team to step out of line or dive her.

This also leads into her being more team reliant now. While yes, she can still win lane and carry games it's much harder without a competent team to help her. I feel that if they reversed the base damage they pulled off the traps, but kept the scaling the same she would be in a great position.

Lastly, based on the idea of a competent team it's why she is still picked in lcs so frequently. Safe laner with good team fighting is very much desired in lcs. It's also why we are seeing several other champions such as sivir, Trist, and kalista being picked more and more. They all have very common aspects. Good aoe damage, tower shredders, tank shredders, and can one shot a carry.

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