I don't care if Azir is good, I don't care if he's bad

HateDaddy·Jun 10, 2016·141 votes·8,180 views

Regardless of his state of power, he is just flat out unfun to play against. You literally have to win the game before 25 minutes or he stalls it out with his passive, wave clear and disengage and gets to a point where he DPS's your front line down and bursts your backline.

The amount of resources you have to use to deal with him just feel so unfair. Other similar dps mages suffer from immobility and diving them doesn't require 2-3 champions focusing on them. And those mages don't poke you into oblivion from behind walls.

Nothing about Azir feels fair when playing against him and he is so anti melee that only champions who can out range him or have spammable dashes can deal with him.

I am tied of seeing him nerfed to trash, buffed slightly back up and suddenly he's dominant again. Azir was a mistake, you guys honestly need to rework this champion.

229 Comments

The DeckownerJun 10, 201614 votes

mage with cc= normal mage with burst=normal mage with long range=nothing special mage with dps=balance issues that are very hard to solve(look at ryze, cass) mage with mobility=Is this even legal? mage with longrange cc brust dps and mobility=WTF RITO?

The Bardic GayJun 11, 20166 votes

Lissandra is a good example of a healthy mage with mobility in her kit, so its definately allowed.

The DeckownerJun 11, 20163 votes

Lissandra's mobility is very limited since it has a set up time(balanced because it is telegraphic) and is used mostly as a initiation with rest of her kit, meanwhile azir's shrifting sand can be used anywhere anytime can go through the entire lane can turn 90 degrees and you never know where he is going before he actually finished moving.

MarshbouyJun 10, 201612 votes

He's balanced because he takes skill and stuff. Otherwise i agree

HateDaddyJun 10, 201634 votes

{quoted}

He's balanced because he takes skill and stuff. Otherwise i agree

Being balanced around skill isn't a thing. If champions are to be balanced around the highest level of play, which they are, then the skill the champion requires isn't relevant.

It's not his lane phase that bothers me, though he's actually pretty decent once he has a few levels and he's deceptively difficult to gank. It's how he's practically auto win late game if the Azir player is good and it just feels like you have to spend way too much to even attempt to kill him, nevermind actually doing it.

SylverblitzJun 10, 20167 votes

You could almost have been describing Zed with the way you describe his laning ability, skills that let him hit the back line and the front line and very difficult to gank. It's because of this that I think the only real way to gank him is similar to Zed. You have to wait until his dash (shadow for Zed) is on cooldown. Any other time and you will have a very hard time doing it.

I don't know how the matchup goes right now but Xerath used to be good with his range against Azir and that seems to be key. If Azir wants to do damage to you he has to get somewhat close or his soldiers stop attacking.

LooknookJun 10, 20164 votes

I think in general against Azir you either want an assassin to burst him or a poke champ to out range him. So Xerath, Ziggs, and mid Varus should all do well in theory.

SylverblitzJun 10, 20162 votes

I keep forgetting about Ziggs. If only I could forget about the times I had to face him......

TNHA BaritoneJun 10, 20168 votes

Like mages usually get around 600 AP late game. It is like each soldier is a separate ADC. Then its annoying on no matter how you can shit on him and then give it a few minutes and you realize that same guy you shitted on is DPSing your back line and has a wall that blocks your front line.

Br4ndonJun 11, 20165 votes

Exactly, people used the same argument to defend Thresh when he was too strong. Some arguments would be "But people dont even click his lantern" or "Most Threshes miss their hooks anyway".

LadyRenlyJun 10, 201610 votes

He's a Pantheon tier lane bully for melee champions but doesn't fall off like a truck. Because "skillcap"

EROTIC RAID BOSSJun 10, 20169 votes

Kinda feel like he has some unappreciated weaknesses.

for example burning his e to escape will lower his mana significantly, so you can force him to back or play with low mana- which isn't safe or effective. He also pretty much has to stay mid- he is a very ineffective roamer. if you roam he'll probably stay mid and until he has nashors tooth he won't just destroy your tower like he used to. and 1v1 he has a pretty large amount of relatively unfavorable matchups, especially if he isn't safe by his tower.

I understand the feeling people have facing him though, but I hope riot doesn't ruin the stuff people love about playing azir- his kit is really interesting and makes cool plays. And it doesn't seem impossible to balance him, he was big at msi but now a lot of other mid laners are showing up in pro play, even before the removal of a lot his utility last patch

NichtHurzJun 11, 20164 votes

The problem just is that he's got insane burst, maybe not like an assassin but still crazy high for the low amount of effort he has to put into it, but he still can deal crazy amounts of sustained damage as well while being really tough to engage on or predict his movement. Even as a tank with focus on MR it's enough for me to stand near his soldiers like 2 seconds to take crazy amounts of damage. I'm not even high Elo and most Azir players around here are quite bad, but even those who lose laning phase and get into lategame can be way too dangerous for having the mechanical Azir skills of a potato. Combine this with actually good high elo Azir and you have a siege-defender, siege, playmaker, high burst, high dps, mobile, rather long range champ with a quite overloaded kit (not even in the way the single abilities work, it's more about how they interact).

Ariel the CruelJun 11, 20169 votes

The problem just is that he's got insane burst

Never forget. Riot labeled his Q burst as unhealthy and unintended. Right before they nerfed his DPS and buffed his Q poke.

. . . Because. . . Logic.

EROTIC RAID BOSSJun 11, 20161 votes

You say that he has all these great points even for unskilled players, and yes his damage late game is very high, but despite this huge list he's always had a very low win rate. Currently its 46% and that's for high elo players. For players with hundreds of games on azir the win rate is more like 54% but that's also true of the experienced win rate on almost any champ, usually around 55 or 60.

So it really isn't like he's insanely op. He does have a lot of strengths, I'd say he also does have some distinct weaknesses.

Id also say his burst even late game is fairly normal for a mage, it's the sustained damage zones he sets up that's a unique strength

Of course they could make changes to him because he does have good range and safety but id hope theyd continue to let him have his strengths and define his weaknesses like theyve been doing so far

NichtHurzJun 11, 20163 votes

He still has quite a high skillcap and isn't some champ you just play and win, but the moment you play vs. a halfway decent Azir you'll encounter some really obnoxious damage and chases.

So yeah, Riot has to define his strenghts and weaknesses more and should decide weither he should burst people down or be more of a sustained damage dealer and control mage.

EROTIC RAID BOSSJun 11, 20161 votes

its fairly normal for control mages to have burst too.

he has a high skillcap but even with experienced players his win rate isn't through the roof or anything

WoonStruckJun 11, 20162 votes

Ryze has a higher skillcap.

Lucian has a higher skill-cap.

The only hard part about Azir is Insec. The rest is frustratingly simple, especially due to his range and safety.

The other two options had burst and dps and got gutted. Meanwhile, people beg for Azir to be buffed.

Its illogical. He needs a rework. Just like every iteration of Ryze and Lucian so far.

Azir also has the advantage of zone control, high range, CC, mobility, displacement, which neither Ryze nor Lucian have ever had more than one of.

Face it. Azir is a broken concept and needs to be rebuilt from the ground up.

An Undead bratJun 11, 20164 votes

The rest is frustratingly simple

What

Did you ever play Azir? Not only Azirsec, but even Shurima shuffle itself is hard to pull off, move, attack, move is extremely clunky until you have enough ATS and MVS, learning his freaking ranges! You're going to fuck up so many Qs until you learn them, that's a big problem cause of how he's manahungry early and mid, if you don't build mana

MinuanoJun 11, 20166 votes

A lot of champions are ticking time bombs like Azir though. He's a hyper carry.

ForgiveColourJun 11, 201619 votes

Hes a hyper carry thats also a lane bully/mid game carry/long range poke/control mage

EROTIC RAID BOSSJun 11, 20162 votes

He's actually weakest compared to opponents prob around mid game, after 6. Unless he can wall you to his turret he will likely lose 1v1, and that's when most players start roaming too, which he can't match or follow

ForgiveColourJun 11, 20166 votes

item 3115 item 3116 item 3135

lol yeah his mid game spike so weak xd

jks those make him late game already

Serpents EmbraceJun 13, 20163 votes

He's weakest at level 1.

He isn't weak any other time.

SeenanJun 10, 20165 votes

Lol, the 'skill' Azir takes is not incorporated in his regular laning rotation of 'summon soldier, autoautoautoautoauto'. It comes from his dash->ult combos. With that said, they can re-add the power to his ult, and nerf his soldiers.

Papa SlothyJun 10, 20163 votes

I think his q damage needs to be majorly tuned down, late game it deals A RIDICULOUS amount of damage and lets him burst squishies instantly

XeroKimoJun 10, 20161 votes

Lol they've tuned down the damage on his Q so many times already...... pretty much using that Q and one or two autos on a squishy would kill them after you had rylais and nashors before. Azir has had nothing but nerfs and power shifts since his release...... that is if I recall correctly

ElewdJun 11, 20164 votes

they need to reduce the slow on it or just remove it, you can't avoid getting hit 3 times by the soldiers if he hits you with Q. its not even fun.

blfUvZ8YbuJun 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

they need to reduce the slow on it or just remove it, you can't avoid getting hit 3 times by the soldiers if he hits you with Q. its not even fun.

Slow only 25%.Learn the game and Azir.

ElewdJun 11, 20161 votes

it stacks with every additional soldier, and any decent azir uses his Q with 2 soldiers so you can even walk away until you've been auto'd twice. its awful and it shouldnt stack.

Papa SlothyJun 11, 20161 votes

they should remove the stacking slow (only 1 applies) and further lower q damage

ElewdJun 11, 20161 votes

if it was only 1 soldier dash applied the slow i'd be fine with the damage, i just hate the damage + the 50% slow thats always comes with that you can't walk away from 2 autos after it.

Papa SlothyJun 11, 20162 votes

yea, I play quite a bit of Azir and late game I can go q auto auto auto (give or take 1 more auto) to take out an ADC

you have to be fairly fed to do that but that slow makes his soldiers toxic af

VentusDragoonJun 10, 20165 votes

Anti-melee? I can understand when his ult is up, but pretty much all melee champions absolutely destroy him when he doesn't have it up, especially since he doesn't have the popup on his E anymore.

I don't see what's the big fuss about Azir lately. Considering his repeated nerfs, and the fact that he wasn't TOO overly strong before (like how people have heartburn over Leblanc and Ekko), he really shouldn't be too difficult to work against. When the Azir player is good, yes, he'll be able to pull off some flashy plays, that's what the champion was intended to do.

He doesn't need a rework, people just need to realize that he has almost no way to stay alive outside of his ult (especially if you just move in front of him when he tries to dash...) and he's still pretty susceptible to poke. In addition, he has a pretty sad early game, at least until level 6. Of course he's supposed to be strong 25 minutes into the game, he's a lategame champion. Just like Tristana is strong 25 minutes in, or Vayne is strong 25 minutes in, or Nasus is strong 25 minutes in.

NineTailedMysticJun 10, 20166 votes

"Pretty sad early game"

You mean how he pokes out anyone but Lux Xerath or Ziggs?

SeargentAnusJun 11, 20162 votes

Velkoz is his number one counter.

HateDaddyJun 11, 20165 votes

{quoted}

Anti-melee? I can understand when his ult is up, but pretty much all melee champions absolutely destroy him when he doesn't have it up, especially since he doesn't have the popup on his E anymore.

Why would Azir be around a melee when he doesn't have ult?

I don't see what's the big fuss about Azir lately. Considering his repeated nerfs, and the fact that he wasn't TOO overly strong before (like how people have heartburn over Leblanc and Ekko), he really shouldn't be too difficult to work against. When the Azir player is good, yes, he'll be able to pull off some flashy plays, that's what the champion was intended to do.

Are you kidding? He was the best mid laner in the game for literally 3-4 patches until he was recently nerfed

He doesn't need a rework, people just need to realize that he has almost no way to stay alive outside of his ult (especially if you just move in front of him when he tries to dash...) and he's still pretty susceptible to poke. In addition, he has a pretty sad early game, at least until level 6. Of course he's supposed to be strong 25 minutes into the game, he's a lategame champion. Just like Tristana is strong 25 minutes in, or Vayne is strong 25 minutes in, or Nasus is strong 25 minutes in.

Except his lane phase is only week 1-4, after that it's not. And please be real, he's pick or ban in professional play. Are you telling me pros need to learn how to dive him when his ult is down? And he's not super weak early game, that's such an h true statement. He can farm safely and he's only weak against champs who can out range him and even then, he can still farm safely.

Also, Nasus starts to fall off at 25 minutes

MessaigaJun 11, 20165 votes

This is somewhat inaccurate. His laning phase between levels 1-4 is actually quite good. He is less strong in comparison to others around level 6, since other champions have stronger harass into all-in. Once Azir picks up an early stinger is the beginning of ridiculousness. And this can all be attributed to the existence of Thunderlord's Decree, which he abuses ever so well.

Akali is SO HOTJun 11, 20165 votes

Laning phase is literally just Summon Soldier, Q, auto attack, auto attack, auto attack, farm, and repeat. Even a monkey can do that without effort. Zone control mages have high burst but no sustained damage while this guy has both each in large amounts. In addition to that he has his fuck you button that makes it so melees can never get to him as well as his turret that basically traps you in your spawn lol.

INoble KnightIJun 11, 20161 votes

Wait so his 3 second wall makes it so melees can never attack him? That a joke?

My Waifu VanillaJun 11, 20162 votes

Try playing Akali, Diana, Kha, or any other melee into an Azir and see how long 3 seconds is when he does 3/4 your health while you are his little bitch on the other side of the wall since you actually cannot touch him.