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@Riot Can we finally discuss ranked matchmaking ?

option paralysis··26 votes·1,525 views

I feel like matchmaking needs a more strict algorithm or something. Mixing a wide variety of mmr and calling that a fair and a balanced game isnt right. Once I had a d5 autofilled top vs. a d1 top main. Or when I went against challengers in d4 promos. Where's the logic in needing to defeat challengers to reach d4. Ofc the mmr balanced it so we had challengers too and d5's, meaning d5 players laned against challengers. Those kind of games are torture. It happens a lot and this literally makes league games a freaking coin toss. Makes me feel like I don't have any influence in games, just what the system gives me decides the outcome of games. Not to mention winning and losing streaks that always happen. Won 5 games, oh well, I guess I have to lose the next 5, not because I did bad, but because I got a 0/10 guy on my team this time. I would be really happy if you took an interest in this after years of the same system, and modified things for the better. I want to actually play ranked for the whole season, not stop midway through it every season, because matchmaking is so frustrating. Also, d5 elo is the worst thing in this game. I dont understand why is such a big company ignoring big problems in their game. Stop with the silence and make your game a better one.

37 Comments

Total Eclipse6 votes

Ahhh this post needs more upvotes. This shit is so real. My brother still doesnt believe in cursed promos OR win streaks/loss streaks. The shit is LITERALLY rigged. I used to feel a little crazy for beliveing it but I think 80% of the community is starting to realize THAT OUR GAMES. ARE. RIGGED. Win streaks. Loss streaks. And promos. And it all revolves around giving power over people live's to the fucking scum of the earth losers (the guys that enable streaks).

Here's a proposition. Let's make "NOT TRYING" a reportable offense. Sounds crazy right? But if you think about it,.... It's what we need.

KlydeFrog1 votes

lol because the people that are "not trying" probably got carried every game and the slightest bit that you actually have ot try and the game isnt over sort of thing makes people quit. ohh man gave up first blood gg noob jungle or something like that lol

Battalion4 votes

No. Now shutup you silly boy and buy the lootbox.

Eedat3 votes

I feel like the majority of the time when matchmaking is effed it's because of a duo or two. Talking about soloq. Flex is just completely fucked permanently

GeminiRune1 votes

Agreed. Flex according to one of my friends is like putting on a blindfold and 360 lobbing random stuff at a wall. And there's your match making process.

Weasel Kensei1 votes

{quoted}

Agreed. Flex according to one of my friends is like putting on a blindfold and 360 lobbing random stuff at a wall. And there's your match making process.

I made Gold this last season, and only Silver 3 in Flex... while passing some time in flex in the last few matches Iv had to support an unranked ADC, and a Bronze 4 ADC... with a 19% win rate.

Flex is a dumpster fire of a ranked queue. Its still slightly better than normals, but thats because only SOME of the people in it treat it like normals.

HalcyonDweller3 votes

I think a big part of the problem is that people have one rank to represent all of their skills. Some skills don't translate between roles, so players who branch out or get auto-filled wind up getting matched at a level on par with their skill in their main roles, but they are technically playing something that they are unable to do at that skill level.

Pls Rito, give us a separate rank for each role/position. Make matches more fair for when people aren't playing their most common role!

Azeranth1 votes

Eh, I can see this being used to abuse Promos. You tank a role (like top) then go into promos and play only top and mid. The result is easier games because you threw a few games and accepted the slower climb.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

The concept of promos would be separated out for each role as well. You couldn't go into promos as top / mid if you got to promos for a different role. If you played mid or top when your account is due for promos for jungle it will just postpone the promos game and allow you to work on your rank in the role you get.

Tzuyu Is My Bias1 votes

This shouldn't be a necessary change or an issue, but it is an issue as long as autofill exists. Half of ranked queues problems is autofill. the other half is the matchmaking.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

I believe that this would fix a large portion of both problems. If matchmaking can more accurately match players based on their skill at the role they will be playing that game, matches will be more even. On top of that, if it matches players who are autofilled into a role they don't normally play at a lower skill level, matches will be a lot more fair.

Tzuyu Is My Bias1 votes

Removing autofill fixes this problem. You will no longer be playing in a role you cannot play due to autofill, instead you will be playing in the role you know how to play no matter what.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

Removing autofill creates other problems though. My suggestion avoids all of them.

Tzuyu Is My Bias1 votes

I don't know what other problems it would create other than longer Queues. Your suggestion is almost the same thing as removing autofill.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

How would it be the same as removing it? My understanding of my idea is that if players get autofilled under my proposed system, they would actually be matched more fairly because they would get matched at a lower level of play than their main role, thus making it safer for them to play the off-role.

Tzuyu Is My Bias1 votes

But removing autofill does not ever force people to even play off-roles which is infinitely better than trying to balance matchmaking to suit off-roles.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

And we've come full circle again. That creates problems, like absurdly long queue times because less people are willing to play certain roles.

What I'm proposing solves the pain points of having auto-fill without removing it and bringing back all the problems that were solved by it's introduction.

Tzuyu Is My Bias1 votes

But the only problem is the longer queues and almost every comment you will see regarding this issue, is that people are more willing to have longer queues than autofilled teammates.

Also, it would be way harder to implement a system that matches players individually based on their role when there are 4 other people in the same team also getting this individual matchmaking. Creates rank disparities between the players when, an example, there is an autofilled support who then gets matched, by your system, with another less skilled support player, when the adc's both are playing their main role. what happens is that the supports are basically redundant and the adc's and other players will just most likely abuse the less skilled supports. It would have to be none autofilled, or everyone autofilled to have balanced matchups for everyone while not having skill differences between the other players in the same team.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

{quoted}

But the only problem is the longer queues and almost every comment you will see regarding this issue, is that people are more willing to have longer queues than autofilled teammates.

That may be true, but it may also be false. Whenever there is a detrimental effect of a system, people complain about it. People complained about the long queue times just as much in the past as others do now about auto-fill. In the end it is up to Riot - and not us - to determine the crowd's tune. I'm simply proposing something that would help mitigate some of the existing frustrations with the existing system.

Also, it would be way harder to implement a system that matches players individually based on their role when there are 4 other people in the same team also getting this individual matchmaking. Creates rank disparities between the players when, an example, there is an autofilled support who then gets matched, by your system, with another less skilled support player, when the adc's both are playing their main role. what happens is that the supports are basically redundant and the adc's and other players will just most likely abuse the less skilled supports. It would have to be none autofilled, or everyone autofilled to have balanced matchups for everyone while not having skill differences between the other players in the same team.

Maybe, and maybe not. It all depends on how the code is written, as well as how many steps a queue server will need to take for my method compared to the existing method.

I'm well aware of load increases of scaling a system to take more users or inputs. I've worked on data systems that worked great with their smaller data pools but when we attempted to scale them up the software's inefficiencies wreaked havoc on our systems.

If the data for the separate MMRs is stored flat rather than calculated each time, then the load on the server is significantly reduced.

Tzuyu Is My Bias1 votes

Well, let's just agree to disagree then. There is not much to add onto this conversation since it's purely up to Riot to to actually make changes. Your suggestion may or may not be better because, as you said, players will always complain about a detrimental effects different systems have. Your suggestion has it's downsides, as so does mine. Both may be good changes or neither may be better than the current system. We would only know after Riot actually makes changes.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

No. You argued as if my idea was to defend or keep auto-fill. My idea had nothing to do with keeping or removing auto-fill until you forced that agenda here. My suggestion is separate from keeping or removing auto-fill. Leave that out of it.

My idea helps reduce the frustrating parts about auto-fill. As such, it's a flat improvement from our current situation.

Whether removing auto-fill would do more or less than my idea to improve current things is irrelevant here, the contexts and problems resulting from that make it a different situation entirely.

Tzuyu Is My Bias1 votes

I don't really understand you. I only argued that removing auto-fill would just have same or better results. Your suggestion is not entirely separate from keeping or removing auto-fill since you directly want to make changes to how auto-fill works, surely making it better, but my suggestion of just removing it is still relevant to the discussion. The problems on both situations are more or less similiar.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

Edit: deleted, copied and moved. We are out of reply space.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

Moved because we are out of reply space:

{quoted}

I don't really understand you. I only argued that removing auto-fill would just have same or better results. Your suggestion is not entirely separate from keeping or removing auto-fill since you directly want to make changes to how auto-fill works, surely making it better, but my suggestion of just removing it is still relevant to the discussion. The problems on both situations are more or less similiar.

I don't really care whether auto-fill is removed or kept. I saw a potential problem with players in off-roles getting unbalanced matchups, I proposed a solution that I believe will mitigate or solve that.

I don't want to remove auto-fill. But that is for separate reasons, and I don't care to discuss them here.

I'm proposing a way to update how ranked matchmaking works that benefits players not just when dealing with auto-fill, but also just if they decide to branch out or if they want to achieve a high rank in one particular role. There are a bunch of other possible boons to using my idea, auto-fill isn't its sole focus. And auto-fill was not the sole focus of discussion until you came in and started arguing about it.

Tzuyu Is My Bias1 votes

If you did not care to discuss auto-fill, there was no point in you replying to me anyway. I replied to you how I did, because discussion of auto-fill was relevant and mine was a valid suggestion.

Personally I believe branching out should not be done in ranked to begin with. You can learn new roles in normal draft pick, then go for ranked when you can play them well enough.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

Indeed I should not have replied at first. Unfortunately I didn't recognize it then and you were quite insistent to argue with me over this topic.

Thanks for that, it's nice to know you would have pooh-poohed my idea anyway even if you had understood it the first time you read it. /s

ScaryWaffleMan2 votes

Once you get past gold the amount of people that play in your elo drops so even truly they will just start filling spots GL in your games m8

Cavesloth2 votes

{quoted}

Once you get past gold the amount of people that play in your elo drops so even truly they will just start filling spots GL in your games m8

Well while his is a bad example, I've seen people trying to get from B1 to S-V facing Gold 1s and PlatVs in their promos. Riot knows EXACTLY what they are doing, this isn't some oversight or sub-optimization. They have it this way on PURPOSE to keep you playing all damn season just to get to the rank you should be because they don't think people will keep playing long if they just play norms for some bizarre reason.

Disembark1 votes

Ok but can you actually LINK us to those games where D5s were placed with challengers (Where the Challengers aren’t smurfing?) .

I don’t know why people are so quick to believe these but I’ve yet to see ONE THREAD which actually had proof which wasn’t flex/normals.

I’m not trying to bash anyone, but it’s crazy that I see these threads every day but havent seen even ONE ranked solo match with proof.

NichtHurz1 votes

This video might be almost a year old, but it portrays the problem. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMfeewAQDfY Even if this G1 Tryn was challenger/master lvl, as long as he's 6 divisions away from even being D5, he just shouldn't be matched with anybody this high in rank. He should just skip divisions and be up there a few games later. Like really, at lower elo the difference is not gonna be tremendously big, even if you match a S5 with a S1 player. The difference between G5 and G1 already is a completely different thing. P5 to P1 can't even be compared and D5 to D1 is like the difference between a Bronze and a Plat player.

Disembark1 votes

Seriously? Your proof is from a video at the start of the season when matchmaking was actually fucked and Faker was being matched with gold players too?

I haven't seen any of the recent posts (in the past few months) be supported by any evidence of their own. If this is actually "so true" then why don't people actually link the matches in which this happens to them? I mean why do you have to go find a 1 year old video anyways? It happens "all the time" right? Just whip something out of your match history.

Anghellic11 votes

League has one of the worst matchmaking systems I've ever seen. It feels like most games are a blow out either way (winning or losing). Being one of the most popular PC games there should be minimal issue with lack of people to match with that are similarly skilled so I'm not sure if its Riot being lazy and not fixing the issue or if Riot doesn't understand how to make a matchmaking system thats fair.

Vad Nova1 votes

Ranked is a legitimate waste of time anyways. All it does is add stress and toxicity to the game. In a game where personal skill matters so little compared to a team effort as a whole, why play ranked? So you can get a shiny new icon that only you care about?

Lakega1 votes

Been saying shit like this since ever.. but since I've always been between bronze-Gold I always got the same reply "If you're not in the elo you deserve, you'll climb, GG, nuff said. End all be all response" so I'll do the same.

If you deserve the elo you'll climb right? doesn't' matter what logic you use to counter that. Remember league community mentality. If you can't carry yourself out of your elo against players in higher elo's, you don't deserve your elo..

Weasel Kensei1 votes

One thing I see happening a lot is the match making will pair up teams where one has 3 people with 51% and up win rates against 3 people with 48% win rates... Any match making system that does that is either picking winners and losers, or is just blindly looking at the MMR statistic in a vacuum. This is in Solo and Flex of course.

Whats so frustrating is you may deserve a higher division title, but to earn it you have to play against people of an even higher division than the one youre trying to get too.

Then dont forget boosters that come in late in the season, a problem mostly existing because of the freebies handed out for Gold or higher rank...

Lauchmelder1 votes

[{quoted}](name=useless nihilist,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MNysd3v2,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-12-22T16:00:05.329+0000)

Where's the logic in needing to defeat challengers to reach d4.

I feel you but I understand why that is. The top 1% of all players are such a limited bunch that matchmaking sometimes just can't find anything with a suitable rank in a decent amount of time.

Totally supporting this though, I had to win against Gold2 players to get to gold 5. I'm fine if that happens in a ranked game. I'm not fine with it if it's in a promo game. Promo-matchmaking needs an overhaul.

Droughtling1 votes

Well 7 months after this post and it's still going, matchmaking/autofill still making this game hell!

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