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Who are you testing these jungle changes with

Towboat421·Jan 20, 2019·54 votes·15,430 views

Seriously who is on your internal testing team, you keep throwing us junglers these curve balls forcing us to gank earlier and earlier fight each other more and more and then you get mad at us for having too much of an impact on the game. What do you expect us to do? Farming puts you so far behind exp wise and since tiamat's price went up jungling as a bruiser got worse, seriously everytime a new jungle change patch roles out all the notable jungle mains are left collectivly scratching their heads and I couldnt agree more.

The only champ I can justify picking anymore in my arsenal is because he's capable of taking it to the enemy level 2 and run around the map and be everywhere at once. If i pick anythin else I feel like I am activly sabotaging my team, doesnt riot get top tier players to test shit for them? Do they not have junglers on standby to tell them hey yeah these changes are kinda ass, scuttle changes, exp changes, spawn changes, item pricing it all just keeps getting worse. Who is promoting these ideas, tell them to stop.

28 Comments

BestPudgeNAJan 20, 201942 votes

[deleted]

Towboat421Jan 20, 201916 votes

{quoted}

<Removed>

I approach mentions of this neutrally got a source? If that's true it would explain a lot.

BestPudgeNAJan 20, 20194 votes

{quoted}

I approach mentions of this neutrally got a source? If that's true it would explain a lot.

I was kinda joking. I know their Playtest team has 2 "high elo"(D4-masters) JG mains. But i don't know about the rest. I just know all the vocal members play Mid or the 2 bot lane roles.

AseraanJan 20, 20193 votes

AAAAAAAAahahhahahah nice one.

It started nice and easy and ended ina total bloodbath GOTCHA fam upvote.

BigFBearJan 20, 20196 votes

{quoted}

From what i've heard Riot has 2 JG mains on their team and they're both degenerate Kha mains that don't understand the role at all and just drool on themselves as they one shot people from stealth.

Ah ok... That's the reason why tank Junglers suck so hard.

GayFluffyUnicornJan 20, 20191 votes

Funny considering the jungle got reworked in s7 by a hardstuck silver rammus main and tank junglers were broken for the longest time.

That's why jungle is so piss easy now and the best role in the game.

But then all the graves, kha high elo abusers complain so they just kept doing what riot always does and made them broken again cuz surprisingly noone enjoys tanks.

Khä ZïxJan 20, 20192 votes

{quoted}

From what i've heard Riot has 2 JG mains on their team and they're both degenerate Kha mains that don't understand the role at all and just drool on themselves as they one shot people from stealth.

:(

BestPudgeNAJan 20, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Khä Zïx,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MXnUgOnE,comment-id=00000003,timestamp=2019-01-20T19:58:32.438+0000)

:(

xD

HügöJan 20, 20196 votes

They test it with their top laners "Can you finally fuck up the enemy jungler?" "Yes it is so much fun".

GlaricionJan 20, 20196 votes

Chadshinshin is always talking about how one of the key gameplay teams is missing a top main.

Was it their live design team, balance, or ...

Daddy AntsJan 20, 20195 votes

{quoted}

Chadshinshin is always talking about how one of the key gameplay teams is missing a top main.

Was it their live design team, balance, or ...

Live Gameplay Team is the balance team.

GayFluffyUnicornJan 20, 20192 votes

Live design team. They have a playtest and funnily weekend is on it. The camille one trick and honestly i cannot believe he has any say in what the live design team is doing. I just cannot imagine they'd do this shit to toplane and camille they have been doing.

VargrjalmerJan 21, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Chadshinshin is always talking about how one of the key gameplay teams is missing a top main.

Was it their live design team, balance, or ...

give us new top champs PLEASE and better bruiser items, right now there aren't enough build paths, it's not BAD, it's just incredibly monotonous.

Zero Skill TankJan 20, 20193 votes

If so, they are going the right direction then. Junglers totally can fuck up enemy top, why would it be bad for the opposite to be true?

HügöJan 20, 201910 votes

So being 2 levels behind isn't enough I guess? Not the roles fault when the players on the lane are bad.

ValyrianBladeJan 20, 20194 votes

Honestly, I think Jungle is an inherently imbalanced role and that's why it constantly needs changes.

Junglers get to choose to almost always put themselves in 2v1 or 3v2 situations. They also are almost always attacking with the element of surprise. As a result, as individuals they can ignore most of their weaknesses and only fight in favorable scenarios.

Further, outside of high levels of play, a player can never know whether an enemy champion is baiting or making a mistake. If you never go for the mistakes then you'll never get ahead in lane yourself - so you risk getting baited and killed.

In this kind of an environment, frankly the only way for junglers to not have a huge impact is for them to get less gold and XP than laners (they should be closer to the support than anyone else). That obviously would make a lot of junglers completely unviable, but otherwise Junglers are always going to feel like they have too large of an impact on the game.

If I can never punish my enemy laners mistakes (e.g. overstaying) if I don't have vision of the enemy jungler because of the chance it's a bait, then I can't express individual skill sufficiently in my lane. That makes any agency that laning has on the game almost disappear. Junglers alone get to control the game - they can choose when to gank based on the enemy jungler not being able to do anything about it. Laners need to play passively until they're strong enough to safely roam and act as additional junglers.

Aside from the few champions that can save an escape while punishing mistakes (e.g. LeBlanc can engage in with W and still has the escape with the recast) you simply can't not take risks.

KarfussJan 21, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Junglers get to choose to almost always put themselves in 2v1 or 3v2 situations. They also are almost always attacking with the element of surprise. As a result, as individuals they can ignore most of their weaknesses and only fight in favorable scenarios.

This is where Riot needs to EXPLICITLY state what they want the Jungler role to be.

Do you want them to farm in jungle, occasionally dick on the other Jungler, prep for team objectives and gank lanes? Like they do right now and always have?

Or do you want a roaming support with Smite that'll leech on whichever lane has the most potential? As every single change to laning and the jungle seem to push towards.

I genuinely have no clue what Riot expects from the role anymore. If their response is "Hey, 2v1 is unfair enough of that!" then we're all going to play River Kha'Zix, and totally ignore the jungle until there's no kill or plating up for grabs. Every single nerf to the jungle is giving Junglers less of an excuse to be there, so why would they NOT gank and sit in lanes?

VargrjalmerJan 21, 20193 votes

{quoted}

This is where Riot needs to EXPLICITLY state what they want the Jungler role to be.

Do you want them to farm in jungle, occasionally dick on the other Jungler, prep for team objectives and gank lanes? Like they do right now and always have?

Or do you want a roaming support with Smite that'll leech on whichever lane has the most potential? As every single change to laning and the jungle seem to push towards.

I genuinely have no clue what Riot expects from the role anymore. If their response is "Hey, 2v1 is unfair enough of that!" then we're all going to play River Kha'Zix, and totally ignore the jungle until there's no kill or plating up for grabs. Every single nerf to the jungle is giving Junglers less of an excuse to be there, so why would they NOT gank and sit in lanes?

It's pretty easy to keep up on exp now, just do the opposite of what riot wants. CAMP EVERYLANE

HÔPÊJan 20, 20194 votes

Idk who is testing this shit, but holy fuck, they are bad. They nerfed jungle several times and all those nerfs were incorrect. They had preseason to fucking rework jungle, but they didn't do anything.

ResolutionJan 20, 20193 votes

I honestly feel like they should review the entire balance team atm, decide where the problems keep occurring and replace key members. Someone higher up is just making bad call after bad call.

At what point do employees need to do better? It's already 2019... any other business would have shaken things up by now after the track record of poor performance.

SpecterVonBarenJan 21, 20194 votes

Show me a MOBA or moba like game that doesn't have players saying the balance team doesn't know what it's doing.

If none of them are able to do this then where do you expect to get people that CAN make perfect balance? Is anyone even really capable of doing it?

3TWarriorJan 21, 20191 votes

I don't know much about dota 2 but from my limited experience, if you do something stupid in dota 2, it costs you

you can become godlike, but if you rush in with a marksman against a fighter or assassin, you die

if you engage a tank as an assassin, you die

if you try to get close to a mage as a tank, you die

if you try to 1 v 5 as the support, you will instantly die as i'm fairly sure there are few supports in dota and the ones that deal damage are still focused on protecting allies and objective control

SpecterVonBarenJan 22, 20192 votes

And? That does not mean Dota 2 doesn't have people complaining about it or that it doesn't have problems.

3TWarriorJan 22, 20191 votes

I meant that compared to league, if you do something stupid, you either go big or go home to the nexus now

for instance, when marksmen can duel assassins? when a character that can do everything has no problems, or for some champions, not that I have any problems with Ekko any longer, but he was literally given a reset button...

NevrankroatonJan 21, 20193 votes

I mean, atm the jungler can pretty much be the same lvl of everyone else and it wasn't the case before. Early exp is the same, it is more like later the jungler can't have his impact early and be that high in term of experience at the same time (which is something other lane can't do except maybe some specific roaming champ and they got all kinda nerf heavily).

It is more like if the nerf is too much late or if it is enough that the jungler doesn't go out of control.

VargrjalmerJan 21, 20192 votes

I like the current meta, hate the upcoming changes. personally i think blue buff needs a buff, as it is even on ap jg's I start red buff bc, well... you either abuse the lvl 2 cheese meta or you lose. scuttle is kinda neat I think, you have a choice, do you rush to scuttle to get it first? ward it at start and clear krugs for lvl 3 so you have a chance to kill at scuttle? or do you just run up and smite steal it?

But seriously Riot doesn't like the prevalence of red buff lvl 2 gank cheese but wants to nerf farming? you realize the only viable strategy is to pick a high mobility high burst champ, take red buff, and lvl 2 cheese now right? you either faceroll the entire map or you're 2 lvl's down on exp.

here's a simple suggestion. BUFF jungle exp (first clear stays the same, second clear is higher exp from then on, or maybe clearing jg camps a within a certain time after spawn grants bonus xp to incentivize good pathing)

BUFF blue buff, hunters talisman gives you ALL the mana sustain you need early make it somethign to desire and covet, not something you give to your midlaner because it's useless to you anyways.

Lower the damage of things like electrocute and dark harvest OR replace them with utility type runes(including conqueror) that way, EVERY champion has something that's decent for their kit, there shouldn't be champions who don't have keystone's that compliment their playstyle (on champs like this I tend to take phase rush, unsealed spellbook, or glacial) the damage keystones make early ganking too strong for me to NOT do it.

there really isn't any opportunity cost for camping the fuck out of lanes anymore, kills and plates give you all the gold you need.

In the upcoming meta, there will be no junglers aside from bursty assassin ad champs.

time for river EVERYTHING.

CØulrophobiaJan 21, 20191 votes

Duo top meta incoming in 3 patches or less. Or at least smite toplane supports :P

The Bad TouchJan 21, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Seriously who is on your internal testing team, you keep throwing us junglers these curve balls forcing us to gank earlier and earlier fight each other more and more and then you get mad at us for having too much of an impact on the game. What do you expect us to do? Farming puts you so far behind exp wise and since tiamat's price went up jungling as a bruiser got worse, seriously everytime a new jungle change patch roles out all the notable jungle mains are left collectivly scratching their heads and I couldnt agree more.

The only champ I can justify picking anymore in my arsenal is because he's capable of taking it to the enemy level 2 and run around the map and be everywhere at once. If i pick anythin else I feel like I am activly sabotaging my team, doesnt riot get top tier players to test shit for them? Do they not have junglers on standby to tell them hey yeah these changes are kinda ass, scuttle changes, exp changes, spawn changes, item pricing it all just keeps getting worse. Who is promoting these ideas, tell them to stop.

Pretty much came to a similar conclusion myself. End up spamming WW/Jax /Xin when I get stuck with jungle.

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