Juggernauts and Skirmishers have no roamers?

Moody P··3 votes·1,705 views

Tanks have Tahm (I think Galio still counts) Marksmen have Quinn Assassins have Talon Mages have Taliyah and TF and Aurelion Supports have Bard Divers have most of the class

Juggernauts and Skirmishers are the only 2 classes left without one

Where is my map crossing Juggernaut?

27 Comments

DuskDaUmbreon4 votes

Kled? He could be classified as a skirmisher.

Also, "Roaming" and "Juggernaut" are basically polar opposites. Any that could roam wouldn't be a juggernaut anymore.

Moody P2 votes

I thought kled was a diver tank assassin

why? we're fine with mages getting to do it and they're not generally regarded for their mobility, and Tahm is very close to a juggernaut because of his pure immobility when he's actually IN the fight. an actual juggernaut having roaming potential wouldn't be particularly unfair if they become a juggernaut when they're in the thick of things

DuskDaUmbreon2 votes

Some mages get to roam because being immobile isn't a defining trait of mages, while it's literally part of the definition of a juggernaut. A juggernaut that's mobile is a diver, not a juggernaut. The champion physically ceases to be a juggernaut when they have any kind of relevant mobility.

You might as well try to make an assassin that's completely immobile - it's physically impossible, because "mobile" is a defining characteristic of assassins.

Tahm is still more of a tank because of his utility. His damage is (apparently) relatively low, and he's based around utility, durability, and CC.

Now, no, it wouldn't be unfair. But, again, they'd cease to be a juggernaut. Unless we really stretch the definition of juggernaut to include Singed, who's relatively decent at roaming, but really isn't designed for it.

Moody P1 votes

they're not diving though, just arriving to a fight. if they can't actually leapfrog onto a squishy like most divers can I wouldn't call that a diver

Evelyn is pretty immobile she doesn't have much of a gap closer to actually get on people, obviously she compensates with stealth

maybe Volibear could be a roaming juggernaut

Critmaster Garen2 votes

{quoted}

Some mages get to roam because being immobile isn't a defining trait of mages, while it's literally part of the definition of a juggernaut. A juggernaut that's mobile is a diver, not a juggernaut. The champion physically ceases to be a juggernaut when they have any kind of relevant mobility.

You might as well try to make an assassin that's completely immobile - it's physically impossible, because "mobile" is a defining characteristic of assassins.

Tahm is still more of a tank because of his utility. His damage is (apparently) relatively low, and he's based around utility, durability, and CC.

Now, no, it wouldn't be unfair. But, again, they'd cease to be a juggernaut. Unless we really stretch the definition of juggernaut to include Singed, who's relatively decent at roaming, but really isn't designed for it.

cross map roaming is a bit different from being a mobile fighter.

in principle it could be possible for a juggernaut to be slow in fights, but have an ultimate like Taliyah TwistedFate or AurelionSol

especially in Taliyah case, her ult cant be activated while in combat, and its interrupted when shes taking damage. so its not "in combat mobility" in that sense. such an ultimate could make just as much sense on a juggernaut.

plus, according to riots design standarts, champion ultimates can on occation break the rules of a class.

Olaf for example becomes unkitable during his ult despite being a juggernaut.

Shyvana ultimate is also a gap closer despite the fact that juggernauts usually dont have those. (unless its a micro dash like aatrox e or illaoi w)

i dont know what a cross map roaming ult on a juggernaut would look like, but in principle it should be possible.

Moody P1 votes

some people hate juggernauts and he is one of them

FireDrizzle1 votes

I dont regard Shyvana as a juggernaut because the ult. A real juggernaut is kited by Velkoz if flash or ghost isnt used, that may be a weird benchmark but [zombie-brand-clap]

Sukishoo2 votes

Juggernauts are meant to be slow and immobile, so why would they have someone who can roam? Kind of defeats the purpose.

Moody P1 votes

if "immobile" mages get to do it 3 times then 1 juggernaut getting to do it wouldn't be a crime

Hammermancer2 votes

Oh yeah, a hypermobile version of darius right? good idea

lets get that right here to the idea box

https://i.imgflip.com/2trvsy.jpg

Done252 votes

Sion.

Hammermancer2 votes

Olaf Garen Volibear Skarner

item 3742

TheRealistKirby1 votes

Most juggernauts and skirmishers take teleport to lane anyway, since they're usually top. There's your roam

Abibyama II1 votes

They'll come when JoJo part 8 gets animated

The23rdGamer1 votes

It could possibly also be due to some items that they could build giving them a decent amount of mobility, although not map-crossing abilities like you're mentioning (item 3742 item 3800). A lot of them also take summoner 12 or occasionally summoner 6 to supplement their mobility needs.

It's probably also an issue of balance and definition though, considering Juggernauts are generally meant to be relatively immobile outside of some minor things like MS boosts (or slowing their enemy or something @Nasus)

It would be interesting to see what ideas you might have though. Did you have any particular ideas in mind? Should Mordekaiser be able to ride the dragon around the map or something? etc etc.

Phieldworker1 votes

Skarner gets around pretty quickly if you ask me. And truthfully juggernauts shouldn’t be quick. Their inherent weakness is they can’t move around fast because they are a mix of damage and tank (Illaoi, Darius, Skarner). They wouldn’t have a weakness if they had gap closers or abilities that can get them from point A to point B too fast.

HyVee1 votes

Skarner ???

Moody P1 votes

skarner is a diver

Jamenawerl1 votes

He is classified as one but he plays more like a jugger. He trades mobility for "raidbossing" potential.

Sir Saltarin1 votes

But he was reworked with the juggernaut patch

Honestly there's always confusion about which class are most bruiser-like champs.

Moody P1 votes

If the champ is cool it's a juggernaut

There. Now it's easy to understand

Sir Saltarin1 votes

Are you implying that Skarner isn't cool ?

Heretic

HyVee1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LLWyjb4v,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2019-02-15T14:46:53.574+0000)

skarner is a diver

oooo makes sense

Serika Zero1 votes

So basically you just want pre ult rework rek sai

Jamenawerl1 votes

inb4 reksai is a diver

Valor Bot1 votes

She is though...

Jamenawerl1 votes

Skirmishers have Kayn and if you want to stretch it, Yi too.

Then you have a lot of half assed roaming juggers like Udyr, Voli, Shyvana and Singed.

I'd say Tahm is closer to a juggernaut than to a tank tho.

I think part of the problem is that roaming tools consume a lot of the power budget, and juggers already need both high damage and high defenses to be considered juggers, which further reduces the power budget available to get ganking tools that make roaming effective in the first place. So if Rito decided to make a roaming jugger chances are it would end up as a strange design without synergies (i.e. it wouldnt work) or in the best case scenario classified as a specialist or diver.

Edit: Some bruisers with good roaming potential are close to juggernaut playstyle like Skarner, Warwick and Hecarim.

TL;DR: Other classes already have trademark mobility or cc to make a roaming playstyle effective without the need of further supporting it.

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