This is probably the worst timing ever to nerf janna and lulu

Rexxiee·Jun 5, 2018·25 votes·7,433 views

If you nerfed them in any other patch before the last 2~3 in this season (including whole last season and ardent meta) i would have agreed, but now its just straight up stupid.

In the current patch, assassins and diving bruisers (irelia/camille) are already overpowered...

Like, im playing against zeds that dont even have to rush duskblade and they can kill me as an adc without even ulting with a ghost blade even if im fed...

This is absurd, not even to mention their current pick + win rates.

49 Comments

Quiet DudeJun 5, 201819 votes

“Nooo they nerfed my freelo!”

RexxieeJun 5, 20187 votes

[{quoted}](name=Quiet Dude,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LlhTTmQ7,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-06-05T17:57:22.956+0000)

“Nooo they nerfed my freelo!”

I dont play support, in fact if you see my posts im the first person to ask for support nerfs.

But right now is quite literally the worst time for it to happen, atleast until they nerf assassins and a few divers a bit and make it so you dont auto lose the game by picking crit adcs since you cant lane against anything.

OverpoweredSoapJun 5, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Quiet Dude,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LlhTTmQ7,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-06-05T17:57:22.956+0000)

“Nooo they nerfed my freelo!”

Rexxiee has constantly complained that supports have been too strong and have had too much influence on the game for awhile.

So what you're implying doesn't really apply here.

SergmeistaJun 5, 20185 votes

[{quoted}](name=Quiet Dude,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LlhTTmQ7,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-06-05T17:57:22.956+0000)

“Nooo they nerfed my freelo!”

But they AREN'T freelo. Irelia iS FREELO. Camille IS FREELO. Zed IS FREELO. Lucian IS FREELO. Kaisa IS STILL FUCKING FREELO EVEN AFTER THE "NERFS". Singed IS FREELO. Supports happen to be the most balanced right now out of all the roles. Them nerfing their shields means that stupid ASSassins will be able to faceroll and destroy squishies in less than a second. They can already do that. I sense that a lot of players are going to leave if those changes actually go through(myself included). They NEED to stop gutting enchanter supports and focus on the actually busted champions that need some much needed attention and nerfs.

GayFluffyUnicornJun 6, 20181 votes

Supports most balanced OMEGALUL. But whatever it doesn|t hurt the playerbase when a few armless player leave the game and high IQ diver and assassin player return.

RainXBladeJun 5, 20181 votes

So be it. I'm tired of people like Lulu and Janna single-handedly invalidating 90% of the league roster.

D357R0Y3RJun 5, 201813 votes

HEY LETS NERF JANNA AND LULU WHEN FIDDLE RAKAN MORGANA ARE BREAKING THE GAME

hehehe rito games

RexxieeJun 5, 201810 votes

{quoted}

HEY LETS NERF JANNA AND LULU WHEN FIDDLE RAKAN MORGANA ARE BREAKING THE GAME

hehehe rito games

Lets also give another buff to zyra shes not at 58% wr yet.

SalsonJun 5, 20182 votes

HEY LETS NERF JANNA AND LULU WHEN FIDDLE RAKAN MORGANA ARE BREAKING THE GAME

The fack, Fiddle is viable?

D357R0Y3RJun 5, 20181 votes

someone didn't follow what happened recently

i don't blame you tho, nobody wants to play the game http://euw.op.gg/champion/fiddlesticks/statistics/support

SalsonJun 5, 20181 votes

If that's supposed to be broken, can we nerf Singed?

VekknaJun 5, 20182 votes

Yes, you should totally be mad that Zyra has the win rate Nami's been sitting on for like 10 patch cycles at double or triple the play rate.

VICHEL CHAOSJun 5, 20187 votes

Damnit, I will actually have to think when using my shield instead of just slapping it on the adc when he is about to do anything even slightly risky! I might even have to stop watching netflix while playing! The HORROR!

Risk of FateJun 5, 20184 votes

[deleted]

TheWizardMJun 5, 20181 votes

It most certainly wouldn't take that much, but then again, LoL isn't particularly known for being well-balanced. Either way the game will feel onesided. Either the support saved the adc and the assassin feels like shit, or vice versa. This of course has alot to do with how assassins work in LoL (high mobility, medium-high risk, oneshotting in 0.2 seconds leaving no time to react), which is a problem, but removing assassins from the game, or at least their current playstyle, would upset alot of people, so that will never happen. Same thing with all tanks really being bruisers in lol. It's really not fair for tanks to basically be better bruisers, but noone wants to play a character that literally deals no damage.

RexxieeJun 5, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fate Fire,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LlhTTmQ7,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-06-05T17:57:00.188+0000)

Weren't people complaining that assassins suck, Janna is freelo, and Lulu has zero counterplay? Besides that, what would it take for the game to be balanced? Everyone doing 1 damage, towers having a billion health, cut out the support and jungle roles making it a 3v3 and removing every ability that's a slow, stun, snare, silence, and invulnerability to it?

At that point, I suggest another hobby.

Poeple live in the past, assassins used to suck but right now they are straight up broken in solo q, and have been very strong for the last few patches.

koshkyraJun 5, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fate Fire,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LlhTTmQ7,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-06-05T17:57:00.188+0000)

Weren't people complaining that assassins suck, Janna is freelo, and Lulu has zero counterplay? Besides that, what would it take for the game to be balanced? Everyone doing 1 damage, towers having a billion health, cut out the support and jungle roles making it a 3v3 and removing every ability that's a slow, stun, snare, silence, and invulnerability to it?

At that point, I suggest another hobby.

No. Nobody was saying. You are completely exaggerating it.

Nobody said "all damage should be 1", we said that damage needs to be lowered. Nobody said that turrets should have a billion health. We said they should be more durable. Nobody said that support and jungle should be removed. Nobody ever said anything like this so i dont even understand what you're exaggerating with this. You just made it up. Nobody ever said all cc should be removed. We said damage needs to be lowered so cc isnt as oppressive.

Please get out if you are just going to blow everything out of proportion to make an argument.

SalsonJun 5, 20181 votes

Weren't people complaining that assassins suck, Janna is freelo, and Lulu has zero counterplay?

Well I mean, they weren't completely wrong.

The amount of people complaining about Nami is pretty much zero, and she's just as strong as those two. At least one can respect a good Nami.

AirKingNeoJun 5, 20184 votes

I mean they should be nerfed

but can we nerf real problems too? Singed Morgana Fiddlesticks Irelia Ornn Gangplank (Grasp Plank)

Badnik96Jun 5, 20184 votes

what happened in the last patch that made fiddle broken? hasnt he been gutter trash for ages?

i havent played since pyke came out

AirKingNeoJun 5, 20187 votes

people played him support instead of jungle because he has strong poke with scorch and aery with his 700 range poke. 700 range equals no trade backs.

and fleet footwork got nerfed.

D357R0Y3RJun 5, 20181 votes

750 range not 700

and it's point and click

DoktorKaiserJun 5, 20183 votes

Janna and Lulu are annoying little shits because they not only fuck up assassins but also any kind of engage on their adc and then proceed to buff and shield so hard to the point when they can just stand still and mow down everyone. On the other hand assassins should just be deleted as they are the most cancer-inducing class that has the least counterplay when they are not garbage tear, also they have the biggest pick rates which absolutely makes me want to quit league or at least mid lane.

MohawkBirdJun 5, 20183 votes

[deleted]

Automated RivenJun 5, 20181 votes

Actually on Lulu casting shield on cooldown wasted Mana as her prior shield was still up. She had to wait about half a second before casting it again.

That's how you could tell good Lulu's from bad Lulu's.

MohawkBirdJun 5, 20181 votes

[deleted]

Automated RivenJun 5, 20181 votes

Sorry. I was being sarcastic. I forgot /s

HethaleanJun 5, 20182 votes

I've always felt that shields should be a poor mechanic that is a 'hard counter' to assassins. They're too easy to use and get a high reward. CC and smart play from your teammates should be what does it. For instance, Janna has Q, and Lulu has her uh polymorph thing. Karma can help you blow up the assassin first. Though Karma is probably the weakest enchanter with the long duration shields.

An assassin's job shouldn't be so hard that a unmisseable shield completely negates you. That's what leads to them needing buffs to do their job, and damage getting out of hand (I know slippery slope argument, but that's how I've seen this pan out in LoL atm)

PeachsPropertyJun 5, 20181 votes

Karma makesu p for it by being able to damage well thoguh.

Automated RivenJun 5, 20181 votes

Until like 15 minutes where you auto lose the game if you use an empowered q.

AptestJun 5, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I've always felt that shields should be a poor mechanic that is a 'hard counter' to assassins. They're too easy to use and get a high reward. CC and smart play from your teammates should be what does it. For instance, Janna has Q, and Lulu has her uh polymorph thing. Karma can help you blow up the assassin first. Though Karma is probably the weakest enchanter with the long duration shields.

An assassin's job shouldn't be so hard that a unmisseable shield completely negates you. That's what leads to them needing buffs to do their job, and damage getting out of hand (I know slippery slope argument, but that's how I've seen this pan out in LoL atm)

The core problem is, most CC from supoprts is set up in such a way that it is avoidable. That is generally not a problem, because you still have a reasonable hit chance, unless you are facing a character that specializes in avoiding avoidable skills, in which case it is, not CC and lose, CC and have it avoided and lose.

CC losees too much reliability VS assassin class, to be considered a reasonable answer.

HethaleanJun 5, 20181 votes

While it is less reliable, it's a better way to do it in my opinion. The arms race between damage and shielding is one of the major components for this damage creep. At least, it's my opinion. I think very few things should be as reliable as shields are currently. As universally low risk / high reward that shields are, they're a bad mechanic for countering a high risk high reward playstyle. It's just too easy is the thing. I'm also not sure that supports are as easily avoided as you're suggesting. Most supports have an easy way to counter an engage from an assassin.

Janna has ult and to a much lesser extent Q (need to be near for it to be highly effective but none the less that instant reactivated Q is pretty effective). Lulu has her ult and polymorph Alistar can headbutt or pulverize purely just to get space. Braum requires you to turn on them but that stun is effective, and the defense steroid + his shield (lots of assassins have a projectile to block) Thresh can flay decently easily into a Q Leona is a good cc bot Soraka has a great silence field which is a huge thing against assassins since they are so ability reliant Sona ult etc

AptestJun 5, 20181 votes

{quoted}

While it is less reliable, it's a better way to do it in my opinion. The arms race between damage and shielding is one of the major components for this damage creep. At least, it's my opinion. I think very few things should be as reliable as shields are currently. As universally low risk / high reward that shields are, they're a bad mechanic for countering a high risk high reward playstyle. It's just too easy is the thing. I'm also not sure that supports are as easily avoided as you're suggesting. Most supports have an easy way to counter an engage from an assassin.

Janna has ult and to a much lesser extent Q (need to be near for it to be highly effective but none the less that instant reactivated Q is pretty effective). Lulu has her ult and polymorph Alistar can headbutt or pulverize purely just to get space. Braum requires you to turn on them but that stun is effective, and the defense steroid + his shield (lots of assassins have a projectile to block) Thresh can flay decently easily into a Q Leona is a good cc bot Soraka has a great silence field which is a huge thing against assassins since they are so ability reliant Sona ult etc

Sure. I'de definitely want to reduce the reliability of assassin's kit down a notch.

HethaleanJun 5, 20181 votes

Yeah, i can definitely get it down. It might be a bit too easy to execute people. I think that's just with the sheer amount of damage to which they've been buffed because it's almost an understanding you're playing with a Janna or Lulu so without those you're pretty toast.

Automated RivenJun 5, 20181 votes

Karma is bad because she has no ult and no instant cast cc. As a result she can't peel well.

HethaleanJun 5, 20181 votes

Agreed.

SalsonJun 5, 20182 votes

This can actually work in everyone's favor, assuming Riot handles the balance correctly.

Currently:

Janna/Lulu broken Janna/Lulu hard counter Zed Zed needs a balanced 50% winrate Zed gets buffed Zed makes laning phase a nightmare for anyone daring to play mid

Hopefully future patch:

Janna/Lulu balanced Janna/Lulu mildly counter Zed Zed becomes broken Zed needs a balanced 50% winrate Zed gets nerfed Zed's becomes more fair to fight in the laning phase

Though they should probably nerf him in the next patch, but oh well....

Exin0Jun 5, 20182 votes

they want push assasins into pro scene which never happend meanwhile mid APC become unviable mages with cc migrate to bot others become "exotic" pick. meta junglers are no different from assasins now and pyke was added to game so assasin on every lane now :/

Athenes LuluJun 5, 20182 votes

yeah thats because enchanters are fucking evil!!

mages botlane and bruisers are good people so they need their power back from those evil enchanters ;-)

KZ EngelJun 5, 20181 votes

i'd rather have a 40 minute game with 100 kills than a 25 minute game with 12 kills

Automated RivenJun 5, 20181 votes

I'm sorry. Don't you feel like maybe irelia and Camille are overpowered and assassin's are so strong because supports are fucking broken without melees even slightly being able to counterplay a competant one?

Maybe if we need the op broken supports then we can push other classes in line where they don't have to be broken against everyone else in order to function.

Skeletons GraveJun 5, 20181 votes

being a fed adc means nothing since u probobly dont have armor or hp items.

An assassin should always win the 1v1 verse an adc after lv 6.

If you die to an assassin with a lulu or janna next to you then your support is trash.

Also the reason why divers and assassins run rampant in solo q is because no1 plays cc tanks, supports are usually playing non peeling support champs, or the support is building like an apc.

THE RlVER KlNGJun 6, 20181 votes

i hate enchanters but this is lowkey very true

The DeckownerJun 6, 20181 votes

Berfing shield duration will not stop Lulu Janna from cockblocking assassins.

IdveYsUfSKJun 6, 20181 votes

The nerf wont do a thing if you are good. Assassins still get blocked if timed well. Its only trying to kill off bad players who are abusing them for freelo. Combat timing has been drastically reduced.