I also don't think people realize how overpowered it is to negate normal wards in solo Q.
in competitive you have 4 other pro players helping you pink ward and probably spamming in voice chat "EVE MIA MIA MIA MIA" but it's not the same in solo Q.
Hayaishi29 votesExactly, yet every Eve main swears Eve isn't toxic and that Riot has a personal vendetta against her.
SwapShadows7 votesExactly, yet every Eve main swears Eve isn't toxic and that Riot has a personal vendetta against her.
It's just the simple fact that she suffers what WW,Kass, shen, poppy etc suffer and it's due to having cancerous identities that keep them from being meta without being nerfed constantly.
and yes guys shen is included, his ultimate is the reason why he is kept in check whenever he gets popular.
Chaotic Reks1 votesA demonstration of superior judgement
Abyssphere2 votesExactly, yet every Eve main swears Eve isn't toxic and that Riot has a personal vendetta against her.
Riot haven't really seemed to be of the opinion that her kit is toxic recently, though. They've called her too good, sure, but regarding being healthy, she seems to have been given the thumbs up. I mean they even buffed her stealth significantly a few months back, so they seem to think Shadow Walk is alright.
Big Lincoln5 votesall stealth champs are really poorly designed
there's no margin of error for any of them, no important skillshots to miss (barring bola) with all their major damage being point and click or auto-targeted
if they could actually fuck up beyond "i do not have the stats to win this fight" then they'd be much more acceptable
Stonington4 votesThe funniest part about Eve is throughout all her changed since preseason 4, she's never gone significantly above a 50% winrate. Because Eve exists, every lane on the map has to play passive until they outscale her and are able to group up, but that just won't always happen.
Saianna2 votesThis will be downvote material but...
I haven't seen Evelynn capable of killing (not feed) ADC in 1v1 situation.
When she comes ADC creates distance by their jumps/blinks & kite Evelynn. Before she gets to ADC she's half HP down. I know that Eve has slow-cleanse, but most of them use it to shorten distance asap.
And then Eve relies on ally CC. She alone can't do much because of little burst and tank'ness along with ADCs way of dealing with her.
I promote HOTS-like solution for stealth. It's healthier and allows Eve & other stealth champions for some buffs.
Jefftiffy1 votesThis will be downvote material but...
I haven't seen Evelynn capable of killing (not feed) ADC in 1v1 situation.
When she comes ADC creates distance by their jumps/blinks & kite Evelynn. Before she gets to ADC she's half HP down. I know that Eve has slow-cleanse, but most of them use it to shorten distance asap.
And then Eve relies on ally CC. She alone can't do much because of little burst and tank'ness along with ADCs way of dealing with her.
I promote HOTS-like solution for stealth. It's healthier and allows Eve & other stealth champions for some buffs.
I wouldn't mind seeing stealth (or at least permanent stealth) being somewhat similar to HOTS because in HOTS its literally there to give the person with stealth an advantage by being harder to see not impossible to see without specific things. Sure they still don't appear on the map, but the blur is often enough to give away a stealthed hero in higher skilled games (I made it up to rank 10 in HOTS which is about equal to platinum in League) and it isn't that bad. In HoTS it stomps noobs and people who are too focused on their own lane.
I also want to mention that HOTS has both stealths on Assassins which are basically the HOTS version of high damage and squishy people (because there are both melee and ranged carries in this game, and their meta is closer to caster carries). Evelyn on the other hand is basically a bruiser or AP Assassin with stealth. One way she basically runs at someone from anywhere she pleases and slowly kills them and can survive quite awhile. The other way she just goes in and nukes everyone in her path because her abilities do scale pretty well with AP and it's itemization but she will die instantly to any kind of hard CC. The problem with both is that its a high damage nuker with low CDs that can just sit in plain sight and you know she is probably there but she can run around in your vision range without consequence.
Saianna1 votesI'd argue with Evelynn having a nuke.
True her E does have 1.0 AP ratio with decent base damage, but it still deals AD damage. It still can deal decent amount of damage, but nowhere near what I'd call a "nuke".
While her Q deals magic damage. So building just for damage often ends with sour taste in your mouth.
Second thing is, because she (imo) lacks a nuke, her damage comes from burst, which is combination of E, AA, Q. Thet's often enough to deal good amount of damage, but what comes afterwards makes me sad. Which is.. Q-chasing.
All other assassins have high bursts which often kill their target. While Evelynn has to chase for half of maps lenght to finally get her kill.
And last one: Noone can argue with that, but Riot doesn't want Evelynn to deal better than decent amount of damage (where assassins should exceel at). First thing is her tank ability. It's low-to-no damage, CC that gives her a shield. And worse thing: she needs it. Her high base damage abilities also inform us, that Riot doesn't want her built as serious damage-dealer (cause why would we want to build damage which mostly comes from our base stat, instead building 4th randuin.. Yes i know i'm exaggerating)
:)
Br4ndon1 votesI'd argue with Evelynn having a nuke.
True her E does have 1.0 AP ratio with decent base damage, but it still deals AD damage. It still can deal decent amount of damage, but nowhere near what I'd call a "nuke".
While her Q deals magic damage. So building just for damage often ends with sour taste in your mouth.
Second thing is, because she (imo) lacks a nuke, her damage comes from burst, which is combination of E, AA, Q. Thet's often enough to deal good amount of damage, but what comes afterwards makes me sad. Which is.. Q-chasing.
All other assassins have high bursts which often kill their target. While Evelynn has to chase for half of maps lenght to finally get her kill.
And last one: Noone can argue with that, but Riot doesn't want Evelynn to deal better than decent amount of damage (where assassins should exceel at). First thing is her tank ability. It's low-to-no damage, CC that gives her a shield. And worse thing: she needs it. Her high base damage abilities also inform us, that Riot doesn't want her built as serious damage-dealer (cause why would we want to build damage which mostly comes from our base stat, instead building 4th randuin.. Yes i know i'm exaggerating)
:)
Her E is very much a nuke. Its not majority of her damage but its a decent chunk of health she point and clicks away from you. It being physical damage just means that early game you have to choose do you wanna be sustain magic damage to death or nuked with physical damage.
I agree with OP. As it stands eve will be near impossible to balance because her stealth. The same goes for Shaco. I don't think adding another type of ward as suggested before is the answer. If adding an item to the game is how you balance a champion then that means the champion is simply too broken to fix with conventional means.
Maybe altering how her passive works with greens wards? She can be revealed with green wards but does not show on map. I'm not sure how she can be balanced so long as she can permanently stealth.
Vekkna1 votesOr just add the Mandrake functionality to green wards and sightstone but not trinket wards until upgraded.
Br4ndon1 votesOr just add the Mandrake functionality to green wards and sightstone but not trinket wards until upgraded.
That could work but i still feel like altering how wards work for a single champion sucks. It hurts other champions that use more balanced forms of stealth.
It's like making BORK not work with ranged champions because Vayne synergies well with it. It might patch one problem but ends up doing more damage than it fixed.
Stonington1 votesThis will be downvote material but...
I haven't seen Evelynn capable of killing (not feed) ADC in 1v1 situation.
When she comes ADC creates distance by their jumps/blinks & kite Evelynn. Before she gets to ADC she's half HP down. I know that Eve has slow-cleanse, but most of them use it to shorten distance asap.
And then Eve relies on ally CC. She alone can't do much because of little burst and tank'ness along with ADCs way of dealing with her.
I promote HOTS-like solution for stealth. It's healthier and allows Eve & other stealth champions for some buffs.
Those are bad Evelynns. She should be able to get on the ADC by using the terrain or just flanking from a direction the adc isn't expecting. Then once she's close she should use her ult for the slow, then finally use her speed up to either finish of the ADC if she has enough damage or escape with it if she doesn't.
howstheweather131 votesThis will be downvote material but...
I haven't seen Evelynn capable of killing (not feed) ADC in 1v1 situation.
When she comes ADC creates distance by their jumps/blinks & kite Evelynn. Before she gets to ADC she's half HP down. I know that Eve has slow-cleanse, but most of them use it to shorten distance asap.
And then Eve relies on ally CC. She alone can't do much because of little burst and tank'ness along with ADCs way of dealing with her.
I promote HOTS-like solution for stealth. It's healthier and allows Eve & other stealth champions for some buffs.
My friend Trinity Force ad off-tank Eve melts ad carries, ap Eve lol nukes them. Sure she does rely on getting successful ganks early but once she gets rolling and flanks well GG QQ.
Edit. Omg are you denying the OPness that is Evelyn, are you saying the ability to completely ignore wards(except for pinks of course), and to top it all of having the versatility to be built ad/ap(ad triforce tank is my favorite a malmortius should be in here somewhere) isn't something to be kept in check.
My friend Eve has heavy cc once she hits 6 plus her ult grants a shield for EACH CHAMPION HIT and does % HP damage. With a mere warrior upgrade I dive your adc and support ignite the lowest then proceed to spam my q then laugh at my easy double kill and easy escape after my W resets.
High51 votesI don't care either way. With s5 trinkets, Eve ia incredibly easy to counter. Weak players don't make a strong champion. I'm not sure why she needed a nerf.
Jefftiffy1 votesI don't care either way. With s5 trinkets, Eve ia incredibly easy to counter. Weak players don't make a strong champion. I'm not sure why she needed a nerf.
There is no way to counter her with trinkets until level 9 and even then that would require your team to have 5 pink trinkets as sweeper doesn't help against her at all. And this would also require your team to protect the pinks which is never going to happen in solo queue as they are contempt letting the jungler get killed by their lane while they sit there and farm.
A Miss Fortune1 votesI think people forget that even though Evelynn can bypass wards, she has absolutely no CC and she is very short ranged/melee. Aside from her ultimate (Which has a fairly high cooldown) she can't really do much besides beat you up. Sure Evelynn is REALLY good at bypassing any form of vision but if your laners have no hard CC then her ganks aren't going to be that effective aside from drive by poke with her Hate Spike.
JRobin311 votesI don't know about her balance, but I think she is a high skill cap squishy. In the few games I've seen Eve, if she doesn't get about 3 or 4 kills before 6 minutes, she is useless.
Starcall1 votesLOL WHAT
Kingopants1 votesHonestly Eve mains always come out en masse whenever eve gets any nerf. Obviously to them eve is perfectly fine and the idea for balance it to make eve as fun as possible to play right?
3TWarrior1 votesvayne, rengar, fizz, any champ with sated devourer, blitzcrank and thresh
all of these champions make a bigger impact in solo Q than Eve does and once late game comes around, if Evelynn is fed, she still dies instantly and deals little damage
PiVoRx1 votesLoL lacks of options to counter invisibility and pink ward big investment early game that can be just destroyed by eve, and later you just dont have room to buy them.
Starcall1 votesEve really doesn't need a nerf people need to learn how to play against her. And also I think Eve is being played now because a lot of the other junglers got tones down. So if you see champs like Wukong, Pantheon, Rammus, Warwick, Amumu, And maybe another j4 buff. You wont see as many Eve players at all.
3TWarrior1 votesthe fact that pro players even get to communicate with headsets and/or just talking cuz they're right next to each other...(but the screaming crowd drowns that), places their gaming into a completely different category
if riot implemented voice chat, there would be even more lag than there currently is and all players would be reported for "refusing to communicate" because they had to mute the voice chat function...
Eve very rarely makes an impact with her damage so low and by late game, it's a 4 v 5, even with a 1000 gold advantage, that's still not something to be overcome....and to feed the bottom lane, eve has to overcome 2 champions while not getting outplayed by the other team's jungler
probably the only reason why riot is looking at Eve is because she can counter devourer spammers...at which point, the game is already over in solo Q because of devourer
Droogzy1 votesEve doesn't really need nerfs though. I rarely play her in the jungle but when I play against her and I see her taking all the kills in the early game, I just laugh because I literally have nothing to worry about from a late game eve taking all the early kills. She does very little late game.
SwapShadows1 votesbump because delusional evelyn mains trying to fool players into believing that eve is in need of buffs and that she's completely healthy.