MYTH: Kassadin is a late game hypercarry

LaughingStapler·Nov 8, 2016·20 votes·7,925 views

I've been fed on Kass so many times and yet a Viktor, Cass, Ori, Syndra etc. does way more to win/control teamfights while also having safer waveclear/laning.

Kassadin doesn't scale badly but his damage is pathetic so unless your team has others to DPS and you can just disrupt the backline or peel, he's weak. I think people remember back when Kass had an 80% AP ratio on R and a longer range. He was definitely a hypercarry then but he only has a 20% base AP ratio and a small mana ratio. Right now, he's a snowball and cleanup champion, not a true carry.

The reason I'm making this thread is because I was misled with the whole "lategame Kassadin" hype and yet I've been full build many times with RoA LB Sorcs VS Rabadon's & Zhonya's only to find other champs doing infinitely more damage and over a larger area. If your team needs damage, you'd definitely not want to pick Kassadin. If you have a Jinx ADC, Amumu JG and Darius Top, go for it. On the other hand, if it's Shen top, Ivern JG and Ezreal ADC, you're going to be doing way too little late game.

I know you guys will downvote and say I'm wrong but prove it to me. Show me games where a Kass on equal gold is actually outcarrying a Viktor, Annie or Brand late game for example. I just don't see it. I know he USED to be that champion but he's just not now. His roaming is good though and he snowballs very well. Although, there are many roaming champions who do it a little better due to being able to waveclear quickly first. TF and Taliyah come to mind.

55 Comments

NiyumiNov 8, 20164 votes

Kassadin... weak damage? What? Are you blind, or just bad?

Step 1: Build ROA + Sorc Boots + Lichbane + Sterak's + Abyssal + Zhonya's.

Step 2: Max W first, then E, then Q.

Step 3: Laugh as you instagib their ADC, and are able to fight tanks somewhat effectively.

Kass isn't team-wide damage, he's meant to blow people up, like any other assassin.

astralwitNov 8, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Kassadin... weak damage? What? Are you blind, or just bad?

Step 1: Build ROA + Sorc Boots + Lichbane + Sterak's + Abyssal + Zhonya's.

Step 2: Max W first, then E, then Q.

Step 3: Laugh as you instagib their ADC, and are able to fight tanks somewhat effectively.

Kass isn't team-wide damage, he's meant to blow people up, like any other assassin.

I've got to admit I've never tried that build (Sterak's?!) or max order. Unless it's an AD champion, I max Q followed by E. I'm skeptical but I'll test it.

NiyumiNov 8, 20161 votes

Kass's W is his auto plus AP damage, plus Lichbane. Lichbane is a % of base AD + a % of AP. If you increase your base AD, both your auto and the Lichbane hit harder, so W hits like a truck.

As for maxing things... you're an assassin. You jump on people, blow them up, and move on. You don't poke people down all day. If you're in lane, you just wait for CDs to be down, jump on them and blow your combo, and then walk away and go back to farming until they blow stuff again, and then you kill them. Once you get your Lichbane, your W will hit for a ton of damage.

Need Gold 4 TentNov 8, 20162 votes

lichbane works regardless of what skill you level. you just need 1 rank in W to use the "sheen AA reset proc" that these type of champs have. Unless its cd is low enough to use more than once in one trade, i'd say ranking up Q sounds like a better deal.

BakedLotionNov 8, 20167 votes

{quoted}

Kassadin... weak damage? What? Are you blind, or just bad?

Step 1: Build ROA + Sorc Boots + Lichbane + Sterak's + Abyssal + Zhonya's.

Step 2: Max W first, then E, then Q.

Step 3: Laugh as you instagib their ADC, and are able to fight tanks somewhat effectively.

Kass isn't team-wide damage, he's meant to blow people up, like any other assassin.

why would you max w first if Q gives more dmg per level, and E is aoe with the same dmg per level? E is on a lower cooldown at all ranks, and Q is more damage/shield/poke You max Q first always. More poke, bigger shield, better trades. You won't be autoing anyone in lane pre 6. Even if it's an AD matchup you should be maxing Q

NiyumiNov 8, 20161 votes

If you're not autoing people in lane, then you're not playing Kassadin properly.

And, as I said above, you are an ASSASSIN, not a pokey mage. You go in and blow people up, you don't sit back and poke them with your weak Q damage.

Q is flat damage, W is AD + W + Sheen -- Your W does far, far more damage.

astralwitNov 8, 20164 votes

{quoted}

If you're not autoing people in lane, then you're not playing Kassadin properly.

And, as I said above, you are an ASSASSIN, not a pokey mage. You go in and blow people up, you don't sit back and poke them with your weak Q damage.

Q is flat damage, W is AD + W + Sheen -- Your W does far, far more damage.

Yes, but level 2 Q is 30 more damage while another level in W is only 25 and you can use Q basically on CD without going melee range. How does W do more damage? It's not like the AP ratio changes with level.

NiyumiNov 8, 20161 votes

Again, add in your AD and Sheen damage, W hits much, much harder.

astralwitNov 8, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Again, add in your AD and Sheen damage, W hits much, much harder.

Why would you ever max it first though?

CryoBeatNov 8, 20163 votes

Mana restoration. There is no other reason than mana restoration or a reliance on bursting with Sheen. He words it badly, since levelling it doesn't change the ap ratio, but R + W + Sheen effect will burst very quickly, if that makes sense. In mana-centric builds (such as my own), the mana restoration is valued, and is used to keep high-charged ults up for damage and mobility. Otherwise, for your typical AP kassadin, please max Q. x)

PermabannedGarenNov 8, 20166 votes

{quoted}

Again, add in your AD and Sheen damage, W hits much, much harder.

The damage your AD and sheen does isn't increased when maxing W, and W's cooldown doesn't decrease when you level it either. The AD and sheen damage is completely irrelevant. The only things increased are the magic damage of the W itself and the mana gain.

Q gets more magic damage per level than W and a bigger shield. It's the better max. Any argument against this is wrong and stupid.

BakedLotionNov 8, 20161 votes

{quoted}

If you're not autoing people in lane, then you're not playing Kassadin properly.

And, as I said above, you are an ASSASSIN, not a pokey mage. You go in and blow people up, you don't sit back and poke them with your weak Q damage.

Q is flat damage, W is AD + W + Sheen -- Your W does far, far more damage.

how do u auto a ranged champion in lane? LMFAOOO your bronze is showing

NiyumiNov 8, 20161 votes

By taking opportunities and capitalizing on enemy mistakes. If you can't do that, then who's the bronzie here? ^^

Looking at your scores though... you must have been carried pretty hard, so I don't expect you to know that.

Play some more mechanically intense champs (you'll learn how to play in lane better), and play more champs in general so you can learn how their kits work so you can abuse their CDs and kits -- do that and, who knows? Maybe one day you'll be able to effectively play Kass. ^^

BakedLotionNov 8, 20161 votes

{quoted}

By taking opportunities and capitalizing on enemy mistakes. If you can't do that, then who's the bronzie here? ^^

Looking at your scores though... you must have been carried pretty hard, so I don't expect you to know that.

Play some more mechanically intense champs (you'll learn how to play in lane better), and play more champs in general so you can learn how their kits work so you can abuse their CDs and kits -- do that and, who knows? Maybe one day you'll be able to effectively play Kass. ^^

lol? You're gold 4 with almost 2,000 ranked games. How bad can you be? no ranged champion with a brain is going to ever let you auto them. And what scores? They're all better than yours by miles. LMFAOOO

Tells people to play more mechanically challenging champions -plays blitz, jhin, teemo, poppy

???

NiyumiNov 9, 20161 votes

Aww, someone's getting upset because I called them bad.

Anyway, if you're against a ranged champ, chances are they're goinna auto you while you try to farm, yeah? So, you wait for your E to charge up, bait them into getting close enough to auto you, then you pop E, auto then reset with W, and Q as you walk away. If you went in when their CDs were down, they can't retaliate, and you win the trade. Once you hit 6, you can just skip the baiting and jump on them as soon as their CDs are down, then walk away.

It's not about them not having a brain, it's about you using yours better.

And, while my winrate is lower, my scores each game are a lot better outside of your norms against lower rank players. My averages are much higher than yours too. Plus, having 4,000 games (probably a lot more than you), I've learned a lot of little things about this game, and I'm able to play against challengers and come out of lane 15/2, I can go against diamonds, and all that. Rank isn't indicative of skill, it just shows how lucky you got with matching, or that you had someone to queue with that wasn't terrible.

You play Kat and MF a lot. Neither is hard, and neither really requires much skill. Go play champs like Ori, Bard, Taliyah, Azir, etc., and learn to lane while dealing with all their mechanics. Once you can do that, you can go back and play the easier champs and entirely dominate lane since you don't have to pay attention to anything but the map and your enemy laner. Kassadin is not weak, as this thread suggests; people just don't know how to use him, or how to abuse the enemy's kit.

BakedLotionNov 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Aww, someone's getting upset because I called them bad.

Anyway, if you're against a ranged champ, chances are they're goinna auto you while you try to farm, yeah? So, you wait for your E to charge up, bait them into getting close enough to auto you, then you pop E, auto then reset with W, and Q as you walk away. If you went in when their CDs were down, they can't retaliate, and you win the trade. Once you hit 6, you can just skip the baiting and jump on them as soon as their CDs are down, then walk away.

It's not about them not having a brain, it's about you using yours better.

And, while my winrate is lower, my scores each game are a lot better outside of your norms against lower rank players. My averages are much higher than yours too. Plus, having 4,000 games (probably a lot more than you), I've learned a lot of little things about this game, and I'm able to play against challengers and come out of lane 15/2, I can go against diamonds, and all that. Rank isn't indicative of skill, it just shows how lucky you got with matching, or that you had someone to queue with that wasn't terrible.

You play Kat and MF a lot. Neither is hard, and neither really requires much skill. Go play champs like Ori, Bard, Taliyah, Azir, etc., and learn to lane while dealing with all their mechanics. Once you can do that, you can go back and play the easier champs and entirely dominate lane since you don't have to pay attention to anything but the map and your enemy laner. Kassadin is not weak, as this thread suggests; people just don't know how to use him, or how to abuse the enemy's kit.

I play whatever I want in normals. Are you really comparing your skill to mine through normals? People don't play their mains and are usually fucking around. Do you even look at ranked stats? I'm a completely solo queue player. What are you saying about getting carried? I have 2.6k wins in normals, so no, you don't have more games than me.

And what are you saying about getting matched with Challengers and Diamonds? The highest I see is Gold 5 LOOOL Have a look! Woah! nice! http://imgur.com/a/Md916 <--- Click it. List goes further and further

Hey look I do play Orianna and Bard. In fact, I play almost every single champion in the game. :) http://imgur.com/a/PQyHR

If you used your brain, you wouldn't be stuck in gold for 2000 games. People in gold barely know how to play the game. Of course you can auto them. You would be in challenger if your team mates wouldn't hold you back right?

Again, you played 2000 games. Don't tell me you got unlucky 2000 times. Stop, you're embarrassing yourself. And quite frankly, no one agrees with your little W max build

/done bye

astralwitNov 9, 20162 votes

{quoted}

By taking opportunities and capitalizing on enemy mistakes. If you can't do that, then who's the bronzie here? ^^

Looking at your scores though... you must have been carried pretty hard, so I don't expect you to know that.

Play some more mechanically intense champs (you'll learn how to play in lane better), and play more champs in general so you can learn how their kits work so you can abuse their CDs and kits -- do that and, who knows? Maybe one day you'll be able to effectively play Kass. ^^

It's a sidepoint but I just want to say that I hate this type of reasoning based on KDA or winrate. It really means very little unless you're playing identical champions and comps. at an identical ELO. For example, a Silver player may have tremendous KDAs and a Diamond player only mediocre ones but that doesn't make the Silver player better suddenly, even if his winrates are good. They are playing at completely different levels and the two can't be compared directly. If you put that Silver player in Diamond games consistently, chances are that he'll usually be a burden even if he has a few good games. He also wouldn't be likely to maintain either his winrate or KDAs. Likewise, if I play novices at chess and win in 15-20 moves every game but a GM facing GM opponents wins far less and requires 40+ moves, I'm not suddenly better at chess than GMs.

As far as beating Challengers or Diamonds in normal games, that's just completely meaningless. Normal games aren't a competitive format. Many people don't try very hard in them, experiment, try very risky things just for fun, play new champions etc. You can't use a noncompetitive format to suggest you have some special undiscovered skill. That would be like you telling someone you're racing them while they're walking with headphones on and then claiming victory when you reached the destination first after sprinting. Both players have to take it seriously.

The format for that is ranked play and it's quite indicative of skill as long as it's not a guy playing primarily premade. I know this because I have many accounts and they all end-up in about the same place if I play enough. The first season I played, I had two accounts and they both got Silver. My second account was because I thought I was in ELO hell at Silver 5 but after I got only a bit better, I realized it wasn't the teams holding me back being the main issue. The next season, three all in Gold. Now, I had two in Plat. but if I don't play my best champions, I get only mid Gold. My experience and the stats. back this up. This season was less accurate than most due to combining large premades with solo players, more boosted players due to DQ etc. but overall it's still fairly reflective. You certainly 100% won't be in Gold if you belong in Diamond and have played at least 200 games. You may have negative variance and perhaps you'd get Plat 5 when you're G3 if you played more but two tiers doesn't happen over reasonable samples.

This is another reason why these normals comparisons are so silly and meaningless, a Diamond player isn't Diamond on every champion they play. They've got probably 3-5 champions on which they're very skilled and that's what's helping them climb. If they randomly play Ziggs mid or something and haven't studied or practiced it much, they'll probably perform like low Plat players or worse.

BakedLotionNov 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

It's a sidepoint but I just want to say that I hate this type of reasoning based on KDA or winrate. It really means very little unless you're playing identical champions and comps. at an identical ELO. For example, a Silver player may have tremendous KDAs and a Diamond player only mediocre ones but that doesn't make the Silver player better suddenly, even if his winrates are good. They are playing at completely different levels and the two can't be compared directly. If you put that Silver player in Diamond games consistently, chances are that he'll usually be a burden even if he has a few good games. He also wouldn't be likely to maintain either his winrate or KDAs. Likewise, if I play novices at chess and win in 15-20 moves every game but a GM facing GM opponents wins far less and requires 40+ moves, I'm not suddenly better at chess than GMs.

As far as beating Challengers or Diamonds in normal games, that's just completely meaningless. Normal games aren't a competitive format. Many people don't try very hard in them, experiment, try very risky things just for fun, play new champions etc. You can't use a noncompetitive format to suggest you have some special undiscovered skill. That would be like you telling someone you're racing them while they're walking with headphones on and then claiming victory when you reached the destination first after sprinting. Both players have to take it seriously.

The format for that is ranked play and it's quite indicative of skill as long as it's not a guy playing primarily premade. I know this because I have many accounts and they all end-up in about the same place if I play enough. The first season I played, I had two accounts and they both got Silver. My second account was because I thought I was in ELO hell at Silver 5 but after I got only a bit better, I realized it wasn't the teams holding me back being the main issue. The next season, three all in Gold. Now, I had two in Plat. but if I don't play my best champions, I get only mid Gold. My experience and the stats. back this up. This season was less accurate than most due to combining large premades with solo players, more boosted players due to DQ etc. but overall it's still fairly reflective. You certainly 100% won't be in Gold if you belong in Diamond and have played at least 200 games. You may have negative variance and perhaps you'd get Plat 5 when you're G3 if you played more but two tiers doesn't happen over reasonable samples.

This is another reason why these normals comparisons are so silly and meaningless, a Diamond player isn't Diamond on every champion they play. They've got probably 3-5 champions on which they're very skilled and that's what's helping them climb. If they randomly play Ziggs mid or something and haven't studied or practiced it much, they'll probably perform like low Plat players or worse.

Hes gold 4 with 2000 games (how do u have time for that many games in a year) lol. Ignore him. Hes also spewing all bullshit bc his avg opponent is low bronze in all queues lol Idk why he said his kda is better than mine because my ranked kda hovers over 4.8 consistently while his kda is low as fuck. But i guess hes comparing based on norms where i basically troll

BârdNov 8, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Kassadin... weak damage? What? Are you blind, or just bad?

Step 1: Build ROA + Sorc Boots + Lichbane + Sterak's + Abyssal + Zhonya's.

Step 2: Max W first, then E, then Q.

Step 3: Laugh as you instagib their ADC, and are able to fight tanks somewhat effectively.

Kass isn't team-wide damage, he's meant to blow people up, like any other assassin.

Don't build
Max W last. Either Q first for trading or E first for level 6 roaming.
You can't fight most tanks. You can, however, kite them.

XPhantomBusterXNov 8, 20164 votes

I completely agree with you. Kass doesn't do as much damage as other hyper carries. I feel like there are champs who are always better than Kass. Riot destroyed Kass. Riot nerfed all of Kass's abilities. I played Kass a while back. He felt really weak. I would combo their feeding ADC, and the ADC would some how live. I agree with you completely. Kass really does need a buff

Crash ChannelNov 8, 20162 votes

I wonder if its time to start taking kass to different roles. like an AP brawler in top

NeoBrawlerNov 8, 20162 votes

Guys, you max E first because you will never go in without it and the slow help for keeping them there next to you.

CryoBeatNov 8, 20162 votes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJOebp-tD7E

Gonna leave my build for Kassadin there, purely because this build IS a lategame powerhouse; with high damage and durability to survive in fights to deal even more damage, and enough mana to promote mobility. I have even more of this build on my channel. ...Just putting it out there. I find Kass has plenty of damage even with little-to-no AP. ;)

bad arcade kittyNov 8, 20161 votes

kass never was a late game hyper carry?

Need Gold 4 TentNov 8, 20162 votes

Old kass... rush DFG, land Q 2 times in land = kill. That was anytime after post 6. After Zhonya's Ring (basically a very OP deathcap+hourglass in 1 item), you can do that from full hp on a squishy without MR. Full build: Unless that Ashe built a both FoN AND a Banshee's, combo+ignite = dead, coz void staff.

And the thing is, because of that ult, he just zhonya's after he kills your carry and poof, gone. 5 seconds later, "your squishy AP carry has been slain". Don't forget, mobility was extremely valuable in the old meta, and Kass was top on the list.

bad arcade kittyNov 8, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sir HaxaIot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=L5TNwRLx,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2016-11-08T04:27:42.999+0000)

Old kass... rush DFG, land Q 2 times in land = kill. That was anytime after post 6. After Zhonya's Ring (basically a very OP deathcap+hourglass in 1 item), you can do that from full hp on a squishy without MR. Full build: Unless that Ashe built a both FoN AND a Banshee's, combo+ignite = dead, coz void staff.

And the thing is, because of that ult, he just zhonya's after he kills your carry and poof, gone. 5 seconds later, "your squishy AP carry has been slain". Don't forget, mobility was extremely valuable in the old meta, and Kass was top on the list.

yes, i remember him

but iirc he didn't scale that well into the late game and was the strongest around 30 minute or so, i may be mistaken though

Need Gold 4 TentNov 8, 20162 votes

lategame because he WILL get to your carries and he WILL kill them safely, which means he's effectively made the fight 4v5 or 3v5 before it even started. Read what I said about "full build". Kass doesn't win by eventually killing everyone like Yi did. He instantly removes 1 or 2 people from the fight without dying himself, that's how he's a "hypercarry". And anything with less than 2 MR items gets 1 shot by the full combo.

DengedenNov 8, 20161 votes

Well, if he builds Tear, his damage probably stacks up sufficiently to blow up squishies and lay down some dece AoE late game. But playing him as an anti-mage bruiser is more reliable.

Sagan ForeverNov 8, 20161 votes

He is an anti carry, he wins if he kills there carry before they do damage.

Critmaster GarenNov 8, 20161 votes

fact:

youre judging this based on kassadins current state when half his kit was removed, and he was nerfed to shit, to prevent him from being batshit overpowered thanks to his brokenass ult.

whenever kassadins kit has the numbers to back it up and hes not complete trash, he usually turns into a hypercarry, due to how easy it is for him to snowball by getting picks around the map, and how hard he is to pin down himself.

bad arcade kittyNov 8, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=L5TNwRLx,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2016-11-08T04:58:08.775+0000)

fact:

youre judging this based on kassadins current state when half his kit was removed, and he was nerfed to shit, to prevent him to be batshit overpowered thanks to his brokenass ult.

whenever kassadins kit has the numbers to back it up and hes not complete trash, he usually turns into a hypercarry, due to how easy it is for him to snowball by getting picks around the map.

snowballing and being a hyper carry are different things the first one doesn't even need any damage scaling with items (see dota) and the second one needs it

Critmaster GarenNov 8, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=bad arcade kitty,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=L5TNwRLx,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2016-11-08T05:02:06.303+0000)

snowballing and being a hyper carry are different things the first one doesn't even need any damage scaling with items (see dota) and the second one needs it

think about how they kept nerfing azir over and over and over because the dude just didnt stop being overpowered at high levels of play, to the point where he isnt relevant at all anymore.

kassadin was just like that, at ALL levels of play.

bad arcade kittyNov 8, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=L5TNwRLx,comment-id=000800000000,timestamp=2016-11-08T05:02:52.507+0000)

think about how they kept nerfing azir over and over and over because the dude just didnt stop being overpowered at high levels of play, to the point where he isnt relevant at all anymore.

kassadin was just like that, at ALL levels of play.

funnily i know the old kass better than azir who was changed while i didn't play

kass wasn't a late game hyper carry like say vayne or veigar

Critmaster GarenNov 8, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=bad arcade kitty,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=L5TNwRLx,comment-id=0008000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-08T05:05:58.318+0000)

funnily i know the old kass better than azir who was changed while i didn't play

kass wasn't a late game hyper carry like say vayne or veigar

not in a sense of raw damge, but he kept carrying games mid and lategame by getting picks left and right.

as soon as someone was at around 50% hp, he would swoop in over a wall, pick him off and then flash back out before you could kill him. he would repeat doing that until he won the game.

the thing is, that he was also a bruiser assassin at the time. building beefy enough to survive the time until his ult was back up to get out again. and since he used to assassinate people from range with his q it gave him additional time and safety.

if you ever were not at full health and he had vision on you, it was usually a death sentence, since you cant escape someone who has flash on a 3 to 5 second cooldown.

kassadin is/was basically like the new talon without a wall cooldown.

ParoeNov 8, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=L5TNwRLx,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2016-11-08T04:58:08.775+0000)

fact:

youre judging this based on kassadins current state when half his kit was removed, and he was nerfed to shit, to prevent him to be batshit overpowered thanks to his brokenass ult.

whenever kassadins kit has the numbers to back it up and hes not complete trash, he usually turns into a hypercarry.

this is very true. To this effect... item 3078 item 3053 item 3742 item 3110 item 3111 item 3102 / item 3074 is actually a pretty good toplane bruiser kass build.

JoseraphNov 9, 20161 votes

That's 7 items

ParoeNov 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

That's 7 items

Im sorry, will this help? item 3078 item 3053 item 3742 item 3110 item 3111 item 3102 / (this means OR) item 3074

JoseraphNov 9, 20161 votes

My bad, the slash was wayyyyy to small for me to notice on my own on my screen

TattersallNov 8, 20161 votes

I don't have the most experience on Kass, but I've always said that, instead of being a late-game carry, he's more of an end-game carry, as in by the time he's scaled sufficiently, at least one team has two inhibitors and one nexus turret down. Also, he becomes a ks god.

ErinTheKnightNov 8, 20161 votes

Now I will admit that you are right that he is not a hyper carry. You say "If your team needs damage, you'd definitely not want to pick Kassadin". I say "If you team need SINGLE target damage, then you CAN pick Kassadin. I dont play him to blow up teams, I play him like I play Kha'zix. Wait for a squishy to get JUST out of range of the peel, hop in, pop em, and pop out.

Also, you compare The Anti Mage to Viktor, Annie, and Brand. Take a moment to understand all that AOE on that list. C'mon. Brand? Kass is not brand. Kass is like a Talon (Rework) or once again Kha'zix.

Also, since you guys are posting builds, ever try item 3042 on kass? I find its a fun alternative to item 3003 . Rush item 3004 , into item 3027 . Or if your doing ok, get item 3100 right after you build Manamune. Its a fun build due to the fact his Q procs and his W procs it twice. I call it the "Stab-a-din" [slayer-jinx-catface]

Bladerunner7777Nov 8, 20161 votes

Kass doesn't need buffs, for one

And secondly, he's powerspikes hardest mid-game (roughly level 11), by now he should be running around the map killing everything. If the game is like 50 minutes long obviously he isn't going to compete with Kog'maw, Jinx, Azir, etc. The thing about them that makes them the ultimate hypercarries is that they have long range and deal a billion damage.

Kassadin is still very good lategame though, not because he wipes teams off the face of the planet or anything. He's good because his ult literally gets a non-existent cooldown and he becomes extremely hard to kill. Not to mention he should have sufficient mana at this point (and a max rank W, which will restore a ton of mana if you hit a champion). But don't be fooled, he still has a ton of damage (unless you fed and didn't take advantage of his midgame), he becomes similar to an AP version of Rengar except he's more slippery and arguably has more burst damage (and better sustained damage)

#Do note that his winrate will likely plummet in the preseason.

This is due to the fact that Kassadin is best when laning against mages, and he absolutely sucks against AD assassins/champions. Guess what? Tons of people are going to be playing AD assassins again.

NeoBrawlerNov 8, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Kass doesn't need buffs, for one

And secondly, he's powerspikes hardest mid-game (roughly level 11), by now he should be running around the map killing everything. If the game is like 50 minutes long obviously he isn't going to compete with Kog'maw, Jinx, Azir, etc. The thing about them that makes them the ultimate hypercarries is that they have long range and deal a billion damage.

Kassadin is still very good lategame though, not because he wipes teams off the face of the planet or anything. He's good because his ult literally gets a non-existent cooldown and he becomes extremely hard to kill. Not to mention he should have sufficient mana at this point (and a max rank W, which will restore a ton of mana if you hit a champion). But don't be fooled, he still has a ton of damage (unless you fed and didn't take advantage of his midgame), he becomes similar to an AP version of Rengar except he's more slippery and arguably has more burst damage (and better sustained damage)

#Do note that his winrate will likely plummet in the preseason.

This is due to the fact that Kassadin is best when laning against mages, and he absolutely sucks against AD assassins/champions. Guess what? Tons of people are going to be playing AD assassins again.

But that Kat though, they pick her, you pick kass and never die to her.

Ariel the CruelNov 8, 20161 votes

Pick Kat? Are you nuts? I'm picking Naut, Shyvana, Galio, and Maokai mid once pre-season hits. All those assassins can cry me a river! ;p

DoktorKaiserNov 8, 20161 votes

Dk how people constantly say he has a trash laning phase, I just always get rekt (as an AP of course) with his constant Q spamming, it doesnt have silence any more yes, but apparently neither does it have any significant mana cost and gives magic shield so he spends his entire lane spamming q on me untill I run out of hp and after 6 he is safe af. But I agree, his late isnt as good as it should be right now, but then again remember season 3 and that horror :S

Athenes LuluNov 8, 20161 votes

I've always thought Kass is more of a midgame champ since his key strengths is mostly roaming.

Or at least that's what current Kass has been. The "hypercarry Kass" is history, (un?)fortunately.

ZirzonNov 8, 20161 votes

I dunno, according to champion.gg his win rate by game length seems pretty similar to Tristana, where their winrate spikes after at 40+ minutes. He only reaches above 50% winrate after 40 minutes, so doesn't that speak to his late game carry potential?

I dunno, I could be just misunderstanding what "lategame hypercarry" is.

BardfulNov 8, 20161 votes

He does a lot of damage but you have to get a decent early start to enormously carry. I know someone who plays them and though I am not in high elo or anything I have seen them carry and rack up a lot of kills. The trick was to roam to bot lane like katarina and kill someone post 6. The ult allows unique ganking paths and he doesn't need flash either so though his wave clear is bad you can still go. He went 29/8/9 one game, 24/5/8, 34/0/1. Though you won't always get this way I just wanted to say I have been carried.

MunchCrunchLunchNov 8, 20161 votes

very strong late game. his strongest point. however if the enemy has big cc tanks. he struggles if someone else can occupy these tanks would destroy squishies.

Handin Out NapsNov 8, 20161 votes

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2251667827/216279741?tab=stats

Also build Morello instead of LichBane. Kass is still a hyper carry and his mobility helps him capitalize on mistakes. He also one shots perfectly fine late game idk what you are on about. Remember Assassins are different from mages you need to be looking for flanks you cant just jump in.

LaughingStaplerNov 9, 20161 votes

I haven't played the new assassins but looking at how mobile Kat and Talon are, I'm really curious what Kassadin's niche will be. Their dashes are actually longer and doesn't go to 800 mana :D but they are also a bit more situational.