His damage needs to be nerfed and most importantly, his body slam needs to have it's ability to stop dashes removed. It makes having any kind of meaningful interaction with gragas impossible unless you're ranged and simply outrange all of his spells.
Wet Dryman21 votesHis body slam needs counterplay in melee range because currently it has none or at least lower reward. Urgot treatment with short delay would do the trick or maybe Vi treatment: the longer he channels the more damage, CC and range he has or if they want to make his dash unique as the one of the few insta ones just make it apply reduced CC and/or reduced duration of it when hit in low range.
As for ability to stop dashes: it would most likely require for him to lose his hard CC on E, displacements stop dashes (Quinn E, Yasuo Tornado, Thresh Q and E, Blitzcrank Q, Janna R etc.). Getting rid of displacement from Grag's E lowers his skill ceiling as it needs to be taken into account in order to do geometry combo so I'm not really a fan of this.
As for damage they need to put more emphasis on making use of his charged Q: reduce damage of noncharged Q and increase it on the charged one. They could also remove or reduce slow on basic Q and make it apply on the charged one, it would reduce his already good sticking power and his safety quite a bit. Rest is quite needed in order to clear jungle at reasonable speed.
HateDaddy1 votes[{quoted}](name=The Deafsinger,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MGhb7giU,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-07-19T10:08:19.819+0000)
His body slam needs counterplay in melee range because currently it has none or at least lower reward. Urgot treatment with short delay would do the trick or maybe Vi treatment: the longer he channels the more damage, CC and range he has or if they want to make his dash unique as the one of the few insta ones just make it apply reduced CC and/or reduced duration of it when hit in low range.
As for ability to stop dashes: it would most likely require for him to lose his hard CC on E, displacements stop dashes (Quinn E, Yasuo Tornado, Thresh Q and E, Blitzcrank Q, Janna R etc.). Getting rid of displacement from Grag's E lowers his skill ceiling as it needs to be taken into account in order to do geometry combo so I'm not really a fan of this.
As for damage they need to put more emphasis on making use of his charged Q: reduce damage of noncharged Q and increase it on the charged one. They could also remove or reduce slow on basic Q and make it apply on the charged one, it would reduce his already good sticking power and his safety quite a bit. Rest is quite needed in order to clear jungle at reasonable speed.
I believe the idea here is that his knockup shouldn't work mid dash. I don't know if such a change is actually possible but something needs to change. You literally can't engage on Gragas and his ability to poke/all-in on his choosing make that unfair.
Wet Dryman1 votesIt is actually a good idea but Riot needs to look at it and tell us if it's possible. Besides that I would take away stun (to be less punishing for melees) and cd reduction from it (to add bigger window to retaliate). He doesn't need these things, it got ridiculous to a point where you max E while going full tank 45% cdr build to not give your melee rival any chance to retaliate.
WoonStruck1 votesMake his E stun instead of knock-up/displace.
Boom, doesn't stop dashes.
Asayake 5150glow2 votes[{quoted}](name=The Deafsinger,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MGhb7giU,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-07-19T10:08:19.819+0000)
His body slam needs counterplay in melee range because currently it has none or at least lower reward. Urgot treatment with short delay would do the trick or maybe Vi treatment: the longer he channels the more damage, CC and range he has or if they want to make his dash unique as the one of the few insta ones just make it apply reduced CC and/or reduced duration of it when hit in low range.
As for ability to stop dashes: it would most likely require for him to lose his hard CC on E, displacements stop dashes (Quinn E, Yasuo Tornado, Thresh Q and E, Blitzcrank Q, Janna R etc.). Getting rid of displacement from Grag's E lowers his skill ceiling as it needs to be taken into account in order to do geometry combo so I'm not really a fan of this.
As for damage they need to put more emphasis on making use of his charged Q: reduce damage of noncharged Q and increase it on the charged one. They could also remove or reduce slow on basic Q and make it apply on the charged one, it would reduce his already good sticking power and his safety quite a bit. Rest is quite needed in order to clear jungle at reasonable speed.
No need to increase damage on charged, it's already fucking insane. Just nerf the uncharged.
Wet Dryman1 votesWell that would gut AP and Fighter Gragas, they don't need actually to increase base damage, just scalling as Tank Grag makes little to no use of that anyway.
Asayake 5150glow1 votes[{quoted}](name=The Deafsinger,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MGhb7giU,comment-id=000200010000,timestamp=2017-07-20T09:44:20.341+0000)
Well that would gut AP and Fighter Gragas, they don't need actually to increase base damage, just scalling as Tank Grag makes little to no use of that anyway.
The base damage is FUCKING INSANE
It outclasses all the other tanks as well. It's not like it's normal.
Buffing scaling is not a way to nerf tank Gragas. It won't fucking touch tank Gragas.
Wet Dryman1 votesThe idea is that lowering base damage of basic Q nerfs Tank Gragas and it does BUT it also removes lane Gragas and his other playstyles from the game so I proposed buffing it's scalling so Tank Gragas won't make use of that but it will compensate his other playstyles for that nerf.
Asayake 5150glow1 votes[{quoted}](name=The Deafsinger,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MGhb7giU,comment-id=00020001000000000000,timestamp=2017-07-20T14:28:38.983+0000)
The idea is that lowering base damage of basic Q nerfs Tank Gragas and it does BUT it also removes lane Gragas and his other playstyles from the game so I proposed buffing it's scalling so Tank Gragas won't make use of that but it will compensate his other playstyles for that nerf.
I see. That should be fine.
An Enemy Sutando17 votesOr or or
How about we fix his E hitbox so it's not literally impossible to miss if you have the single brain cell required to land it.
mosaickle1 votesDoesn't his t h i c c hitbox come from his t h i c c body?
Glory to God2 votesHonestly this. Like holy dont make him fatter than he actually is
Jiggypuff11 votesI just wish they would change that dash hitbox. That shit is so disproportionate its stupid.
Brain Errör 4047 votesNo clue why people keep complaining about Gragas' hitbox. Its the most balanced, fair and noticeably easy mechanic to dodge ever.
I mean, just look at the frame perfectness of his hitbox:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZinm7ZvO5I&feature=youtu.be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzLCTJZM0Lg&feature=youtu.be
(warning, mute sound)
See, nothing wrong at all.
Big Black Croc1 votesWhy would u put the warning after u put the video. I got ear raped
Brain Errör 4041 votesI figured your eyes would glance at the brackets before clicking the vids first. I forgot about tunnel vision. League is too strunk
neeko is not gay9 votesSo what does he just dash and no displace you? Human skill shot in confused on what u want
Ahristocats7 voteshis body slam needs to have it's ability to stop dashes removed.
this is not possible unless you remove the knockback
Succubús GF8 votesOr at least fix the hit box. Rito pls its been years
Arakadia1 votesCouldn't you code it to not stop dashes?
I believe they did this to Ahri's charm, but that is a charm so maybe it is different.
Ahristocats1 votescharm also stops dashes, just not the unstoppable one like malp ult
Glory ln Death9 votesNot anymore. They removed that about a year ago. The dash completes, now, and then they start walking to you.
HateDaddy2 votes[{quoted}](name=i am Rubick Sama,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MGhb7giU,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2017-07-19T13:16:31.589+0000)
this is not possible unless you remove the knockback
Are you sure? They managed to change Ahris charm to stop canceling dashes and it still kept its taunt effect.
Rexxiee1 votes[{quoted}](name=i am Rubick Sama,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MGhb7giU,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2017-07-19T13:16:31.589+0000)
this is not possible unless you remove the knockback
They can make it a stun and make it so the stun only applies after a dash is completed (if used on someone dashing for example).
Yordle Xayah5 votesBut if you nerf his damage people are all gonna be mad that their tank isn't dealing damage anymore.
Sinlaire4 votes
?
Devilreaper XIII4 votesgragas is op and needs to be nerfed nough said.
IcyPepper4 votesBut how?
Clarification: (I am referring to how to nerf him)
Succubús GF4 votesFor one, I cant recall a year where gragas wasn't overwhelmingly good in pro play. His hitboxes are horrid. His damage is so stupid. Have you ever gotten all in'd by him with him having just a revolver? So dumb that he can pretty much one shot so early
AwesomeGuyDj3 votesDamage? Check. Tanky? check Arguably THE MOST RELIABLE ENGAGE AND DISENGAGE IN THE GAME? Check. Healthy jungle clears? check Healthy laning? check. Decent ganks? check. Good pick potential (ult is big playmaker) check.
IcyPepper1 votesI asked how to nerf him, not just what tools he has...
Problem is that people are oftentimes more willing to complain than suggest a solution, and are fine with blanket nerfs that don't really fix anything besides making the champion weaker. Sure, that helps with simple number problems, but doesn't fix what's broken (for example, Kalista).
AwesomeGuyDj1 votesMisinterpreted. Thought you meant how was he op.
Blåbæret1 votes[{quoted}](name=Devilreaper XIII,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MGhb7giU,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-07-19T08:59:20.784+0000)
gragas is op and needs to be nerfed nough said.
This.
KitSun92 votesI personally am extremely biased against Gragas so... I wouldn't mind if he was Azir'd for several patches....
HateDaddy1 votesI personally am extremely biased against Gragas so... I wouldn't mind if he was Azir'd for several patches....
He's not a bad design, he just needs real windows of weakness to exploit him. Currently, Grag pokes with Q in more difficult lanes and saves W for when he gets engaged upon then Es the target as soon as they go on him and pops them with his empowered auto and retreats without much you can do. In this time, he's also sustaining. In matches he can bully, he straight up just maxes W and sits on top of you. All that is fine, he has versatility, meaningful choices in which spells to max and when but his E denies his opponent interaction so it makes him safe, oppressive and frustrating all in one. Remove its ability to stop dashes, it makes interaction possible and it means he has to time it correctly rather than just holding onto it when you're mid dash.
Meep Man2 votesI just wish the cool down reduction on for his E on-hit would be affected by CDR. It's not fun to be stunned for 1~ second every 4.2 seconds when he has 40% CDR.
FantasySniper2 votesHow about fixing that diddly-darn hitbox?
TwitchInMyPants1 votesHis R is a fast acting burst tool with a below average CD. Many ults in the game are around 120s, his ult cd is 100/90/80s. If they wanted to keep his current burst level while bumping his power down ult CD makes sense to do it. That said, I think putting some more risk in his E by making his hitbox 180 degrees instead of a full circle would bump him down too and put some more skill in the champion. The thing is so huge you can just flash into a group of enemies and it pops up all kinds of people. I'm ok with it having some extended AoE but there needs to be a zone you can move to so you can avoid it, if someone dashes past him I consider that an outplay and they should have some priority.
HateDaddy2 votesHis R is a fast acting burst tool with a below average CD. Many ults in the game are around 120s, his ult cd is 100/90/80s. If they wanted to keep his current burst level while bumping his power down ult CD makes sense to do it. That said, I think putting some more risk in his E by making his hitbox 180 degrees instead of a full circle would bump him down too and put some more skill in the champion. The thing is so huge you can just flash into a group of enemies and it pops up all kinds of people. I'm ok with it having some extended AoE but there needs to be a zone you can move to so you can avoid it, if someone dashes past him I consider that an outplay and they should have some priority.
His ult loses games as quickly as it wins them. I like that about it and that's why they should preserve its power since it's potential works both ways. Not to mention, there's several ways to outplay his ult. It's not nearly as reliable as other initiation tools, so I have no interest in seeing his ult CD increased.
Akali is SO HOT1 votesHis problems are his damage and basically everything about his e imo
HateDaddy1 votes[{quoted}](name=Akali is SO HOT,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MGhb7giU,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2017-07-19T17:07:24.693+0000)
His problems are his damage and basically everything about his e imo
I wouldn't mind his damage so much if he didn't E onto me to stun/knockback and prevent any sort of retaliation whatsoever. That's my point, Gragas can make it legitimately impossible to interact with him.
CasterGilgamesh1 votesalso even though he goes damage its still kinda hard to kill him one v one since hes kinda tanky
Steel Blossom1 votesThe funny thing is, I used to be able to dodge Gragas E with Talon's E. Of course, then Riot decided that Talon shouldn't have the ability to outplay skillshots and reworked him.
Asayake 5150glow2 votes[{quoted}](name=Steel Blossom,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MGhb7giU,comment-id=0010,timestamp=2017-07-19T20:26:01.723+0000)
The funny thing is, I used to be able to dodge Gragas E with Talon's E. Of course, then Riot decided that Talon shouldn't have the ability to outplay skillshots and reworked him.
You might still be able to do it with Kata (haven't tried, possible he'll just hit you anyway from behind, due to his E hitbox being bigger than his actual hitbox, and you teleport to his actual hitbox)
CasterGilgamesh1 votesits not that they didnt want talon to out play skill shots from what they said they just didnt like that he could just on people before they could react also why they nerf the range on kass ult and why they make kats dash work better on her daggers so people can predtice her movement
xxThatGuyxxx1 votesim faker give me some money ill teach u play mid
