Prediction: If Riots plan to buff tanks is just to buff their damage

LegitBusinessman·Jul 31, 2018·121 votes·21,578 views

The game will die for real for real. At that point its just a battle royale.

96 Comments

AnateraJul 31, 201875 votes

Yeah. They probably will. That's what happens when you staff a balance team with monkeys.

I take that back, a monkey could do better than the current balancers.

Tahminatrix Jul 31, 201838 votes

They just need more monkeys with typewriters and eventually one of them will get it right.

FilDaFunkJul 31, 20186 votes

How do you know that's not already happening?

RiotRiot MapleNectarAug 2, 201821 votes

hmm...we tried this but my typewriter didn't have an ethernet plug or wifi so it didn't work. Then they gave me an etch-a-sketch but also didn't have much luck with that.

Tahminatrix Aug 2, 20183 votes

I wasn't trying to imply the staff members themselves were monkeys, I meant having actual monkeys with type writers being used for ideas with changes. Since according to the laws of infinite probability, one perfect idea may come out of one of those typewriters.

Although riot does tend to put artificial weight on probability....certain champions in aaram/arurf being much more common for example.

In a monkeys for balance ideas case, I guess riot would put weight on the words "buff" and "damage" and somehow implant the monkeys with those words and how to spell them (higher probability that they will be in whatever the monkeys type.)

chipndip1Aug 2, 20182 votes

You wasted your one chance to interact with a Rioter on insulting Rioters. Idk why you're trying to salvage the interaction now.

LarrietAug 2, 20182 votes

I think he was just telling a joke base around the first comment, not agreeing with it. The "room full of monkeys with typewriters" is a model for probability, where, given enough time, literally anything has a chance of happening at least once. In the example, a monkey clanging randomly on keyboards would eventually (over an eternity) write Romeo & Juliet word for word.

Just explaining the joke awkwardly, not trying to salvage anything. :P First guy was definitely rude, though.

Tahminatrix Aug 2, 20181 votes

Yes, otherwise my third/last paragraph wouldn't make sense and would have nothing to do with the second one about weighted probability.

Monkeys being duped as the biological equivalent of random number generators that can have weight in favor of certain outcomes.

Tahminatrix Aug 2, 20181 votes

Salvage what, my joke went through?

You wasted your one chance to interact with me on just taking the situation incorrectly. Notice how equally insignificant that statement is.

Idk why you assume a rioter is anymore special than anyone else to me, my opinion follows the majority of the community and therefore I have nothing important to say as the voice that I support is being expressed and heard by the staff already.

DeathBurstAug 2, 20182 votes

I appreciate you joking about that, but seriously, why is that kind of content allowed? If Anatera was saying that about a fellow player, they would be severely punished. Why are they allowed to say it about Riot employees? That's just... weird. Not to mention it's a big reason the ambiance on these boards can be so toxic at times....

LarrietAug 2, 20182 votes

Customer service is a bit different than regular interpersonal interactions. I work as a waiter, so I definitely agree that it sucks when people say things like that to employees, but ultimately people should be allowed to express their discontent with a service. Flinging insults at the person whose job is essentially to please you (it's not actually their job to please you, specifically, but so to speak) isn't the same as insulting a random person you met. It's a little hard to explain, so I'm sorry if that answer sounds unsatisfying.

DeathBurstAug 2, 20181 votes

I understand what you say, no worries. But I simply don't agree. Flinging insults is never acceptable, and expressing your discontent can be done in a civil and constructive manner. Riot has the legal rights and the technical means to sanction this kind of behavior. By not doing it, they show that it's OK and only let it grow more prevalent. It's a bad idea through and through.

elo trashAug 2, 20182 votes

actually made me laugh, thanks. ill lend you my commodore vic 20, you guys must have dial up over there right?

saltranJul 31, 20183 votes

Honestly if they reduce the utility of tanks and increase the dmg they have tanks could be easier to balance for both pro play and soloQ but OK

Bogdan1945Jul 31, 201816 votes

Screw soloQ, increasing damage and lowering utility means they aren't tanks anymore , they're bruisers , you're effectively losing a role . If they just get more damage they might make bruisers irrelevant since they'll have the damage to compete with the almighty bruisers but more utility and much more lategame relevance

TwitchInMyPantsJul 31, 201832 votes

{quoted}

Honestly if they reduce the utility of tanks and increase the dmg they have tanks could be easier to balance for both pro play and soloQ but OK

The utility and cc of tanks is what makes them unique from bruisers

If you cut that then give them damage there won't be "tanks" in the game, they're all going to be divers that deal a lot of damage

The only thing they could do to get more value is either get more damage or more durability. And tanks are at their most toxic when they can just stack durability and outtrade you because they have high base damage. Them relying on cc and utility makes them more team based and defines the role though at this rate they're all just going to turn into the same class as bruisers and just inflate League of Damage even further.

GorantharonJul 31, 20189 votes

I miss tanks sitting in the fight and control and CC.

Now tanks mostly soak damage for a few seconds while trying to walk out of the fight after teh engage.

LordGeovanniJul 31, 20181 votes

thing is CC other than agro (taunt) and the Occational mini stun is control mage area in other games all this knock up knock back stun stuff not to say that tanks dont have them but in more well balanced games those things are on long cooldown because tanks deal and soak damage while control mages have to skill shot with skills that arent instant cast or super fast. Tanks feel bad because they have super delayed low damage melee range skills so no one wants to play them but when riot buffs their cc damage dealers cry because they got cc locked for standing in a range of a tank that they aren supposed to

icanhazlollerzAug 1, 20181 votes

i know but it will be ok because they can just buff control mage and adc since it got nerfed anyway and then tanks will be back on the bottom and control mage will be where they should and it will just go over and over forever and never end like a run-on sentence

LordGeovanniAug 1, 20182 votes

What got nerfed? Not adcs who saw early game ad nerfs and that changed into buffs after level 6 while getting more hp at the same time. During the same time that they nerf the resolve tree and then nerfed it later again. they are undoing the adc gold nerfs with slight crit drop off.

Automated RivenJul 31, 20184 votes

Honestly at this point with all the percent max hp damage tanks have I wonder if sorc shoes and void staff isn't the best way to play them.

dogehkiinJul 31, 201822 votes

at this point every class is a different type of assasin, Adc: Sustained ranged assasin. Mage: AoE ranged assasin. Skirimisher/bruiser: Sustained melee assasin. "Tank": Base damage CC assasin. Enchanter: Gives extra assasination power to friendly assasins assasin.

Actual assasins: Mobility assasin.

AseraanJul 31, 20187 votes

{quoted}

at this point every class is a different type of assasin, Adc: Sustained ranged assasin. Mage: AoE ranged assasin. Skirimisher/bruiser: Sustained melee assasin. "Tank": Base damage CC assasin. Enchanter: Gives extra assasination power to friendly assasins assasin.

Actual assasins: Mobility assasin.

Thats perfect for making one more trash battle royale game.

Killer of Night9Jul 31, 201813 votes

or their ap ratio "Laugh into gragas buff".

Auz the RipperJul 31, 20184 votes

Gragas has always been somewhere between a Tank and a Mage, so I think that particular buff was at least understandable.

Lil Homie bustaJul 31, 20189 votes

Actually, AP bruiser is a better term.

RiotRiot MapleNectarAug 2, 201813 votes

We're explicitly not exploring damage at this point unless you count reducing some cds (cast spells more, deal more damage over time). The current direction is giving them defensive properties unique to the champion - but we'll see what we're able to land.

Shuriman CuratorAug 2, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Maple Nectar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LMAP0HEU,comment-id=001a,timestamp=2018-08-02T00:54:22.092+0000)

We're explicitly not exploring damage at this point unless you count reducing some cds (cast spells more, deal more damage over time). The current direction is giving them defensive properties unique to the champion - but we'll see what we're able to land.

Maybe slightly off topic, but will you guys be looking at Shen? Looking at ways to make him better in solo q vs pro play?

TheSingularityAug 2, 20182 votes

Unless they rework or remove his signature ultimate, like any other champion with a global ult he will be drastically better in pro play than casual. In s3 TSM used the "global" comp which resulted in every single champion involved being nerfed. Then we've seen Galio Ashe Nocturne RekSai Shen Ryze TahmKench all define their respective roles due to their global/massive range teleport/CC ultimates. The ability to go from A to Z and skip everything in between with candy on top is just too valuable

LegitBusinessmanAug 2, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Maple Nectar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LMAP0HEU,comment-id=001a,timestamp=2018-08-02T00:54:22.092+0000)

We're explicitly not exploring damage at this point unless you count reducing some cds (cast spells more, deal more damage over time). The current direction is giving them defensive properties unique to the champion - but we'll see what we're able to land.

That's such awesome news :[

Thank you for communicating with us.

Support PositionAug 2, 20183 votes

We need BASE stats BUFFED riot. NO cds. NO damage increases. STATS.

Also Armour and MR algorithms need to be REWORKED completely from the ground. 70% doesn't do 70%. It does about 7% of the total physical/magical damage reduced.

Time to do some real work. No more talking. [slayer-jinx-unamused]

Glory to GodAug 2, 20187 votes

reducing some cds

A-are you guys sure you want to do that? CDR seems to be EVERYWHERE in the game right now and it's hard to think of a build which doesn't include that stat.

Weiner the PoohJul 31, 201812 votes

The second I read riot is planning on buffing tanks I immediately thought they’re going to just buff their damage, I hope I’m wrong but I highly doubt I am. Riot has proved repeatedly that they think damage on everything is the way to go. But hopefully I’m wrong and they increase their cc/resistances and make them better front lines.

Spirt Gun YuskeJul 31, 201811 votes

Then they're just bruisers with insane health

Shukr4nJul 31, 20189 votes

Well cobsidering there are many requests about battle royal at this point blame xommunity not riot

ChuShoeAug 1, 20189 votes

FoRtNiTe Of LeGeNdS

MorganFreemanBotJul 31, 20188 votes

Yeah, and that's not a problem.

The biggest problem with tank viability has always been their lack of damage. Their lack of damage makes them vulnerable in the jungle and unable to carry without cooperation. Their lack of damage makes their solo lane viability totter on the edge of a knife, aside from a few very specific hard counters.

The good thing with tank damage is that it they're tanks; they don't want damage. Giving them higher bases but poor scaling means that they can hold their own and even win (gasp!) early game, or punish super cocky squishies mid game (say it aint so!), while not being a real damage threat.

There's nothing wrong with a fed level 13 Nautilus being able to kill a 'normal' level 11 Ziggs if he hooks them. That's not damage creep, it's just needed damage potential for viability.

VekknaJul 31, 20183 votes

You're only describing support tanks. Look at the AP ratios and bases on Blitz, Mao, Malphite, and Gragas. In fact, if you compare Gragas and Lissandra, their numbers are almost identical. Give them the same build, and Gragas wins the duel. That doesn't really jive with what you're saying.

REDNITEAug 1, 20183 votes

Malphite LACK OF DAMAGE? DO YOU EVER BEEN HIT BY HIS R ? DrMundo HE STANDS YOU DIE ? Rammus LACK OF DAMAGE ANYONE CAN SOLO KILL RAM NO PROBLEM BROS Darius ???????????????????v Urgot I DONT KNOW WHAT DAMAGE YOU TALKING ABOUT Volibear forgot about that wild bear

GesterrAug 1, 20187 votes

4 of those are juggernauts not tanks and are supposed to do a lot of damage.

ISLAMICWARRIOR99Aug 1, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, and that's not a problem.

The biggest problem with tank viability has always been their lack of damage. Their lack of damage makes them vulnerable in the jungle and unable to carry without cooperation. Their lack of damage makes their solo lane viability totter on the edge of a knife, aside from a few very specific hard counters.

The good thing with tank damage is that it they're tanks; they don't want damage. Giving them higher bases but poor scaling means that they can hold their own and even win (gasp!) early game, or punish super cocky squishies mid game (say it aint so!), while not being a real damage threat.

There's nothing wrong with a fed level 13 Nautilus being able to kill a 'normal' level 11 Ziggs if he hooks them. That's not damage creep, it's just needed damage potential for viability.

Lmao what, a tank will 1v1 any mage marksman or assassin if on even remotely even gold. Tanks do a fuck ton of damage and have loads of utility its absurd. Whenever tanks are strong the game isn't even worth playing because every game is decided by who has more of them.

EvilUnicornLordJul 31, 20185 votes

Tanks shouldn't feel like they're armed with wet spaghetti but they also shouldn't compete with Saitama.

ISLAMICWARRIOR99Aug 1, 20184 votes

Riot needs to understand tanky champs already do wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy to much fucking damage. Currently garen is the best fucking assassin in the game. He'll 100-0 you faster than zed and facetank your entire team while he does it.

PB4UAMEAug 1, 20189 votes

Garen is a melee carry.

So is Darius. . . and every other juggernaut except for Urgot.

ISLAMICWARRIOR99Aug 1, 20184 votes

{quoted}

Garen is a melee carry.

So is Darius. . . and every other juggernaut except for Urgot.

Dar has to get stacks and land his q, fiora has to hit vitals, illaoi early has to hit abilities, garen just has to press q click on the enemy and press r once they're like half hp to kill a marsman or a mage. He also has better sustain and is more tanky than any other juggernaut with less counterplay.

AstutelyJul 31, 20183 votes

Unpopular opinion: I think tanks are strong against assassin teams. Which, happens frequently. I can see more instances tanks could be picked. The lack of play-rate seems like a "quality of life" issue. It doesn't seem like they're always nonviable.

FixHealsRemoveGWJul 31, 20182 votes

It used to be common sense that a balanced team with a tank is good against a squishy assassins team. it doesn't even matter how shitty that tank is. I guess this ancient wisdom is simply lost to some players because they are too busy telling each other how right they are. Or maybe there are serious misconception about what it means to carry as a tank. Probably a mix of both. I have no problem winning as a tank just by surviving the laning phase and walking into the enemy team while missing all my spells in this current meta. xD