"I'm not high elo but I have high elo game knowledge"

HateDaddy··47 votes·8,538 views

Pretty edgy title, but believe it or not in a lot of ways this is going to be a big help to the mindset of lower elos. Let's not hide from the facts folks, the majority of the people on these boards are gold elo or below. And because of this on a board dedicated to the games balance, players elos often get brought up. And in response, many low elo players say "well I'm low elo but I have high elo game knowledge!" This is where things get pretty hot and I ask you read this before dismiss it angirly

Quite simply put: no you don't. I consider the high elo threshold to be right at plat 1 and I would consider the knowledge of a diamond 1 player to be better (but it's likely the plat 1 players understands the game at a high level well enough to have a sensible discussion with much higher elo players). You might point out I'm plat 1 and this is why I feel that way. No, I was diamond season 4 and I've always felt this way - I simply haven't grinded many games yet. I just wanted to get that out of the way because I know someone would likely bring it up.

Back on topic: I'm going to tell the lower elo folks here something that might surprise you. You can have shit mechanics and still get decently high elo. Why? Because of game knowledge. Game knowledge alone can easily get you mid diamond, after that point, your mechanics do start becoming more and more important.

When I hear a lower elo player say they have the high elo game knowledge, it's actually something concerns me. Because, in reality, if the lower elo player did, he wouldn't be low elo. You might watch streams of high elos, you might read blogs of high elos and pick up some things but that doesn't give you their game knowledge. The only way to truly get a real perspective of it is to play in it yourself. And the counter argument to this is often "well being high elo doesn't mean you have high elo game knowledge." This simply isn't true. Sure, there might be other players with their elo with much better knowledge but in reality, their knowledge is good enough to be in high elo, which will be above and beyond that of a lower elo players. In many cases, when this argument is brought up, it's because a high elo player is shit at explaining, arguing and discussing knowledge. There's no way their knowledge is shit though.

I gotta admit, this came off as extremely elitist and the truth is, it probably is. But the reason it's so concerning is if, as a low elo, you have the mindset that you have high elo game knowledge, you'll have this idea that it's only a matter of improving mechanics as you think your knowledge is sufficient when it isnt. This will lead to a lot of bad habits and the truth is, if you're not focusing on the mental aspect of the game and gaining more knowledge, you're likely not improving much. Your mechanics aren't going to improve much playing against bronze and silvers because they won't be challenged after a certain point. This is the issue most "elo hell" believers have, they're convinced they know about the game when they don't, they chirp off buzzwords they hear on streams and LCS videos and think it doesn't need to get better when in reality, it's what's holding them back.

How is this relevant to GB? Because it makes discussing balance with the people here a pain in the ass. I will never dismiss any argument based on elo unless the argument is based on soley the level of play in a comparison of high elo vs low elo. But at a certain point, you have to understand that higher elo players are going to just know more about the game than you and as you want them to not be so dismissive of you because of your elo, you need to be less dismissive of them. That's not to say that high elos can't work on not being elitist ass holes because believe me, a lot of them can. But I will take their word over that of a lower elo players any day. And while that may be frustrating to hear, it's the truth. So when discussing balance, understand I will never be dismissive of you because of your elo. If your argument is well thought out, I will happily discuss it and even hopefully one of two scenarios occur: I was misinformed and learned something or I was able to teach somethig. Both are awesome. If you're bringing up anecdotal evidence however, I will point it out because high elo > low elo.

So tl;dr, elo does matter in game knowledge and all elo players need to realize this too. And if you ever have the mindset that your game knowledge can't improve (aka you can't be wrong), you'll never get better and discussing anything balance wise with you is a waste.

218 Comments

disregardable34 votes

I'm not going to bother to read the low elo berating in this thread. Why? I've never seen anyone say that they "have high elo game knowledge". Nor do I think that people believing that they're being held down by their teams means that they think that.

Being poor at the game doesn't somehow mean that your sense of logic is flawed. People are capable of realizing when someone is better at them at the game. They're also capable of understanding how things happen and how games should play out, even if that doesn't happen in their own games.

N30NP4NDA13 votes

I'm only in bronze because i have bad mechanics and over 9000 ping. I deserve challenjour.

City of Toronto14 votes

[{quoted}](name=The AFK Farmer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MVEFxfv2,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-04-21T03:56:38.716+0000)

I'm not going to bother to read the low elo berating in this thread. Why? I've never seen anyone say that they "have high elo game knowledge". Nor do I think that people believing that they're being held down by their teams means that they think that.

Being poor at the game doesn't somehow mean that your sense of logic is flawed. People are capable of realizing when someone is better at them at the game. They're also capable of understanding how things happen and how games should play out, even if that doesn't happen in their own games.

So you only selectively read, is what I'm getting from you. You didn't see all those posts from low elo players saying they have good knowledge of the game? That they're enough to challenge a diamond player's knowledge? You're not even going to bother reading OP's arguments?

It's so easy for low elo players to claim that they understand, but you guys really don't. Sometimes for the very low ranked, your very foundations and basic premises of the game are so off that you can't comprehend what we're saying. This isn't to say that it's always the case, but sometimes it really is.

You claim that just because you're poor at the game doesn't mean that your sense of logic is flawed, and that low ranked people are capable of realizing when someone is better than them at the game, and also that they're capable of understanding how things happen and how games should play out even if that doesn't happen in their own games. What you're thinking of is the most basic of understandings, but what you fail to understand is the more complex ideas behind it. League isn't the static game you make it out to be, you can never simply "understand how things happen and how games should play out". It doesn't happen in your games, you have no experience with it. You may have the knowledge to overcome the initial hurdle, but then you're presented with even more branching decisions with obscure answers, and so on and so forth. You guys never run into these situations, so how in the world can you be proficient at it?

Perhaps there is a phrasing issue. Sure, you guys can understand the basic processes of the game. But can you claim to understand the complex and advanced processes of the game, and as well as a diamond player at that?

disregardable4 votes

That's a logically sound argument, but the only way you're going to make this argument convincing to me is through examples. I can think of lots of things I can't do and LOTS of ways that other players are better than me. I can't think of anything in this game that I do not understand. This game is designed so that it's easy for young teenagers to understand. What makes it a sport over a game is its consistent logic and very limited rules.

City of Toronto6 votes

[{quoted}](name=The AFK Farmer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MVEFxfv2,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2015-04-21T04:36:05.421+0000)

That's a logically sound argument, but the only way you're going to make this argument convincing to me is through examples. I can think of lots of things I can't do and LOTS of ways that other players are better than me. I can't think of anything in this game that I do not understand. This game is designed so that it's easy for young teenagers to understand. What makes it a sport over a game is its consistent logic and very limited rules.

The onus is also on you to prove that you ARE capable of such things. Let me make an example, though. Forgive me if I insult you in any way, but I need to make my point clear. I'm just going to go through your immediate match history and ask for your reasoning.

  1. Why did you build hextech revolver on Lux?
  2. Why did you build void staff on Akali?
  3. Why did you build boots of lucidity and brutalizer on Udyr?
  4. Why build IE BT first two items on Tristana?
  5. Why build Seraph's Embrace on Annie?
  6. Why did you finish Liandry's on Katarina?

EDIT: Do try to answer this as quickly as possible please. I'm not going to call you out on it but this shouldn't take very much thought at all. I can talk about your build within 5-10 seconds of seeing it, it's rather simple.

disregardable6 votes

Spending about 3 seconds each.

  1. Because it was aram. I wanted the sustain.
  2. Because it was aram. Never had enough money for rod when I died.
  3. To get early 40% CDR (boots) and because the game was almost over (brutalizer).
  4. The BT was a bad choice. By that point I was sure we had lost, and I was just hoping I wouldn't die more. So, defensive while not throwing my build off.
  5. Because it was ARAM. Can't just sit around for the right opportunity, just spam Q/W.
  6. Because it was ARAM. They had 3 tanks.

Did you notice that all but 2 of these were ARAMs?

Also, not really sure what your intention was with these questions. All you seem to be doing is proving my point. I can easily understand those champions and items and when to use them. It's very easy to see that I probably shouldn't have done something in hindsight (which shows that I understand them).

City of Toronto9 votes

[{quoted}](name=The AFK Farmer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MVEFxfv2,comment-id=00000001000000000000,timestamp=2015-04-21T05:17:24.832+0000)

Spending about 3 seconds each.

  1. Because it was aram. I wanted the sustain.
  2. Because it was aram. Auras are better there.
  3. To get early 40% CDR (boots) and because the game was almost over (brutalizer).
  4. The BT was a bad choice. By that point I was sure we had lost, and I was just hoping I wouldn't die more. So, defensive while not throwing my build off.
  5. Because it was ARAM. Can't just sit around for the right opportunity, just spam Q/W.
  6. Because it was ARAM. They had 3 tanks.

Did you notice that all but 2 of these were ARAMs?

Also, not really sure what your intention was with these questions. All you seem to be doing is proving my point. I can easily understand those champions and items and when to use them. It's very easy to see that I probably shouldn't have done something in hindsight (which shows that I understand them).

Yes, I do realize the game mode for every one of them.

  1. Sustain from revolver is rather lackluster on most champions, Lux included. You're better off going frontloaded AP damage.
  2. ? Not sure what auras has to do with void staff. Void staff is wasted buy because only one person on their team has MR.
  3. Okay, I can overlook this if you yolo-bought brutalizer. If it wasn't an end of the game yolo-buy, I would call you out on it for going over the CDR limit and availability of better alternatives.
  4. Yes. The BT WAS a bad choice, however you decided to go with it anyways. However, your philosophy is wrong. You screwed yourself over by committing to the BT, your best choice was to just buy a scepter and finish your shiv/PD. By committing to finishing a 3500g purchase, you really sealed your own fate that game. BT would in no way help you survive, PD and Shiv would do that much better for much lower cost. So, this in fact DID throw off your entire build, build and buy timing is very important.
  5. Exactly, it's an ARAM. Constant brawling, plus a need for sustenance in HP and mana. RoA is the superior buy here because while it does have a charging time, it is significantly steadier than Seraph's. The increased HP helps you fight sustained fights vs their comp, Seraph's does not. You cannot burst them down, they will DPS you down. Not to mention the passive from catalyst.
  6. You don't finish liandry's on Katarina. Haunting guise is all you need, nothing past that. Liandry's does nothing for Kat, who relies on upfront damage and high AP ratios, and most importantly deleting the squishies. You win teamfights not through fighting the tanks, but by deleting the squishies for resets so you can whittle down the tanks along with the rest of your team. You could have finished Void staff with the gold you spent completing liandry's. The burn does nothing for you.

And once again, yes I did realize they are ARAM. It's all accounted for. Take a look at what I'm saying, and think again as to whether I'm really proving your point or my own. You claim that you easily understand those champions, items, and why some were problematic, but from what I see, you don't. You say you understand because hindsight, but judging from your explanation, you don't understand why.

Shinjusuke4 votes

You'll notice how, as soon as you prove your point, he disappears. Cute.

Baron of Bread5 votes

You'll notice that the post was 2 hours ago and AFK might have not gotten around to responding. Give them some time and then call them out.

disregardable1 votes

I misread when you pointed out void staff, I thought you said abyssal. I edited it in the post above. I started responding to each point, but when I got to the bottom paragraph, fuck it. You'll completely dismiss anything I say because I "don't understand why". Even though I just agreed with you. You may as well just say "I must be right, and you must be wrong, because your Elo is lower".

Don't know why I bothered in the first place. Just see my first post.

City of Toronto8 votes

[{quoted}](name=The AFK Farmer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MVEFxfv2,comment-id=0000000100000000000000000002,timestamp=2015-04-21T06:39:25.660+0000)

I misread when you pointed out void staff, I thought you said abyssal. I edited it in the post above. I started responding to each point, but when I got to the bottom paragraph, fuck it. You'll completely dismiss anything I say because I "don't understand why". Even though I just agreed with you. You may as well just say "I must be right, and you must be wrong, because your Elo is lower".

Don't know why I bothered in the first place. Just see my first post.

Sorry, you're just acting indignant because you know you have no logical rebuttal to make. It's quite sad that you would try to pull that.

I gave you very specific reasoning as to why you didn't understand it. Sure, you agreed that BT was a bad buy on the surface, but you got the reasoning wrong. This goes back to my point that while you may understand the basic concepts, you don't understand the more complex nuances.

I gave you very specific reasoning for everything, well-backed, and didn't mention elo anywhere. How can you possibly accuse me of exercising my authority as higher elo?

Sorry to say this, but I tried giving you a chance. I left elo out of the rational discussions, but as usual, the bronze player caves in and pulls the "whatever mr. diamond. u look down on us all" when I rationally and non-authoritatively rebut your discussion points, and you have nothing left to say. This exemplifies how the majority of discussions go between bronze and diamond arguments.

It's funny because you and many other bronze players like yourself complain about how Diamonds just talk down on Bronze players and dismiss them as "bronze know-it-all condescending fool not worth my time" without explaining why, just citing their ranks as proof and how you're sick of it when you try to offer a reasonable argument and they don't listen, yet you are doing exactly that right now. Berating me and dismissing me as a "diamond know-it-all condescending fool not worth my time" while refusing to listen when I reasonably and rationally explain things to you. It's also funny how you wanted me to give examples to convince you, and as soon as I do just that you pull that shit.

Fact of the matter is, you are not on par with me knowledge-wise. I would say that to you regardless of your rank just based on your reasoning. If you disagree, then I must say that's a bit delusional. As harsh as it sounds, YOU ARE STUCK IN BRONZE 5. There has to be SOMETHING I'm doing right/better than you. You wouldn't be able to win at gold, plat, or diamond even with my mechanics. Similarly, if you sat behind me and coached me on item builds and strategies while I played and exercised the best of my mechanics, I would not be able to win at a plat/diamond level.

disregardable2 votes

I'm not criticizing you for looking down on me because it's a stereotype. I already argued in my original post that simply making a mistake in game was not proof that I didn't understand the game. You pointed out a mistake that I already knew existed, and then you said that making the mistake proved that I didn't understand the game. At that point I realized there was no point in continuing the discussion. You didn't ask me to state why the mistake was wrong, you just asked why I made the decision. If you wanted to know why I thought the mistake was wrong, I'd have said that BT really doesn't synergize with bursty Tristana's playstyle, and I wasn't able to utilize the passive enough to make it worth. There's really not much to say to "You made a mistake, so you can't talk to us".

Try finding something I actually don't understand if you want to talk. (Hint: you'd be better off getting into team comps and general strategy than something as cut and dry as champions and items).

City of Toronto7 votes

[{quoted}](name=The AFK Farmer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MVEFxfv2,comment-id=000000010000000000000000000200000000,timestamp=2015-04-21T07:49:44.978+0000)

I'm not criticizing you for looking down on me because it's a stereotype. I already argued in my original post that simply making a mistake in game was not proof that I didn't understand the game. You pointed out a mistake that I already knew existed, and then you said that making the mistake proved that I didn't understand the game. At that point I realized there was no point in continuing the discussion. You didn't ask me to state why the mistake was wrong, you just asked why I made the decision. If you wanted to know why I thought the mistake was wrong, I'd have said that BT really doesn't synergize with bursty Tristana's playstyle, and I wasn't able to utilize the passive enough to make it worth. There's really not much to say to "You made a mistake, so you can't talk to us".

Try finding something I actually don't understand if you want to talk. (Hint: you'd be better off getting into team comps and general strategy than something as cut and dry as champions and items).

Stop trying to misconstrue what I'm saying. You know damn well I specifically said that although you understood that BT was a wrong purchase, you didn't understand why. I even specifically stated why BT was the wrong purchase. I never said anything even remotely close to "you made a mistake so you can't talk to us". You need to understand this.

I. Gave. You. Rational. Explanations. Stop. Trying. To. Misrepresent. My. Arguments.

Also, you can't just say "yeah? well talk about something I actually understand so I can rebut it and arrive to the false conclusion that i am knowledgeable". Your lack of knowledge in champions and items (which isn't cut and dry, by the way) is a lack of knowledge, no two ways about it. It's just as important as general strategy and team comps. You can't just say "nah that doesn't count".

That said, team comps and general strategy are so fluid and vary so much depending on each individual situation and elo (yes, strategies differ depending on elo) that it's nearly impossible to have to discussion on that over the boards. It's something neither you can prove, nor I can disprove over the forums. However, statistical evidence puts the onus on you to prove that you, currently in the lowest ranking bracket, ARE capable of it.

disregardable1 votes

you didn't understand why

But I did.

Your lack of knowledge in champions and items

Does not exist. (that's why it doesn't count, btw)

What I do have is a lack foresight. Example. Shortly after I had just gotten Gnar, I was spamming him constantly. One game I got stuck with last pick, and they wanted me to support. Gnar support, how bad could it be? He was manaless, he had cc, he turned into a mega tank, what could go wrong?

Oh right. He can't attack the cs and the enemy ADC outranges him, so he can't transform.

Did I see it coming in champion select? NOPE. What about as soon as the game started? NOPE. It took me a solid 8 minutes to figure out what the problem was. Once I figured it out, did I start building around me staying in mini-form 90% of the time? NOPE. I kept building tank.

Does that mean I do not understand Gnar support? Does that mean I shouldn't have a say in his balance?

I don't see why it should. Maybe that's where I should've started. Even if it WAS possible to not understand champions or this game, why does that mean we don't have a say in balance? Riot has to moderately cover for all of the people that don't play the game in its optimal way.

City of Toronto6 votes

[{quoted}](name=The AFK Farmer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MVEFxfv2,comment-id=00000001000000000000000000020000000000000000,timestamp=2015-04-21T08:33:03.971+0000)

But I did.

You most definitely did not. I read what you "would have said". Two things wrong with that statement.

  1. Tristana is not a "bursty" champion. She can have burst, but so can Vayne if you combo a condemn. That doesn't make Vayne bursty. Graves = bursty.
  2. If Tristana is bursty, as you say she is, then BT WOULD synergize with her. BT synergizes extremely well with bursty champions because of its high AD ratio.

I already gave you the reasoning behind why BT is a bad purchase in one of my previous answers. Don't misconstrue this as the reasoning, this is just pointing out the flaws in your logic/knowledge.

Does not exist. (that's why it doesn't count, btw)

What? Of course it exists, and of course foresight is a large part of knowledge. Even a fool can come to the conclusion that something isn't working out if it clearly fails. Hindsight 20/20, but hindsight doesn't make you knowledgeable. If a certain strategy or build fails blatantly, the ONLY conclusion you can arrive at is that it's wrong. This does NOT vouch for your knowledge.

What I do have is a lack foresight. Example. Shortly after I had just gotten Gnar, I was spamming him constantly. One game I got stuck with last pick, and they wanted me to support. Gnar support, how bad could it be? He was manaless, he had cc, he turned into a mega tank, what could go wrong?

Oh right. He can't attack the cs and the enemy ADC outranges him, so he can't transform.

Did I see it coming in champion select? NOPE. What about as soon as the game started? NOPE. It took me a solid 8 minutes to figure out what the problem was. Once I figured it out, did I start building around me staying in mini-form 90% of the time? NOPE. I kept building tank.

Foresight is one thing, understanding is another. If you cannot understand and draw conclusions from your understanding and knowledge given the necessary information, then you don't understand it. What you're doing is drawing conclusions from results. If you were not given results, you would never be able to draw correct conclusions. Am I wrong? That's your methodology.

Now apply this to theory crafting. You throw out a completely bizarre theory which is based on understanding and, get this, FORESIGHT. Let's say Riot implements your idea despite your completely lack of foresight as you yourself admit. The idea turns out to be completely HORRIBLE because you have not experienced its results, you don't know how it reacts in a live environment. You don't have the foresight to judge whether it's balanced or not. Following your own logic, you can draw conclusions based on established facts or observable data, however you do not have the foresight to predict unforeseen or unknown circumstances. Thus, you are not properly qualified to make balance suggestions/changes.

Does that mean I do not understand Gnar support? Does that mean I shouldn't have a say in his balance?

I don't see why it should.

Balance suggestions includes foresight.

ZeeDrakon3 votes

{quoted}

If a certain strategy or build fails blatantly, the ONLY conclusion you can arrive at is that it's wrong.

Again i generally totally agree with you on the rest of the post, but i have to disagree right here. especially in league you can make the right decision and still have a bad outcome, and that does not make this decision wrong, since the outcome is decided my much more factors than just the decision itself.

for example, if i am sieging the enemy inhibitor turret with 5 man and decide to initiate a dive on one of their 3 remaining members, and me or someone else misplays heavily and we get aced, that doesnt mean the decision is wrong by itself. it was more likely that it would have a positive outcome that couldve easily lead to us finishing the game, so it certainly wouldve been worth the risk. but since the outcome is decided by my and my 4 teammates abilities to execute the dive properly aswell by the 3 enemy players abilities to counter it properly the decision might be right but the outcome bad

City of Toronto3 votes

{quoted}

If a certain strategy or build fails blatantly, the ONLY conclusion you can arrive at is that it's wrong.

Again i generally totally agree with you on the rest of the post, but i have to disagree right here. especially in league you can make the right decision and still have a bad outcome, and that does not make this decision wrong, since the outcome is decided my much more factors than just the decision itself.

for example, if i am sieging the enemy inhibitor turret with 5 man and decide to initiate a dive on one of their 3 remaining members, and me or someone else misplays heavily and we get aced, that doesnt mean the decision is wrong by itself. it was more likely that it would have a positive outcome that couldve easily lead to us finishing the game, so it certainly wouldve been worth the risk. but since the outcome is decided by my and my 4 teammates abilities to execute the dive properly aswell by the 3 enemy players abilities to counter it properly the decision might be right but the outcome bad

Yeah I just responded to the same comment by another user. I exaggerated my point in a bid to try to get him to understand, but this statement is indeed false. I should have said "reasonably come to the conclusion that".

MysteryinShadow11 votes

I mean, Rivington was streaming today, and he himself said, "Yeah, I understand this game, I know what goes on in it and how it goes on, but because I don't actually get to play it consistently enough, I flat out don't have the mechanics needed". Probably wasn't too relevant, just decided to say it cause he's a caster for NA LCS, and he's only Silver I (And climbing though, I believe).

City of Toronto10 votes

{quoted}

I mean, Rivington was streaming today, and he himself said, "Yeah, I understand this game, I know what goes on in it and how it goes on, but because I don't actually get to play it consistently enough, I flat out don't have the mechanics needed". Probably wasn't too relevant, just decided to say it cause he's a caster for NA LCS, and he's only Silver I (And climbing though, I believe).

And that's why he never does any analysis, only superficial shoutcasting. Forgot the word, Colour casting? Play by play? I don't know.

If you listen to his actual attempts at even a bit of analysis here and there, it's kind of cringeworthy how wrong he is half the time. It's overlooked though, because that's not his role. Good that you should mention Riv, he's a prime example for this cause. He doesn't attempt to do the analysis because he is unqualified to do so, he is low elo. He leaves it to his diamond caster-buddies.

CubedJustice2 votes

Riv does have the best voice, though.

U RITE HATEDADDY7 votes

U RITE THO HATEDADDY

DrCyanide6 votes

A hypothetical case for discussion:

Let's say there is a low elo player that while in game, losses focus. They can't focus on what they really need to do enough to do it themselves or get their team to do it in any consistent manner. However, if you sit this player in front of a replay, either their own or of a higher elo players game, they can pause and explain to you exactly what one team or the other did right, what they were trying to pull off, etc.

Because of their inability to perform that kind of analysis in real time while in game, they are low elo. Yet because they can perform the detailed analysis of high elo games, they could potentially coach a team of players with higher elo than themselves. Where would they fit into this mess of game knowledge by elo?

MAZZ1M02 votes

By the OP's standards, he'd be an outlier. I think this is far more common than it appears though. Anyone that has it in them to improve will recognize their own mistakes. I usually know when I f%$^ up, my friends do too. It's just not something that's easily observable in others. Also, there's the hindsight argument. It's easier to learn from mistakes than it is to infer something would/wouldn't work.

Bethor Kookalian6 votes

I 100% agree with your tl;dr. I agree with most of your main post. I just disagree with the slope of game knowledge and mechanics as a function of MMR. On the one hand, I know there's a few golds and a rare silver or two who can theory craft with the best of them, and there's certianly mechanical players who'd be a terror if they just figured out how to respect game knowledge as a form of skill. Personally, I'm a mid-gold player who's been as high as Plat V, and while I don't have quite the game knowledge of a challenger, I certainly feel confident to say that it is one of my greatest strengths as a player. Mechanically, I'm atrocious, and an embarrassment to everyone who's ever made Plat, but I study. I read reddit, I read the boards, I read redtracker, I read the forums in community I'm a part of, hell, I even go exploring through some DotA stuff looking for things that can be applied to League. And I discuss. I live by the creed that I can't hold an opinion unless I can justify it to others. Simply believing something isn't good enough for me, I gotta know by being able to explain. So yeah, I think I have an above average game sense, but I'll admit, it's probably not as good as the average Diamond's game sense, but I think its partially because I'm not good enough to appreciate the mechanical differences between Diamond and Gold players(cause there is one of those, too).

MaizeCraze5 votes

I'm not sure what qualifies at "high elo knowledge". I've been playing LoL since May of 2012, and as a result know every skill, general combos, and counterplay tactics for every champion in the game. Of course their is room for improvement; what my point here is that I have a very solid framework of how the game works.

Sure, I may only be Silver 2, but in my arguments about balance I stick to three main components; logic, reasoning, and examples. Maybe it's because I'm an engineer, but for me to accept an argument it must be based off of logos and cannot be based off of pathos. Just because someone feels a certain way does validate their points being argued.

City of Toronto8 votes

{quoted}

I'm not sure what qualifies at "high elo knowledge". I've been playing LoL since May of 2012, and as a result know every skill, general combos, and counterplay tactics for every champion in the game. Of course their is room for improvement; what my point here is that I have a very solid framework of how the game works.

Sure, I may only be Silver 2, but in my arguments about balance I stick to three main components; logic, reasoning, and examples. Maybe it's because I'm an engineer, but for me to accept an argument it must be based off of logos and cannot be based off of pathos. Just because someone feels a certain way does validate their points being argued.

Yes, your credibility must be based on logos and not pathos, which is why I'll call you out on your previous statement. You have nothing logical to show for your "solid framework of how the game works". You may feel that way, but in reality you could be completely wrong. In fact, I'm inclined to say so because you have nothing logical to support that claim. You have not proven yourself in relation to the other players of the game.

For example. I can claim to have adequate knowledge of being an engineer, however I have never undergone grad school for engineering while you have. I have observed others going through it, I have observed situations that I'm not involved in, and I have built little projects for myself. Is this enough to validate myself as an able-bodied engineer, and at the level of someone who went through college studying engineering? At some point it just because living vicariously through others and failing to realize that their success is not your own.

BerserkGoldfish7 votes

{quoted}

Yes, your credibility must be based on logos and not pathos, which is why I'll call you out on your previous statement. You have nothing logical to show for your "solid framework of how the game works". You may feel that way, but in reality you could be completely wrong. In fact, I'm inclined to say so because you have nothing logical to support that claim. You have no proven yourself in relation to the other players of the game.

neither do a lot of high elo players. they use the "Im plat, I must know more about the game that a bronze player" excuse, which is very very flawed logos.

Once again ill go back to sports. who do you think knows more about the fundamentals and the game of basketball, the relatively short, not quite as athletic dude from suburban Pennsylvania who decided to coach the game, but never gets to play a lick of pro basketball (this example is Bobby Knight)? or the 7 foot super athletic guy he gets to go to his school and goes on to the pros?

Knowledge and Mechanical application are 2 separate things.

All the knowledge about LoL in the world wont make someone have a high ELO(will help get to mid, sometimes though, from counterbuilding etc, but even then, still highly mechanical skill based), it will make them knowledgeable, and who knows, they may make a great team coach.

City of Toronto5 votes

{quoted}

neither do a lot of high elo players. they use the "Im plat, I must know more about the game that a bronze player" excuse, which is very very flawed logos.

Once again ill go back to sports. who do you think knows more about the fundamentals and the game of basketball, the relatively short, not quite as athletic dude from suburban Pennsylvania who decided to coach the game, but never gets to play a lick of pro basketball (this example is Bobby Knight)? or the 7 foot super athletic guy he gets to go to his school and goes on to the pros?

Knowledge and Mechanical application are 2 separate things.

All the knowledge about LoL in the world wont make someone have a high ELO(will help get to mid, sometimes though, from counterbuilding etc, but even then, still highly mechanical skill based), it will make them knowledgeable, and who knows, they may make a great team coach.

LoL is a largely more intellectual game than basketball is. You are also not nearly as mechanically gated as a short person would be physically gated.

Also, the "I'm plat, I know more than bronze players" in itself has no valid argument behind it. If ever you see this as a standalone explanation with said person not making any previous attempts to explain it, then sure you can question its validity. But boy, is it ever true 99% of the time. We can go into technicalities, but the logos here can be argued by the fact that he is plat. He is in the top 7% of players, and the bronze is at the bottom 25%. Statistically speaking, the plat player is most definitely better than the bronze player.

BerserkGoldfish2 votes

{quoted}

LoL is a largely more intellectual game than basketball is. You are also not nearly as mechanically gated as a short person would be physically gated.

well it can be, my fast twitch is quite off from a TBI incurred in the army and all the meds im on for PTSD, I know ill never have the reaction time or quick twitch to make it to very high elos and then we have the arguments of bad computers making skillshots harder, not having gaming setups to like hotkey ward hops and whatever.

like personally I play on a $300 four year old laptop with a $10 wireless mouse from office max, its a noted disadvantage to someone playing on a high end gaming set-up, but I still win sometimes, I think im still over 50% winrate this season.

City of Toronto3 votes

{quoted}

well it can be, my fast twitch is quite off from a TBI incurred in the army and all the meds im on for PTSD, I know ill never have the reaction time or quick twitch to make it to very high elos and then we have the arguments of bad computers making skillshots harder, not having gaming setups to like hotkey ward hops and whatever.

like personally I play on a $300 four year old laptop with a $10 wireless mouse from office max, its a noted disadvantage to someone playing on a high end gaming set-up, but I still win sometimes, I think im still over 50% winrate this season.

You only need REALLY good mechanics heading into REALLY high elo, like D3/D2+ You can make an argument for even lower, fine. In reality, you don't really need good mechanics until plat-low diamond. Up until there, the majority of it is knowledge and game sense.

There are some players that have reached diamond without arms. Some players reached gold/plat without LIMBS, he plays with his mouth and head.

There are also some players that are in challenger playing on a 15FPS laptop at lowest resolution and settings, using the touchpad.

Do you think either of them climbed that high based on mechanics? Nope, it's game knowledge. You can put me on a $300 four year old laptop and while it would reduce my ability, I can guarantee that I'd still reach platinum.

For example, I'm going to call you out on your knowledge of the game as I did the other person, sorry. Just going through your match history quickly, can you explain to me why you build two RoAs on Anivia and Karthus, seemingly going for a 3rd on Karthus? Why sightstone on Anivia? Why triforce on Fiora? Why IE shiv on Gnar? These builds are in no way optimal.

BerserkGoldfish2 votes

For example, I'm going to call you out on your knowledge of the game as I did the other person, sorry. Just going through your match history quickly, can you explain to me why you build two RoAs on Anivia and Karthus, seemingly going for a 3rd on Karthus? Why sightstone on Anivia? Why triforce on Fiora? Why IE shiv on Gnar? These builds are in no way optimal.

okay: RoA does oddly enough provide good stats and does in fact stack, I was playing anivia support, also karthus support.

Triforce on Fiora-ARAM also so that my AAs after lunges did more damage early

the gnar thing, because I was messing around? not everyone throws their all and everything into every game, some people do like to have fun.

City of Toronto3 votes

{quoted}

okay: RoA does oddly enough provide good stats and does in fact stack, I was playing anivia support, also karthus support.

Triforce on Fiora-ARAM also so that my AAs after lunges did more damage early

the gnar thing, because I was messing around? not everyone throws their all and everything into every game, some people do like to have fun.

Sure 2x RoA works, but in no way is it optimal. Charge up time + gold better used on other items greatly reduce the value of a second RoA. You will never see double RoA in higher-ranked games.

Tri-force Firoa is not good cost-efficiency wise. Fiora scales much harder off of AD ratios, and triforce just doesn't give that to Fiora. Sure you gain a Sheen active, but that quickly becomes rather useless in comparison to flat AD. Also, it costs 3703 gold. You could almost buy a god damn IE for that price, or LW + Brutalizer and finish that into a youmuu's later on. Or hexdrinker versus that team.

The gnar thing, okay. That's understandable.

The sightstone on Anivia, just upgrade your trinket and buy standalone wards. Sightstone is not worth that gold investment.

jv21blU7oD2 votes

{quoted}

You only need REALLY good mechanics heading into REALLY high elo, like D3/D2+ You can make an argument for even lower, fine. In reality, you don't really need good mechanics until plat-low diamond. Up until there, the majority of it is knowledge and game sense.

This part here is 100% true. My overall skill level is D4 but sometimes I'll get into D3/D2 after I've had winning streaks and majority of the times I will get outmatched in lane and my poor mechanical skills get completely exposed. I often have to rely on my teammates to carry me in such games.

HateDaddy5 votes

@Kouga

This is an incredibly well written post. Despite its length, it doesn't ramble and it's very straight to the point with sound reasoning. I'm going to be as thorough in my response as I possibly can be and if I miss something, please point it out.

A good chunk of my post is very broad in nature. Not because I want to intentionally dis-include anything but because the nature of my belief behind this has an extreme depth to it that takes quite a bit of time and effort to explore - to be quite honest with you, I doubt most people are interested in reading that. But because you brought it up, I'll explain.

When I say game knowledge, this excludes very basic concepts of the game that any average level 30 player should have. Game knowledge isn't exactly a stat that can be measured, the higher the elo, the higher level the play is. The higher the level the play, the more complex the game becomes at a very minute level. While a lot of basics are still shared between all elos, as I've noted, it gets a bit more complex.

So when I make this statement, I make it on the backbone that there's no way a silver player can understand how to play in a diamond game. The diamond game will be much more punishing of mistakes, even the smallest positional mistakes that are often made and left unpunished in low elo. The game and the decision making are played at a much faster level. Snowballing is much harder because people know how to punish mistakes harder. While some of this is true in all elos but to a lesser and lower quality of play, as its higher, and I hate to wear this word out, it's more complex and in depth. Simply put: there's no way a lower elo player could ever understand this. The only way they do is by ranking up and experiencing it.

I'll give you an example I like using to describe this. Imagine you're watching a front page game of ranked high elo. You see a Hecarim and Darius fighting it out. Darius is running flash/ignite, Hecarim is running ignite/TP. You watch as the Darius has Hecarim under tower and below half health but Darius is barely above half himself. Darius hits six with just a few of his minions left dying under tower. Many low elo players would probably wonder why Darius isn't walking up to the escapeless Hecarim and dropping a Q/AA/R/Ignite to secure what seems like an easy kill. Instead, the Darius backs. How many people will understand why he backed instead of securing what seems like a sure kill?

Because a few things: the minion wave is going to reset in the middle of the wave after those minions die, or damn close to Hecs tower. Darius has it warded but doesn't see the jungler, he can only assume he's nearby expecting the dive. Darius would most assuredly die as well as he would draw aggro and Hecarim would likely ult him under tower. Darius has flash/ignite, not TP. So if Darius secures the kill and you'd think "snowball champion so it's a win for him," it's not. Hecarim is just going to TP back in, freeze the wave as Darius is going to be denied minions since his minions will be right under Hecs tower. They still traded 1 for 1 so Hec got a good chunk of gold and because of the freeze, Hec is going to be last hitting more and will also gain an EXP advantage to boot. Not to mention, Darius typically doesn't want to blow flash unless it's for a kill that doesn't involve his own death because of how easy he is to gank, he basically wants to have flash for straight forward sure fired kills or an escape.

In this situation, I can promise you lower elos wouldn't consider half of this and go for the dive. This is an example of small details you must always pay attention to at all times of the game. And not only must you pay attention, you must understand what's going to happen next and predict it accurately. At lower levels, this in depth knowledge and thinking just doesn't happen. And that's why I say there's no way they have the same knowledge. They may be knowledgable of the game, but understanding so many small things that a high elo player does likely just doesn't happen because they've never had to think this way and very few players, if any at all, can put a lot of this shit into words.

What impact does this have on balance knowledge? A pretty big one. Because some champions, as a result of less knowledge and in depth thinking, can take complete advantage of this due to the natures of their kits. So as a result, from the above example, that Darius in silver would likely dive the Hecarim and die and lose ultimately in the end because that kill was actually a bad trade for him. The first thing he'd do is QQ "omg Hecarim so op I dove him killed him solo but he just farmed and outscaled me." Hecarim might actually be op, but because of his inability to rationalize this as a mistake and blaming the champions, he actually doesn't improve. And if he were to instead focus on what he did wrong, what caused the bad trade on something that seemingly seemed good, he just got better. And over the course of time, he's going to learn more and more about the game in small intricacies because of that. So eventually, he just won't be low elo anymore. Is that to say every low elo isn't in the process of that learning experience right now? Absolutely not, but a deep understanding is still rather lacking if they're still in low elo. That's just a matter of time for them, not a matter of if.

So when I think elo, I don't actually think rank as skill. I see it as a measurement of the players ability to approve, adapt, learn and climb. Though it is skill involved, I see that skill becomes a secondary byproduct of the climb and knowledge, experience is what's likely gained first and most probably noticed by the player right away, even if subconsciously. Combine this with the above written paragraphs, and sorry, there's just no way a low elo player has the same knowledge. Not because they're stupid, not because they're incapable but because its just a matter of not experiencing the same things that higher level of play demands.

Now, regarding mechanics. Mechanics are absolutely important. But I truly believe mechanics require a lower threshold of skill to raise in elo than knowledge does - that's not to say there's extremely gifted but less than average knowledgable mechanical Players in high el because there are. But it's a rarity. So much of this game is decide on the decisions you make from all points of the game, as long you have the bare minimum set of mechanics required to compete at your elo, you can win - it might take longer to grind up than others but you should win. As I stated, after a certain point, I don't think you can get away with poor game knowledge doing this. And as I said in my OP, I do believe there is a certain threshold in very high elo where you have to have some damn good mechanics if you want to continue to rise.

But all this said, I will absolutely never dismiss the statements of a lower elo player just because they're lower elo. The only time I would is if they compare their games to mine and assume we see the same things - I spent quite a bit of time explaining why they don't so I believe that's clear why id mention elo at that point. And there are times, probably more common than some low elo players would like to admit, where I can read their statements and just dismiss it as low elo ranting because that shit doesn't fly in high elo. An example would be the spammed usuage of "focusing the tank." Focusing the tank is bad when your entire team blows it's load on an ulted Alistar after his combo is down or a Leona with W active while her combo is down. Focusing a ghosted Nasus, while built tanky, isn't "focusing the tank." It's focusing the biggest fucking threat to your backline and likely the enemy teams tankiesst member and largest source of damage aside from the ADC. Yes he's tanky but he's immobile and can't just walk past front lines. Applying minimal CC on him and kiting him easily kills him, and kiting him as a team more importantly since the burden is on him as an immobile melee champion to get to your back line, is not focusing the tank. Anyone who says "yeah ok focus nasus, just focus the tank. Good job on losing the fight because you focused the tank." When I see that, I just dismiss it - any high elo player would know exactly what i just explained to be true because in high elo, Nasus isn't really a problem in teamfights - he's easily dealt with. And this is just one of many examples I can name as something I'd see from low elo ranting and banter that I'm simply going to ignore and dismiss.

But again, i will never dismiss a players statements just because of their elo alone. if it has sound reasoning, logic, respectable knowledge behind it then I have something worth discussing. When it's just angry downvote one line spammers mad because the truth hurts, there's not much I can do.

So if you get upset about this but you are trying to learn the game and improve your knowledge, know that the low elo banter and low elo mindset doesn't apply to you - because over a course of time you will just get better. And your knowledge will improve and expand as a result. Just know that it never ends, even at the highest of elos, knowledge and the expansion of it is ever growing. Even at the pro level this is true because the game is ever changing. So keep grinding and you'll get there.

As for your rank, frankly it's hard to say. Unranked players can be an enigma. In some cases, they can be pretty damn good but in reality, there's no credentials backing their statements if it comes down to anecdotal evidence. But that's about it. Again, if you have solid reasoning and a presentable argument, that's something that can be discussed and elo or lack thereof should only apply to a minimal level.

I hope this covers your questions. I haven't had to think like this or lay out my thoughts like this in a long time and it's really refreshing to do so, so thank you for that. Again, if I missed something or it's unclear, ask away and I'll address it or clarify.

Kouga2 votes

{quoted} I hope this covers your questions. I haven't had to think like this or lay out my thoughts like this in a long time and it's really refreshing to do so, so thank you for that. Again, if I missed something or it's unclear, ask away and I'll address it or clarify.

Nope, that pretty much covers it. As I said, I wasn't trying to prove either of us as objectively Right or Wrong - just expanding the conversation. And once you shed a little deeper light on your perspective I actually found myself agreeing more with you.

You were drawing broad arguments - I was applying it to more specific examples. So that is where the few discrepancies between them would lie, I think. I agree that any lower elo player who is actively trying to raise their rank, and failing to do so could be said, pretty confidently, to lack that high elo knowledge they need to succeed. I was simply pointing out the cases where the low elo player isn't doing that.

Because you're right; there are all kinds of things that go unpunished - or even unnoticed - in lower tiers of play, like orbwalking. And there are entire meta strategies like certain lane swaps that won't appear in silver/gold normal games. So I agree that those aspects that you haven't experienced, you won't understand. There is a ton in this game I still don't understand. I was watching SK/H2K games last night with a friend of mine and there were certain kinds of builds and lane tactics that I was watching and just thinking, "I don't even know what's happening here"

In the end I think we're totally on the same page on the most important part:

i will never dismiss a players statements just because of their elo alone

And that goes for high and low elos alike.

Overall this was a wonderful conversation, and I thank you for your time and consideration. Maybe, one day, I'll get back into Ranked play and I'll see how far my Game Knowledge can take me.

But considering I'm writing this during my 15 hour shift here on graveyard.. I don't see that happening anytime soon item 3070 item 3070

Apollocliptic2 votes

I have to say, I don't know what low and high elo is specifically. I was under the assumption Bronze - silver is low, plat and diamond are high, gold is mid. (correct me if I'm wrong) the reason I am not sure, is because most people are talking about a bronze and a diamond, and not the inbetween. but as a "low elo silver" I do think like your example. Getting the kill will often lead to a disadvantage (similar to some invade scenarios leading to a first blood, but 2 champs have a late start and struggle in lane over one who has edge), I understand the process and apply the deeper thought into my decisions exactly as you say, but it'll be a long time before I reach "high elo" so I can't agree with your point. Being low Elo doesn't mean you "CANT" understand, you are unlikely to, but it's not impossible, and many aspects cross over into other games or scenarios you might be better at, something else is keeping you low. One of my most frequent mistake (not only, just most frequent) is when I know an ally is making a bad call, and that moment when you have to decide whether you should help them or not. Sometimes helping them might save them (even if they don't get kill/objective) other times you both end up dead. On the reverse, not helping them they almost certainly die, which leads to rage and flame which further reduces chances of winning.

(I made a point earlier about play styles being different in elos not just cause of high skill, but low skill and mentality. A good call in Plat might not work in bronze because your allies don't capitalise on it, therefore you need to adapt regardless of elo)

So yeah, being low elo, I don't think your "reason" is accurate, I have flaws, but I think that they are elsewhere

Onegarion2 votes

To me high/low elo is all relative on the people in question. Obviously Diamond > Gold/Silver/Bronze. I don't think there is going to every be any argument here, but the higher you go the more defined each league and division is in terms of skill/knowledge. In lower elos I really don't see much of a difference between a Bronze 1 and Silver 4, but there is a pretty big difference between a Diamond 1 and a Diamond 5.

For the most part I say people within 3 divisions of each other are of equal knowledge/skill unless otherwise proven. So like before a B1 is just as good as a S4. A Gold 2 = Plat 5. After Plat 3 though it starts to get a bit more rocky because the higher you go the better you have to be than the average players, but it tends to come down to more of a techincal/mechanical standpoint and not so much knowledge. Its just what I've seen through my play since season 3, so its a bit anecdotal.

Angry Monster4 votes

I would argue that you are wrong due to generalization. I would say that a gold player could be roughly as good as a plat player. A lot of golds just stop caring after they know their season reward is locked. I am one of those people and play mostly group games with pre mades of 3 to 4. Ranked play has not allowed 3 mans since season 1, and i prefer playing with people i know overall.

Their may be high knowledge players in silver and bronze; but they are few and in between. Most people do not understand the game as much as they think they do. I think your msg is not false, but to board in application.

I disagree that game knowledge over all differs at certain elos. I would say understanding how players are going to behave differs at different elos. The reason i say this is cause when bronze to challenger was a thing streamers would quickly destroy the lower tiers. They were able to do this cause players were usually over aggressive and were punished for it. The streamer would still use game understanding to push advantages to quickly win.

ZeeDrakon2 votes

"People szop caring after they reach gold"... ive always felt this was some kind of lsme excuse if you couldnt get out of gold. I dont think anyone playing much ranked played it exclusively for the rewards

Angry Monster3 votes

I play ranked only for the free skin. I had to rush it season 2 cause i did know that gold plus was a thing. It happens and not an excuse. Sometimes after i get gold i will play cause its only me and a friend and then why not ranked at that time.

I am never going to be a "PRO" and i am better than most of my friends. Its sad when we play normal draft and i can match up with plats but they cant.

City of Toronto3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kaosu Desu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MVEFxfv2,comment-id=000500010000,timestamp=2015-04-21T04:53:22.572+0000)

I play ranked only for the free skin. I had to rush it season 2 cause i did know that gold plus was a thing. It happens and not an excuse. Sometimes after i get gold i will play cause its only me and a friend and then why not ranked at that time.

I am never going to be a "PRO" and i am better than most of my friends. Its sad when we play normal draft and i can match up with plats but they cant.

Sure, so you never progressed beyond a gold 5 skill level. It doesn't matter what your reasoning is, or what your potential is. All that matters is that by not trying, you have not realized your potential. I was the same way as you before, I only cared about gold rewards in S3. I kept playing at a bare minimum, only to maintain gold (I decayed 4 times for inactivity, I climb back, and decay again). In season 4, I finally decided to climb, and I crushed my way to diamond within a short amount of time and # of games played, at a 65% win rate which even includes my low win rate from when I was messing around in duo at the beginning of the season.

Even though I crushed my way to diamond and proved myself, I improved along the way. Sure, at gold 5 I had the potential to be diamond, but in no way was I the same skill level or at the same level of knowledge when I was in G5 and when I was in D5. Along the way, I refined my skills and knowledge, I understood the nuances of various concepts and situations that I've "heard of before" but have never actually been put in.

Angry Monster1 votes

last year got into plat promos, so you have no clue what you are talkign about.

City of Toronto5 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kaosu Desu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MVEFxfv2,comment-id=00050001000000000000,timestamp=2015-04-21T05:02:03.527+0000)

last year got into plat promos, so you have no clue what you are talkign about.

... congrats?

Angry Monster1 votes

you said i never got past g5. point is that you have no clue what you are talking about when you say something about me.

City of Toronto8 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kaosu Desu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MVEFxfv2,comment-id=0005000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-04-21T05:07:22.640+0000)

you said i never got past g5. point is that you have no clue what you are talking about when you say something about me.

Okay, then I redact my statement. You never progressed past Gold 1. You can try to argue the minute details all you want, but the overall point stays valid. You can't discredit my overall statement by nitpicking a small oversight.

Angry Monster3 votes

What ever kid. you know nothing about my goals or my life. You can think you know it all, which i have already shown you know nothing about me.

You seem to think I care beyond getting gold, i do not. I am not going to go pro, its not my dream to go pro. I never said i will be pro. All i have ever cared about was playing my best with my friends and getting the yearly skin.

I play to win, but i rather play with people i know. I know i can keep up with plat players and that i could grind my way to plat eventually. But why bother? It does not get me anything more special than what i get at gold. I play less than 100 solo q ranked games a year. I currently have less than 20.

To the idiots that down vote. Get a life, i have stated what i care about for my self. The fact you guys are down voting like mindless idiots cause i do not share your dream of being pro is sad.

City of Toronto7 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kaosu Desu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MVEFxfv2,comment-id=000500010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-04-21T08:01:07.141+0000)

What ever kid. you know nothing about my goals or my life. You can think you know it all, which i have already shown you know nothing about me.

You seem to think I care beyond getting gold, i do not. I am not going to go pro, its not my dream to go pro. I never said i will be pro. All i have ever cared about was playing my best with my friends and getting the yearly skin.

I play to win, but i rather play with people i know. I know i can keep up with plat players and that i could grind my way to plat eventually. But why bother? It does not get me anything more special than what i get at gold. I play less than 100 solo q ranked games a year. I currently have less than 20.

To the idiots that down vote. Get a life, i have stated what i care about for my self. The fact you guys are down voting like mindless idiots cause i do not share your dream of being pro is sad.

Except if you read what I wrote, that's not what I said at all. It's fine if you don't care about climbing higher, it's fine if you don't have any goals regarding this game. It's fine that you play with your friends.

But, if you don't plan on improving, grinding, and gaining the necessary experience, don't speak as if you do.

Don't put the effort? Don't talk as if you are qualified. Didn't put the effort to grind to plat? Don't talk as if you're a plat player. It's that simple. If you have the potential, but you don't work towards realizing that potential, don't talk as if you have. You're capable of shooting 8/10 from the free throw line if you practice and try, but you don't because you don't practice OR try? Don't talk as if you throw 8/10 from the free throw line then.

Lucky4 votes

tldr +1 high elo gives credibility

COWmanLord4 votes

I feel like many low elo players do have a certain degree of game knowledge , but the real issue is that they only have theoretical knowledge. They may have watched a bunch of streams and read a bunch of guides, but only know what to do I theory. They have an idea, but to really get actual,game knowledge you need to play and learn for yourself.

Another factor might simply be that low elo and high elo games are very different. From where I started (b1) and where I am now (G5) i have had to adjust my strategies even when dealing with the same situation. What might be the correct way to play at low elo may be completely different higher up.

Apollocliptic2 votes

What's funny is that can reverse, if you play a certain way in S/G it might backfire in B/S because your playstyle might be better, but you have to accommodate for your team too. I often build a less optimal champ (like pure tank galio) because it's what my team needs based on poor composition or another champion failing to fulfil a purpose. I can bring back or turn a game around because I use "less optimal" tactics that synergise better with the team I am working with.

More from Gameplay

More by HateDaddy