These Soraka changes though...

Remlap1223·Jan 29, 2016·16 votes·1,884 views

Like seriously Riot, who was the genius who came up with this? [slayer-pantheon-thumbs] Because I want to give them a fishie stick!

Not only do these changes get rid of the ridiculous "my carry is never going to die as long as I don't play like I rightfully gotten placed in Steel VI", but it also gives back Soraka a gripe that old mains of her had when she got reworked, that being the mana transfer. Now THIS, is counterplay.

I still don't think it's enough, but hey, this is some serious progress. You're solidifying her old identity in a very healthy way.

37 Comments

Sightless66Jan 29, 201613 votes

I'm seeing some pretty big problems with this. It doesn't look like there's any reward for hitting multiple champions with the Q, the heal amount is significantly lower at most points even though it's a heal over time, and late game her Q cooldown with CDR is about half the buff duration, and the W cooldown is much lower than that. That doesn't really leave any room for her to make gameplay decisions about how to use the buff lategame. There's pretty much 0 thought that goes into it because there's a such a clear best decision, which is a bit of a pity given that there also isn't any thought about hitting multiple champions with the Q because there's very little reward for doing so. On top of that, it's going to take a massive bit out of her sustain in teamfights, which I don't think is really her problem. Meanwhile, her lane will be as good as ever because hitting a Q gives you everything you need to keep spamming Q and healing your ally (along with mana sustain) infinitely, but it won't let her actually do the burst heals that make her unique.

So, annoying high sustain in lane still present, teamfight presence majorly decreased, the only skillful bit of her kit is deemphasized and is much less rewarding, the thing that gets majorly nerfed is the least annoying thing about her... this is starting to look like one of those changes that they need to spend 4 more patches cleaning up after. I really think Riot should be very careful with this change. There is a lot of potential to hit all the wrong things with this.

Remlap1223Jan 29, 20163 votes

To be noted, this is so early on the PBE it hasn't been implemented yet. And trust me, sweeping changes like this are going to be HEAVILY tested. But I think with enough cleanup this could end up going very well. I think the only thing I would change besides the numbers is allow alignment to stack (duration, not all at once) and allow alignment to proc on wish.

Krys StarJan 29, 20162 votes

Soraka Starcall [Q] - Now with Alignment ratios Missile Speed increased to 1300 (up from 1100) Area radius lowered to 195 (down from 260) Alignment Health restore AP ratio is 0.1AP Alignment Mana restore AP ratio is 0.1AP

She just received even more nerfs to go with her new weak self-sustainability. 5 years of maining Soraka, and for once in my League life, I might have to reconsider playing her again. :\

Ulquiorra995Jan 29, 20161 votes

So the difference between old and new maximum values in terms of scaling is 50% - not even counting situations where old Q hits more than one champion.

50% AP scaling nerf? Seriously? They really don't want Soraka seeing play anymore I guess since her self-sustain (which she needs because she kills herself even harder by healing allies now) is absolutely worthless now.

Hell, current self heal at W level one is way better than new self heal at Q level 5. I guess once Riot deems you "toxic" there's no hope for you in this game - and to add insult to injury it is in a patch cycle after Nunu of all people got buffed.

Kr1sysJan 29, 20163 votes

{quoted}

To be noted, this is so early on the PBE it hasn't been implemented yet. And trust me, sweeping changes like this are going to be HEAVILY tested. But I think with enough cleanup this could end up going very well. I think the only thing I would change besides the numbers is allow alignment to stack (duration, not all at once) and allow alignment to proc on wish.

There's way too many people that think 2 games on PBE and they know that its going to be released exactly how it's put on here. And those people are either in the camp of W being super weak, and W being as strong as ever.

Sightless66Jan 30, 20161 votes

Well, they're testing it alongside even more nerfs. Here's hoping they don't do a classic old-school season 2 gutting, because that's what we've got lined up right now.

Also, GODDAMN ALIGNMENT SUCKS! That's got to be the most pathetic buff I've ever played with. It almost made me ok with having to give it up almost instantly in any teamfight. I mean, I'm not ok with it because having not even 20% of the self-heal I would have had on live completely screwed me, but at least the fact that it wouldn't have helped me much anyway takes out some of the sting.

Well, at least I can restore barely half the mana that old Soraka could. That's kind of nice, in a stupid sort of way.

In all seriousness though, my time on the PBE has really made me hate alignment. How am I supposed to get any self-healing out of a 5 second duration buff when the skill that transfers it has a 2.0 - 1.1 second cooldown with CDR? In any situation where I have to spam W (see any teamfight ever for examples), I can't self-heal. It's seriously barely 10-20% of the live value that Soraka actually heals.

If this rework wants any chance of working, alignment needs to heal me for MORE than the Q heals for on live if it gets the full duration off. It heals less though, because a 0.1 AP ratio can't compete with a 0.4 - 0.8 that can proc multiple times on a single Q. That's absolutely worthless. Even in the ideal situation, it's worse, and you barely even get a fourth of the ideal situation once you hit the teamfights.

And it's not even that good for her allies, because she loses 50 points of healing on the W at all levels. If I cast W twice and get one with alignment, then I've lost 100 healing upfront and gained 90(+0.1) over the next 5 seconds. That's terrible.

I'm sticking to my guns. This not only severely overnerfs her, but it doesn't fix her most annoying problems. The biggest nerfs came to the more aggressive playstyle because alignment is so weak that hitting Q isn't as important as it used to be, and the smaller hitbox makes it riskier. Passivity got hit too, but not as much. Every single number is wrong, and the core concept doesn't look sturdy either.

CrazedPorcupineJan 29, 20166 votes

This completely ruins raka though. Her W is now so weak that maxing Q is actually preferable over her W.

Lady HammerlockJan 29, 20161 votes

{quoted}

This completely ruins raka though. Her W is now so weak that maxing Q is actually preferable over her W.

you do realise the Q buff transfers to an ally via W

Duke AnaxJan 29, 20162 votes

that only requires one level in W though, the other four won't change anything anymore, except W cooldown. and that wasn't that important before this rework anyway.

Kr1sysJan 29, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Duke Anax,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=M9ZMLWEY,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2016-01-29T12:16:19.233+0000)

that only requires one level in W though, the other four won't change anything anymore, except W cooldown. and that wasn't that important before this rework anyway.

It changes the base heal from W:

NEW TOOLTIP:

"Restores 70/100/130/160/190 (+0.6 AP) health to another champion ally.

If cast while affected by Alignment Soraka will transfer the effect to her target with a refreshed duration.

Cannot be cast if Soraka is below 5% Health."

So they get the insta heal + HoT.

Sightless66Jan 30, 20161 votes

Well, you get the insta heal -50 base value + HoT. 50 health less on the W certainly doesn't look good.

DracosKasuJan 29, 20163 votes

But then griev wound will work against the heal because it will be considerate as a self heal

CrazedPorcupineJan 29, 20161 votes

I don't think so, I think it'll be considered an outside heal over time as buff

Just tested, It's a buff, not a "Self regen enhancment" this means that Grievous wounds doesn't affect it.

Meep ManJan 29, 20161 votes

Well, I mean, I guess if you want 15 more health and 10 more mana over 5 seconds rather than 30 more instant health on an ally, that's all you!

FantasySniperJan 29, 20164 votes

http://i460.photobucket.com/albums/qq328/PaulSouthron/Fishy%20Sticks/DarkFishyStick.jpg

HigeRJan 29, 20164 votes

Well these are Air client changes, probably very tentative but honestly I hope they don't come through without a bit more thought because this will destroy soraka :S I mean I understand that Soraka is a pain in the butt and her healing is over the top but in reality making Soraka function is tightly tied with hitting your Q, if not you'll end up killing yourself non-stop.

It's cool that her heal now is not instant, what I don't find good is that when you heal a champion, you loose the health regen buff :S so you'll kill yourself even more... of course you can wait until the regen wears off but then your heals will be weaker (heal + regen is more health back)... it's kind of a lose-lose for Soraka

Also, hitting Q is not as easy as it seems, yeah you may manage to hit some and regain all your health currently but you spend more mana trying to hit it than actually healing your partner, with this change even if you hit it you'll have to wait until you're able to heal again

SaiannaJan 29, 20163 votes

Soraka with Warmong doesn't care lol

Support EvelynnJan 29, 20163 votes

No, whoever thought of these should be fired. This is a straight gutting no matter how you look at it. I will literally report anyone who picks this champion now that's how trash she'll be (not really but I'd feel like it).

Supreme Senpai69Jan 29, 20162 votes

They gutted her and didn't fix the issue that she's just a healbot. If anything it's worse now because her W mana cost is increased, forcing you to have to only heal and not waste mana on any other ability. And they decreased the damage on critting your Q so now you're less likely to use it.

But... yay.

Penguin EclipseJan 29, 20162 votes

If these changes go through she needs her Q range back. It is way to risky for her to use it effectively.

Ulquiorra995Jan 29, 20162 votes

And after seeing new numbers, unless they get drastically buffed Raka is going to be absolutely useless now.

First of all, her W is way less cost-effective now. It heals far less at a higher mana cost and same old HP cost. Except she has no ways to cover those HP costs anymore because of how shitty her new self-heal is. Current rank 1 W self heal is way better than new rank 5 self heal, and that's saying something.

ModWulf HelhammerJan 29, 20161 votes

I'm still a but confused by them. Does she still trade her own health to heal others?

MrBuffingtonJan 29, 20163 votes

From what I understand: Her self heal is now on her Q, and it's a heal over time. If she heals an ally with her W, the heal-over-time she had on herself transfers over to her ally. Her W still has a health cost

Basically, Soraka now can't just spam W while hitting enemies with Q to keep herself at full health; if she's getting healed by her Q, she either has to wait a bit longer before healing her allies to benefit the most from her self-heal, or she can use it to transfer more healing to her ally by using W. It also prevents Soraka from kiting around, healing herself with Q while the enemy is slowed and can't deal enough damage to kill her.

ModWulf HelhammerJan 29, 20161 votes

I can go for that

Lady HammerlockJan 29, 20161 votes

{quoted}

From what I understand: Her self heal is now on her Q, and it's a heal over time. If she heals an ally with her W, the heal-over-time she had on herself transfers over to her ally. Her W still has a health cost

Basically, Soraka now can't just spam W while hitting enemies with Q to keep herself at full health; if she's getting healed by her Q, she either has to wait a bit longer before healing her allies to benefit the most from her self-heal, or she can use it to transfer more healing to her ally by using W. It also prevents Soraka from kiting around, healing herself with Q while the enemy is slowed and can't deal enough damage to kill her.

you forgot she now also regens mana via that new feature she can even give it to an ally(same way as the heal overtime)

Penguin EclipseJan 29, 20162 votes

{quoted}

you forgot she now also regens mana via that new feature she can even give it to an ally(same way as the heal overtime)

The mana is a gimmick. The ability costs more mana than it replenishes until the ability is maxed and that is assuming you hit a target enemy champion. Yeah it's great that you can pass it off to an ally. Except that to do so you need to spend 100 mana (60 + >40) + 5% of your maximum health. That's an incredible cost and it is unclear if she loses the Q buff once it is passed on. And it is also unclear if her regular W heal still applies or not.

Lady HammerlockJan 29, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I'm still a but confused by them. Does she still trade her own health to heal others?

yep ti doo

Nagoh ShanJan 29, 20161 votes

What I want to know is if she gets a stack of alignment for each champion hit, or if she just gets one regardless of the number of enemies hit.

It's a really creative idea though.

Sightless66Jan 29, 20161 votes

We won't know until the next PBE update because it appears to not be activated on the client right now, but as written I think she only gets one stack no matter how many enemies are hit.

VDc0zCqe0wJan 29, 20161 votes

the idea is good, the execution is terrible, the numbers are completely off

Kr1sysJan 29, 20162 votes

{quoted}

the idea is good, the execution is terrible, the numbers are completely off

It's like they should put it in testing or something to see if how off those numbers are

Pandemic PunchJan 29, 20161 votes

Revert Soraka to the previous state.

Dominick DestineJan 29, 20161 votes

RIP in peace, Soraka.

DrackolusJan 29, 20161 votes

I'm all for nerfing Soraka (stop banning my main!) and bringing back the mana heal is more than welcome... but this is a huge step back in terms of interractability. AP doesn't give a real amount of self-healing, so I now would have to build a warmog's/spirit visage, and there's no reason to get close to combat anymore since I don't get more healing for hitting multiple enemies, plus I only really need to w half as often just to transfer alignment. And, since the slow is so much easier to land, it's much easier for me to avoid getting hit.

You're not touching me, and I'm not touching you. Ever. I'm gonna sit in the back, q your tank every once in a while, and heal people from far away because I already put a heal over time on them (which is constantly refreshing the armor/mr/as/on-hit from the windspeaker's+ardent censer). I'm not even in the fight and I'm doing work. And don't get me started on laning phase. The only thing making me go back before was my marksman's mana bar. No longer a problem. If you hated Soraka before, you will loathe her now, even if she has a 45% winrate.

Skia AsteriJan 29, 20161 votes

Interesting direction, numbers are way off the mark though. A single use of Astral Infusion costs ~186 hp at level 18, and she will only be able to regain about half of that per Q. And Q has over twice the cooldown of W. If having her self heal be too strong in lane is an issue, they should look into some combination of increasing the AP ratio, add addition base value based on Soraka's level, and making Alignment stronger when at low HP for the healing component. Or cause her to gain multiple stacks of Alignment (reducing mana regain per stack) and be able to hand them out one at a time.

HigeRJan 30, 20161 votes

at lvl 18 you should be able to hit more than one target though... here's hoping the buff stacks up to 5 times at least :S

Skia AsteriJan 30, 20161 votes