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What can be done about Caitlyn?

Remlap1223··3 votes·913 views

As I'm sure you're all well aware, Caitlyn isn't in a very good spot right now. Despite being the best bot lane bully second only to Miss Fortune, Caitlyn isn't doing so hot right now, despite a number of buffs that have been shuffled her way. I think the big issue here is actually how bad she's doing against Vayne, despite being one of her premier counters alongside her fellow ADC lane bully MF, but Miss Fortune is actually still rocking a positive win ratio against Vayne, despite having the lowest pick rate out of the ADCs.

Oh, and let's leave the "hurr durr nerf Vayne's most OP champion in the game ass" out of the comments. Vayne hasn't been touched in forever, yet after a round of buffs on Caitlyn, she's still going negative on her. So what's the problem?

I can think of a couple of things:

  1. Her itemization sucks. Back when Caitlyn was godly in Season 3, ADCs had some godawful itemization, and the only other one who really benefited from the way the itemization used to work was Miss Fortune, but her kit was actually WORSE than it is now, so naturally Caitlyn was the only one left (and Jinx wouldn't blast her way into being another popular OP QQ choice until Season 4). Now, Caitlyn only receives a fraction of the benefit that Bloodthirstier granted her back when it gave stacks, indirectly nerfing her.
  2. Her kit is a mess. I mean in terms of numbers. Her kit actually meshes pretty solidly, but my god are her numbers all over the place. Not to mention her ultimate is one of the easiest to counteract in the game. Caitlyn is a champion that seems to me to be built for Triforce, yet loses an insane amount of damage potential because she can't build Yomumu's because that's an extremely inefficient item on her. I think she needs some more AD ratios on her abilities because building her straight AD isn't cutting the mustard. Her ultimate also needs a missing health ratio on it because its so unreliable that when she did get played in the LCS, it was exclusively an initiation tool because I can only count a handful of times I've successfully sniped someone with Caitlyn without them escaping on 10 health.
  3. She's just not what we're looking for right now. I think this could also apply to Corki, Lucian, and Miss Fortune to a lesser extent, but AD carries with super strong early games just aren't what's hot right now. Right now the premier ADCs are Jinx, Tristana, and Vayne, all of who have meh to decent early games, but carry a lot harder in the late game than MF, Lucian, and Corki do to make up for the fact that the latter have some pretty nasty early games to deal with in lane. Caitlyn is in the same boat, but I feel that her late game is just too weak. All she has going for her right now is her range, and her early game damage and safety engages end game are too capped by just an unimpressive damage output. I mean, she's already pretty bad in teamfights as is due to how much her damage drops off if she hits more than one target with her Q, or a minion blocks her E, or Thresh or Leona just laugh off her ultimate (or heaven forbid Braum just nullifies it). Her power curve is just really unimpressive. She's got a decent early game, a mediocre mid game, and a late game that either wrecks if the enemy team is squishy, or is just completely ignorable if the team is tanky (juggernauts anyone?)

So what could be done?

  1. Make her headshot deal true damage instead of amplified damage on champions with bonus armor ignore. Doesn't make her any more lethal to squishes than she already is, but doesn't make her completely ignorable to tanks either.
  2. Lower her Q's mana cost late game. I mean, it's her only consistent damaging ability, and it already is capped pretty hard for damage. No need to hurt her in terms of mana cost as well.
  3. Give her E a bonus AD ratio like Ezreal, since it is another one of her main sources of damage. It hurts early game, but is completely ignorable late game, despite being the second thing you max in her kit.
  4. Give the poor girl a missing %health damage on her ultimate so Jinx doesn't shuffle away with 3 health just because you had the audacity to ult her when she had 250 health, but she somehow managed to regen back just enough HP to survive.

19 Comments

NapaIm3 votes

Huge Caitlyn fan here, played her second to MF. Her real issue right now is just how outclassed she is. She used to be the go=to for seiging. Her early game is still fantastic, but most games are not decided early. Both Trist and Jinx not only out range her, which is actually sad, but they eat towers three times as fast. Both are also super safe. Jinx has explosive AoE teamfights from farther back than Caitlyn, and Trist does the same with more self-peel. Both of them are not going to be absolutly murdered early by Caitlyn either.

Honestly, if Caitlyn needs 2 things, its the missing % HP on her ult. That is needed. The ult just doesn't kill as easily anymore, and its already super simple to block. I agree there. Next thing I would give is...25 range. Yeah, thats the massive buff I want for Caitlyn. With 25 more range, she can be just a bit safer, and compete with the other 2 adcs a lot better. It is a massive buff to Caitlyn, but I think the Sheriff needs it.

darkdill1 votes

Caitlyn just got a buff. Her traps got a better cooldown at early ranks, and the mana cost was reduced to 30 from 50.

MisterHealYoGirl2 votes

But to be fair, it's not like Caitlyn was like "I'd be CRUSHING this level 2 teamfight if only i had MORE TRAPS!". The lategame cooldown is the same, and the mana cost wasn't huge anyway. The OP's main point was that Caitlyn falls off pretty hard lategame, not that her laning phase isn't a terror to behold.

darkdill1 votes

Caitlyn's not supposed to be as strong as other ADCs in late-game. That's her tradeoff for having a godly early game. Granted, she's still potent in late-game like all ADCs, but she's not going to outperform Jinx or Ashe.

MisterHealYoGirl2 votes

I'm not saying that she needs buffs, just that the recent buff doesn't address the weaknesses that the OP took issue with.

DrShoking1 votes

if she got an attack speed boost every 3rd or 2nd headshot she'd be perfectly viable

her main problem is that caitlyn is an autoattack adc, that's where most of her damage comes from but every other adc has an attack modifier allowing them to outclass her in anything other than in lane poke. Her headshot is nifty but it can't compete with other adcs.

Remlap12232 votes

See, I don't like that idea, because being a good ADC without an AS steroid is kinda what made Caitlyn awesome. The problem is she doesn't have the damage to back that up anymore thanks to the itemization changes. She just hasn't been the same since the rework of the itemization in Season 4. Hopefully by Season 6 they'll update it again, and she and MF can go back into the meta again.

Hayaishi21 votes

What can you give to that 650 range abomination without making her queen of bot lane again?

Remlap12231 votes

Yes, you're absoultely right, Caitlyn has no counters whatsoever.

Oh wait...

Jinx Tristana Varus

Not to mention the fact that she falls off in the late game more than any other ADC.

Hayaishi21 votes

{quoted}

Yes, you're absoultely right, Caitlyn has no counters whatsoever.

Oh wait...

Jinx Tristana Varus

Not to mention the fact that she falls off in the late game more than any other ADC.

Irrelevant to what i said, what an illiterate.

Remlap12231 votes

How is stating that you can pick against a champion irrelevant? Because a champion has a counter, they have counterplay. In that case, the counterplay is to not be a pussy and give Caitlyn free poke. I mean Jesus, I can stomp Caitlyn playing goddamn Miss Fortune, so you should be able to pick up Sivir and do the exact same thing.

You should probably not call people names if you can't even come up with a decent rebuttal other than "hur dur your a idiot"

Hayaishi21 votes

{quoted}

How is stating that you can pick against a champion irrelevant? Because a champion has a counter, they have counterplay. In that case, the counterplay is to not be a pussy and give Caitlyn free poke. I mean Jesus, I can stomp Caitlyn playing goddamn Miss Fortune, so you should be able to pick up Sivir and do the exact same thing.

You should probably not call people names if you can't even come up with a decent rebuttal other than "hur dur your a idiot"

You can do that now CURRENTLY.

My comment was about what WOULD happen if she was buffed to be queen of bot lane AGAIN.

Which implies that when she WAS queen of bot lane she was the most awful champion to lane against, and her counters didn't really counter her.

I don't understand why is that so hard to understand, you damn illiterate.

Remlap12231 votes

She was in the exact same position that Vayne is currently in right now. She's wasn't overpowered back when she was queen of bot lane, she just was the least smelliest turd in the shit pile that was the ADC role.

Vayne has counters and counterplay, they just aren't as effective as they should (hence why I made this entire fucking thread in the first place, because Caitlyn does counter Vayne). Caitlyn's reign of terror was brought quickly to an end when Jinx was released, and Jinx hasn't been nerfed since the beginning of the season. Caitlyn will never be the queen of bot lane so long as there's a flat chested albino with a fetish for blowing shit up terrorizing the rift.

Caitlyn wasn't the most awful champion to face, as even back in Season 3 when Miss Fortune had just got done getting her shins kicked in from Riot just power gutting her, I could still go toe to toe with Caitlyn in lane. With her new kit, on top of the buffs she's about to receive, she'll still be able to go toe to toe with her.

Is that enough of a logical rebuttal to you you fucking twit? Or do I have to type in retard?

Bhagswag1 votes

I don't think you know this, but:

The community hates true damage and percent health missing ults.

Remlap12231 votes

Well the community can go eat a fat one.

Having an AA deal true damage every 8 - 5 AAs on a champion with no steroids is perfectly fine. Having a small missing health % so enemies don't escape on 15 health because they regened away from lethal damage is fine. Hell, physical damage is the easiest damage to itemize against anyway.

Just because boards circlejerk about it doesn't make it true. Fizz and LeBlanc were defended back when they still had GW and silence respectively by the boards too, remember?

A Miss Fortune1 votes

My biggest issues with her are;

  1. Her ult is pretty garbage honestly, specifically because of how low the range is to activate it. I thought she was a sniper not Melee Caitlyn.

  2. She has pretty low base stats for not having any auto attack steorids. Especially her movement speed and base attack speed.

  3. Her auto attacks are more buggy than Azir on release.

Fiveofswords1 votes

i tihnk caitlyn is fine. but go ahead and buff her i dont care.

Fiveofswords1 votes

  1. i have no idea what you are talkign about. if you mean that building straight ad is good on cait, which it is, theres plenty of good ad items out there. Bloodthirster still gives lots of ad. but of course ie is the main one. Meanwhile theres also this 25% ad buff item now which didnt exist before.

  2. like any decent ad, her late game 'ad ratio' is her autoattack. her q is really jsut a farming tool (maybe a bit of a harrass people who hide under turret tool) but late game her autoattack will do MORE damage than pressing q, even assuming the q hits. the rest of her stuff are simply to help her with positioning and work just fine for that. Her ult allows her to attack someone she isnt near.it shouldnt be considered a way to finish someone off with 10 health. I have no idea why you think triforce would be good on cait. she should not use most of her abilities at all while fighting, she doesnt need ap, or mana, and certainly not sheen or move speed.

  3. you can feel all you want about caits weak late game, but you are simply incorrect. mf and corki also have good late game. lucian is the only one you mentioned i would agree has a bleh late game. caits late game isnt quite kog maw level, but since late game focuses mroe and more on aa (and its range) hers is quite strong, and i dont know if you are aware that caits passive ability headshot allows her to ignore 50% of the opponents armor...think about that. it makes her better than most adc against tanks. YOu seem to have this bizarre idea that an adc late game does damage by trying to do anything but autoattack. you are wrong sir. cait jsut autoattacks and only uses an ability when things makes that difficult (like she needs a dash, needs to finish someone off you flashed away (ult) needs to cover her flank with cupcakes or snare a person currently in rylais or ga or aatrox passive or whatever. I suggest you stop trying to be fancy with cait (and actually adc in general) in late game and only use their abilities in very situational moments....focus more on just shooting.

ppl seem to have a crazy idea about cait and lux ults...like you should only use them when someone is nearly dead. thats absurd. Damage is damage...i use caits ult whenever some fight happens and im not quite near enough to get directly involved...its jsut a way to help in some way before i get my butt over there. If you kill someone who had 10 health with it...well...thats a lot of wasted damage. it does a lot mroe than 10 damage. her ult is also a great way to harrass your lane opponent. cant be dodged after all and can be done from a safe distance. people freak out when i ult them at full health...makes me laught. but then before long they have to go b and they arent farming and im free farming. mission accomplished. (if they stick around long enough for the cd on it to be back up, then maybe it really will be a kill)

Fiveofswords1 votes

I think its funny that right after my response to this post i played a solo q lol game with caitlyn and got a pentakill. http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/1954373644/37571042?tab=overview

imagine if i used a real weapon?

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