We need to help ADCS

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I don't know, all bruisers are broken right now anyway, look at garen with 15% pick rate and 54% win rate mundo nerf did jackshit bruisers are disgusting

part of the problem is conqueror and grasp

doesn't change what i said look at history and tell me when lee sin didn't get nerfed dude had 7 seasons of nerfs because he legit had 30% pick rate every single time except now

Its just odd to me why the boards dont talk about that.

Prevalent in pro play because, sure, they're high skill cap but also because people would actually build real comps around them and communicate with each other while playing them. You're just incapable of reading because I know I've proven you wrong enough that you had an entire thread deleted to avoid people seeing that I proved you wrong. .-. When you were adamant that Varus was "fine" and "viable" just because Uzi was playing him in professional play. My argument then is the same as it is now; professional play and soloqueue are not comparable and the two should honestly have separate balance patches. What is good in Professional Play will not be good in soloqueue 100% of the time. Professional teams are organized, make real goddamn team comps, have communication with their team(who they live with, train with, and play with EXTREMELY REGULARLY), and generally value different things in champions that people in soloqueue do.

And Yasuo is a shitty example and you know it. He gets nerfed over and over again because people flat out don't like him and he's got an extremely toxic kit. He could have a 0% winrate and I'd still want the bastard nerfed because he's obnoxious and unfun to play against.

A better example is, again, Ryze, who had, at one point, a 40% WR but still received a nerf because, guess what? He was still too good in pro play. His ult and the fact that he had a team around him that could specifically enable him meant that he was far too good in a professional, organized team setting. Because they could play around him and make good use of his ultimate.

And Caitlyn never invalidated half the roster. I played against her regularly during her Flavor of the Month time frame and regularly destroyed her and this is on a variety of ADC's. It was only after she got needlessly nerfed into the ground, as well, that botlane became about Hyper Carries, which everyone on the board had more issue with. What an idea; you nerf one of the best lane bullies who generally does fall off, and the people she countered get insurmountably stronger. I miss the days where she was actually viable and good because she did a fair job of checks and balances bot lane.

And I still disagree with them refusing to buff her due to feeling she'd "oppress botlane diversity" or whatever malarky while ignoring just how oppressive duo mages botlane are.

And ADC wasn't broken for a year; Supports were and this has been supported by several people across the entire board. ADCs, however, were never broken. And furthermore, this is completely taking what I said out of context and not even addressing what I did say which is that midlane/toplane/jungle have no right to say what should be played botlane considering they don't even play the role.

Someone else said it and I have to agree; all you do is cherry pick for whatever suits your agenda. Even worse, however, is that you do it under the guise that you're an ADC main but your account hasn't seen play for ages and the champs that you played on it, according to OP.GG, weren't even ADCs. How about you stop lying and cherry picking and manipulating to push your Anti-ADC agenda and come clean?

I mean exactly what I said. She didn't deserve nerfs. She was basically just Ezreal; sitting at a 50% winrate with an insane play rate because she's accessible and enjoyable. .-. She never broached over a 50% winrate unless you mained her, in which case you were putting in the effort to learn her mechanics and deserved to have a higher winrate; you put in the work for her.

yea and qtpie said she was disgusting xd i literally remember it was the beyondtherift with cowsep after his ban in korea

nice cherry pick of topics, i'm done after this post since you just want to fit your narrative and don't take all facts into account.

bruisers were out shined because they didn't have a keystone, what did you expect them to do? they didn't fit in the game, kinda like crit marksman now.

IE change was bad combined with all the other changes because you took all this power away and gave them nothing to crit marksman compensate. You made the build more expensive by ~800 gold, do ~15% less damage and then hit base stats on squishy champs who blow up anyway, then nerf shielding to protect them in 8.12. How are champs like Cait, tristana, Ashe, etc. supposed to get to late game?

You can do the same thing to any other role and people will be upset when you can't champs anywhere in the game.

ill just repeat this cause you ignored it: Its such a drastic swing in power it should of been taken in smaller steps especially mid season when teams are preparing for worlds. The damage reduction alone in IE could of been enough to bring them in line without anything else being done. If that wasn't enough the zeal item cost should of been changed. Still not enough then hit the base stats. As you know they did all at once and threw out the class, which is why people are so upset. Why bruisers/mages are so common is they have kits designed to kill marksman or squishy champs. Its not like we can take these champs to another role like everyone who has come into bot lane recently.

Did crit ADC need nerfs? Yes Did riot go about it the wrong way? Yes, too much taken away and minimal given back now the champs cant be played anywhere

And that's why Kennen has a 57% wr, Wukong a 55%, Veigar a 54%, and Swain and Xerath a 53%. Because balance, right?

If they'd actually address these champions in botlane and balance them so they aren't completely over bearing and oppressive, sure, the variety is nice, its a nice option for the people who get Autofilled bot lane and don't know ADCs. But these picks having outlandish winrates over the native residents of botlane is ridiculous.

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i think that bruisers and mage going bot are part and parcel of living in a balanced game

if that was true then all adcs would be going top and mid while still being viable. that would be a truly balanced game. imagine being able to laneswap on a whim if you didnt like facing a certain champ and there being no negative consequences.