talon was nerfed because he had no counterplay

UdoIkOSc4u··3 votes·1,567 views

looking at vayne

14 Comments

JustMyBassCannon2 votes

Frozen Heart, Randuin's Omen, hard CC, Vi... Just to name four random Vayne counters.

Direwolfiez3 votes

Exhaust shits all over her too, like it does with most assassins and ADCs.

Narasimha2 votes

Talon wasn't 'no counterplay', it was the sheer binary playstyle he had. A battle with Talon basically went like this:

  1. You kill him before he can react OR
  2. He pulls off his full combo which cannot be stopped midway and 2a. He kills you OR 2b. He doesn't kill you and runs.

There was no room for 'plays' or anything fancy from either side.

Marthian1 votes

Vayne you just need to not be in a position a random condemn will wreck you.

Talon just lol E-Q/W-R's away and didn't get to do anything.

Constantine221 votes

well Riot made Talon needing a silence. think about it. what can a talon do if he E a vayne and vayne just push him away? Ult? she just pink wards or red trinket. but zed on the other hand has still his shadow. to go in again. you see talon has only ONE gap closer. so he needs to stick to his target. every other assassin has mobility . talon doesnt. without silence they need to make him have more chaseability like all the other assassins.

Marthian1 votes

Wait for Vayne to use condemn?

Constantine221 votes

vayne is not gonna condemn Talon if he isnt in melee range. we are talking about 1v1 right now. in teamfihts its a different thing. you have to keep in mind warwicks and tarics and all those cc champs. previously i whould E to silence the taric and W+R during the silence so that i whouldnt get stunned from him. but now that doesnt work. so Talon cant aoe right now. and aoe is supposed to be one of his advantages. the only advantage actually.

Pika3101 votes

Caitlyn Caitlyn or any strong laning champ, as well as anyone who can significantly out-range her.

Besides, it's not like Vayne has a 700-range single-target silence with no conditions or real drawback and even comes with a gap-closer. I can't fathom why any champion would be allowed something like that.

Constantine221 votes

Zed has a gap closer and if you flash it he still has W and if something goes wrong he ults back to safety. Talon has only ONE gap closer so it needs to be strong. thats why there was a silence. he is the only assassin with only one gap closer. and we all know assassins need to stick to their targets. if Talon E's an ezreal and ez just blinks away he then kites talon to death. if Talon ults ez uses pink ward. if they want to remove silence they need to add something else to stick to his target. its unfair that fizz akali kassadin leblanc and zed can stick to their target due to their mobility and Talon cant. his silence was Core to him. now why pick a talon over a zed for example?

RedtheCrimson1 votes

Honestly it was a good thing they removed Talon's silence. As a burst assassin, it just made things unfairly easy for you to just walk in and gimp somebody. If anything the movement debuff Cutthroat applies now is better, as it applies more damage with his passive (that and he still has the damage amplification bonus from his E, however "unsubstantial" you may think it is).

The changed Talon is still bursty, the enemy just has a fighting chance now of either fighting back or running the hell away lol.

Direwolfiez2 votes

To be fair, though, his teeny-tiny slow is a bad replacement for a silence. I couldn't even notice it when I got him in ARAM. I fully agree that the silence wasn't fair, but I think he needs some tweaking before he's in a good place again.

Constantine222 votes

first of all. Talon's silence was core on him because EVERY assassin needs to have a way to stick to their targets. Akali can ult 3 times. Zed can R and then W Leblanc can W and then R Kassadin is kassadin Fizz can Q and then E Talon had only one gap closer but had time to do damage with that one second of silence which you can cleanse or qss btw.

Second of all the slow he applies now is for 0.25 seconds. in that time frame you can only land a Q. which is less damage than when he had silence where he could do auto + q (cause q is an auto attack reset like nasus q). but if you try to auto+q now the enemy will blink dash away or stun you or burst you down with a targeted ulti that he had already clicked you with before you E on him. So overall they didnt buff his damage. they nerfed it since auto + Q does more damage that a Q with 10% damage amp from passive.

Now without the silence Talon cant fight most match ups an assassin is suppose to counter. just give me a name of a champion that an assassin could kill easy. lets compare that name you give me with Talon without his silence and after that with Zed . lets say lux? ok.

Talon vs lux: Lux has no targeted abilities so maybe Talon could do something right? Lux players in high divisions dont just try to snare you. they use their shield... now if i want to dodge something with Talon i E to the enemy the moment he casts it right? so lux players throw the shield to juke Talon. u see a light ball reaching for you and you think its the snare so you E on shielded lux. from that point on you HAVE to trade. you cant just walk away. the moment you land behind her she snares you and walks a bit far just so you cant auto + q her. and uses E to you and at that moment you have probably just used W to get her shield down. when the snare ends you R. she puts a pink ward and ults you. you are either dead or flashed away. she wins the trade.

Zed vs lux Lux uses her shield as before and jukes zed to use his ult on her. The moment zed lands behind he can R back to his shadow to avoid her snare but lets just say she manages to snare him. she uses all her skills but zed still has time to ult back whenever he wants to dodge her ult. also he still has W to go in again.

As you can see a decent Talon without the silence has no way to beat a decent Lux. the lux whould have been enough to auto+Q and W+R and with the speed buff from his ult he could dodge everything.

Now look. i agree that silence in general is too strong. BUT Talon needs it. if they dont want silence on talon they need to rework him so that he doesnt need it.

If you want to see another match up just tell me. i have tried lots of match ups with the new talon with me and my friend so thats why i know Talon needs to stick to his target. not Talon only. EVERY assassin needs to stick to their targets. Talon had the silence and thats gone. they should add something to make up for it and the 0.25 second slow isnt enough. I dont want a buff on his damage. it wont mean anything if the enemy is still gona blink away or push me away the moment i blink. Talon needs utility not damage.

ZeroAnarchy1 votes

item 3075

Blinded Melon1 votes

item 3035

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