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I feel so bad when i'm against a Free Win

UdoIkOSc4u··3 votes·512 views

I mean Fiddlesticks Rammus nerfed hard when they didn't see any competitive play while LeeSin is in everygame i feel so bad when i'm against him it is so toxic he is in trouble while he is doing a gank nvm kick them away and force them to recall cause my ulti deal a shitload amount of damage and next time he will gank he will have the ulti again for knockme back to the enemy tower,playing against lee sin is becaming too stressfull for me overall when i think why is this abomination allowed to be so OP and all the other junglers got nerfed hard while he was even better than them? it is just pure favoritism Rito a time even stated this:Tanks go straight into a fight, have natural survivability, sustained damage patterns, team utility/CC and are usually not attractive targets to try and take down if you've got any better options. Assassins by contrast tend to flank, have extremely high target selection and burst, low team utility, lack constant survivability (instead relying on other tools like mobility, untargetability, stealth etc) and are usually great targets to kill if you can focus them. Combining those two categories risks creating very tanky, mobile champions with high CC/utility that set up their own kills, are extremely hard to take down and will happily chew through an entire team.THAN LEE SIN STILL DO THOSE THINGS BETTER THAN Zac AND JarvanIV pre nerf please riot hear me it is becaming too stressful to play against this champ and i feel like if you nerf an other jungler before him i'm gonna unistall this game,cause it is really UNFAIRRRRRRRR RITO E-SPORTS RELASED A TIER LIST OF THE MOST POWERFUL CHAMPS PLAYED in competitive played the list was: Gnar FOR TOP(NERFED HARD IN THIS PATCH), Janna (NERFED HARD); LeeSin THE KING OF THE JUNGLE IN EVERY SEASON AS THEY STATED(UNTOUCHED); Jayce (UTTERLY NERFED); Corki (NERFED); Please community and riot hear me and support this thread it is time to nerf Lee Sin In the meanwhile let's do a game here i start: Why is lee sin allowed to have 350 ms with an almost no cd Q? and run faster than a pony?

8 Comments

ModKnightsKemplar3 votes

I wish I could find the thread, I looked hard for it for you but couldn't find it. I'll summarize.

Phreak had a really great thread of comments where he was defending Riot's design decisions in general. In this thread, he quoted stats about lee sin's actual win rate, and it's much lower than people seem to think. Basically, Phreak argues that Lee Sin is more fun than lots of champs, but not overpowered.

In my opinion (heavily influenced by the article I referenced here), if he were overpowered, his win rate would reflect that more accurately, especially at higher tiers. If someone can find that thread or knows it, please post here. It's a good one whether you agree or disagree with the comments. I think it reveals a lot about the thought process that Riot, as a company, takes on balance issues.

UdoIkOSc4u1 votes

{quoted}

I wish I could find the thread, I looked hard for it for you but couldn't find it. I'll summarize.

Phreak had a really great thread of comments where he was defending Riot's design decisions in general. In this thread, he quoted stats about lee sin's actual win rate, and it's much lower than people seem to think. Basically, Phreak argues that Lee Sin is more fun than lots of champs, but not overpowered.

In my opinion (heavily influenced by the article I referenced here), if he were overpowered, his win rate would reflect that more accurately, especially at higher tiers. If someone can find that thread or knows it, please post here. It's a good one whether you agree or disagree with the comments. I think it reveals a lot about the thought process that Riot, as a company, takes on balance issues.

NOT OVERPOWERED NOT OVER POWERED WTF STOP MARIJUANA WEED AND ALL OTHER THINGS YOU AND PHREAK DRUGS ARE BAD

N00BC8K31 votes

{quoted}

NOT OVERPOWERED NOT OVER POWERED WTF STOP MARIJUANA WEED AND ALL OTHER THINGS YOU AND PHREAK DRUGS ARE BAD

no there not :) they win games :P

Leti the Yeti1 votes

idk i found lee sin to be a toxic top laner too kinda like how rek sai was they both have the insane mobility unparalleled low lvl dueling infinite sustain AoE damage/cc dont see lee sin getting nerfed like rek sai ;l

Atleast reksai is binary a semi decent lee sin will make it hell for you turret cant save you lol Q to minion behind other champ kick his ass out of turret range safeguard to your minion kicking other dudes ass

gg, repeat everytime he comes back and tries to turret hug

Bears Dont Care1 votes

{quoted}

I wish I could find the thread, I looked hard for it for you but couldn't find it. I'll summarize.

Phreak had a really great thread of comments where he was defending Riot's design decisions in general. In this thread, he quoted stats about lee sin's actual win rate, and it's much lower than people seem to think. Basically, Phreak argues that Lee Sin is more fun than lots of champs, but not overpowered.

In my opinion (heavily influenced by the article I referenced here), if he were overpowered, his win rate would reflect that more accurately, especially at higher tiers. If someone can find that thread or knows it, please post here. It's a good one whether you agree or disagree with the comments. I think it reveals a lot about the thought process that Riot, as a company, takes on balance issues.

It doesn't work that way, win rate is hardly accurate in regards to Champion success primarily because of the following

  1. It is a team game, thusly, while a champion may be overpowered throughout the entire game, that does not mean the rest of the team will reflect the same behavior. It becomes a matter of composition, but a character who is overpowered can stifle the metagame for a lane such as Lee sin, who has forced the game into early pressure constantly and in turn, suffocates viability.

  2. Win rate isn't going to be an accurate representation, ever. Simply because 1 team must lose, 1 team must win, and so you need to measure how often a champion is picked, how influential they were in the game, and several other issues that are more qaulitative than quantitative. However, if a Champion is being picked consistently despite the composition of the team, then it is problematic. An example.

MvC2: You will always have Magneto, Sentinel, or Storm, as a part of your team composition because of how powerful and flexible they are and how necessary it is for them to be present for you to win. Naturally, fighting games have slightly different balancing rules, but in the case of League, Lee is problematic because unlike Magneto, senti, and storm, he doesn't increase diversity for his team or for the game. Instead, he stifles the diversity of what can be picked against him so he is a problematic cahracter.

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

I fundamentally disagree. You are right in your assessment that for any ONE game, you wouldn't know if you won because Lee Sin was there or not. However, by definition, if Lee Sin was OP, it would mean that he won a higher percentage of his games relative to the average champion.

Statistics DO work that way. That is what they are useful for.

Now, you may have a point because what if the other team is ALSO picking an OP jungler? Maybe I'm misinterpreting you, and this is what is the heart of your argument. Sure. But that's why I reference the article. I think Riot has the tools to assess that. Do I wish they were more transparent about that, perhaps? Sure. But that's also difficult to do. It's hard for them to process all the data they have on games (think about how many games that is; if you've ever worked with large volumes of data, you know what I mean), let alone share it with us.

It's not a great situation to just have to trust them, but that's where we are.

DJ Siamak1 votes

None of the other champions that you stated went without seeeing a lot of LCS play.

Fiddles/Rammus were way more niche and only played rarely, but they were shitting on solo queue.

FatesDefiler1 votes

what the world's jesuit government order did with china, and what riot is doing with lee sin.

during the end of ww2, a U.S. general devised a strategy to quote 'put china back into the stone age.' the general was forbidden from executing this strategy. 50 years later the entire manufacturing industry of the U.S. has been sold to China, the United States is robbed of all it's inventions and technology given away by corrupted jesuit pedophile politicians. soon, if not already, China will surpass the U.S. in economy and it was all done intentionally by those same jesuit pedophiles in order to destroy and discredit the United States.

It's pretty much the exact same situation with Lee Sin and Riot.

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