Eve has a 38% win ratio...

Koechophe·Dec 20, 2014·8 votes·1,951 views

So let's give her a low-end mana regen buff on her passive and make her melee range E apply on hit effects once. Yup. That should stop the jungle from beating the crap out of her so bad that she's useless.

29 Comments

Poptart EvelynnDec 21, 20144 votes

The jungle isn't even the main issue as bad as it is. It's that she is useless regardless of going 10-0.

MollDec 21, 20142 votes

^ This

They talked somewhere that eve is versatile and able to go tank or ad. Yet when she goes tank or AD she is worthless in game.

Goes tank: just ignore her back rubs Goes AD: She doesn't have enough burst to kill anyone before dieing

But they destroyed vision making her a little better so she must be nerfed.

SOS TsubakiDec 21, 20142 votes

She's needs some buffs. Faster clear time and extra damage wouldn't even hurt the gameplay much anyway.

SohleksDec 21, 20142 votes

If for some reason I was forced to play Eve I would just use her as a solo laner at this point.

KoechopheDec 21, 20141 votes

That's not really viable either. Her q is more like "hate tickle" than "hate spike", her ult does laughable damage even to full hp targets, her E's base damage was gutted (not to mention she can't build mage anymore because mpen doesn't work on her largest damage spell) and if you roam, you're more likely to give the enemy bot lane a triple than to actually help.

Kowe The EwokDec 21, 20141 votes

That "buff" isn't even much of that. It only helps when she is beneath 50% mana - and in danger of running OOM. Since her regen still isn't too impressive there's a good chance that she WILL ran OOM with the new passive.

Yea, I think she needs more. I'ld even say a kit rework, the last one went horrible.

xJLx MCHammerDec 21, 20141 votes

Yo! Until she hits that 35% winrate, you can use winrate as excuse. Urgot was at bottom for nearly 16 months and he got one small buff

SaiannaDec 21, 20141 votes

I really tried to write something constructive but..

Is it Evelynns fault that no Riot designer wants to try to rework Urgot?

Also did you know in 2012 Riot has declared that they do not want to see Evelynn as (viable) assassin anymore? And that was ~25 months ago? They even nerfed her ultimate so it deals almost no damage?

Reason behind rework? To enable more YOLO way of playing. Here's quote from Statikk:

For Evelynn, her core ability Shadow Walk allowed her to remain invisible for long periods of time, ultimately forcing players to stay on the defensive and favor cautious play

Dar RaksadaDec 21, 20143 votes

{quoted}

I really tried to write something constructive but..

Is it Evelynns fault that no Riot designer wants to try to rework Urgot?

Also did you know in 2012 Riot has declared that they do not want to see Evelynn as (viable) assassin anymore? And that was ~25 months ago? They even nerfed her ultimate so it deals almost no damage?

Reason behind rework? To enable more YOLO way of playing. Here's quote from Statikk:

If they just added proper anti-stealth mechanics (I.E. old pink wards, oracles elixir) they could buff her back up to a good level, maybe they could even release pre-rework twitch as a new champion! (Yes, I am still pissed about that rework, though it's not the point here.)

I'd love for Evelynn to be good again, but only if they add proper anti-stealth (like it used to be, play and counterplay) so that, while she does encourage defensive play on the enemies' side, the enemy could take countermeasures to be able to play more agressively (i.e. place invisible pinks).

KoechopheDec 21, 20143 votes

I hate having to say this so many times, but I will:

Oracle's elixir does NOTHING to combat eve. Oracle's detection radius is smaller than eve's stealth sight radius. Old pink wards also don't solve the problem so long as eve is skilled. If you put pinks outside the lane, you can do a lane gank using your stealth to remain unseen. If they put pinks inside the lane, then you come in from outside unseen and gank effectively. You would have to pink in 3-5 different spots to cover all of her avenues of approach, which if you keep that up, is so much gold that she's shutting you down right then and there. Unless the lane is stupid and doesn't keep track of where pinks are, and unless eve is stupid and doesn't know how to avoid detection, she's still going to get to you and wreck you.

The problem is, people don't know how to play against eve correctly. Even at her highest, she is EXTREMELY vulnerable to counter jungling, and without red, she cannot gank. She also has no inherent cc outside of her ult, and lacks burst at early levels, which means while her ganks are accessible, they are extremely weak. Unless someone is over extended or else very low, the gank will not work. She also is extremely squishy, and she usually has to burn her W to get to you from stealth radius. She has a lot of counter play, she is just exceptional at exploiting stupidity (Which people tend to have a lot of). She was only popular in the pro circuit when she was blatently op, she's been out of flavor ever since the first few rounds of nerfs for that exact reason.

Also, people complain too heavily about eve when others have just as little "counterplay". Shaco's ganks, for instance, have more reliable stealth and much more damage and cc. Rengar, twitch and nocturn also have the same benefits.

People hate eve, but she has plenty of counterplay and is statistically and logistically the weakest champion in the game right now.

Support EvelynnDec 21, 20141 votes

{quoted} People hate eve, but she has plenty of counterplay and is statistically and logistically the weakest champion in the game right now.

Except I have no clue where you got your statistic from.

Edit: lol norms, with people who have no clue how to clear with her let alone carry with her.

KoechopheDec 21, 20141 votes

http://www.lolking.net/charts?region=all&type=champion-loserate&range=daily&map=sr&queue=1x1&league=challenger

Highest ranked tier in the game. Eve is sitting at the lowest win ratio which is a whopping 18.08%. Are you going to tell me that the master tier players don't know how to play her either?

Support EvelynnDec 21, 20141 votes

{quoted}

http://www.lolking.net/charts?region=all&type=champion-loserate&range=daily&map=sr&queue=1x1&league=challenger

Highest ranked tier in the game. Eve is sitting at the lowest win ratio which is a whopping 18.08%. Are you going to tell me that the master tier players don't know how to play her either?

Out of ELEVEN GAMES.

Around the ENTIRE WORLD.

KoechopheDec 21, 20141 votes

Right, because this is the top .0001%. The fact that she's so underplayed also shows you something, but I'm guessing you're going to ignore that too.

Bottom line: I show you the normal statistics, you tell me normal players aren't good enough. I show you the top-end statistics, you tell me there aren't enough top end players. So here's the middle of the road ranked statistics: http://www.lolking.net/charts?region=all&type=champion-loserate&range=daily&map=sr&queue=1x1&league=gold

Guess what? Eve's on the bottom there too with a win ratio of 40%. Your move.

Dar RaksadaDec 22, 20141 votes

{quoted}

I hate having to say this so many times, but I will:

Oracle's elixir does NOTHING to combat eve. Oracle's detection radius is smaller than eve's stealth sight radius. Old pink wards also don't solve the problem so long as eve is skilled. If you put pinks outside the lane, you can do a lane gank using your stealth to remain unseen. If they put pinks inside the lane, then you come in from outside unseen and gank effectively. You would have to pink in 3-5 different spots to cover all of her avenues of approach, which if you keep that up, is so much gold that she's shutting you down right then and there. Unless the lane is stupid and doesn't keep track of where pinks are, and unless eve is stupid and doesn't know how to avoid detection, she's still going to get to you and wreck you.

The problem is, people don't know how to play against eve correctly. Even at her highest, she is EXTREMELY vulnerable to counter jungling, and without red, she cannot gank. She also has no inherent cc outside of her ult, and lacks burst at early levels, which means while her ganks are accessible, they are extremely weak. Unless someone is over extended or else very low, the gank will not work. She also is extremely squishy, and she usually has to burn her W to get to you from stealth radius. She has a lot of counter play, she is just exceptional at exploiting stupidity (Which people tend to have a lot of). She was only popular in the pro circuit when she was blatently op, she's been out of flavor ever since the first few rounds of nerfs for that exact reason.

Also, people complain too heavily about eve when others have just as little "counterplay". Shaco's ganks, for instance, have more reliable stealth and much more damage and cc. Rengar, twitch and nocturn also have the same benefits.

People hate eve, but she has plenty of counterplay and is statistically and logistically the weakest champion in the game right now.

I was agreeing with you, but with oracles I meant oracles vs her old stealth (the one that had no detection radius). You could just pink the most important spots and, due to how the stealth works these days she can't pop up behind you, in which case she'll have to gapclose while heaving no cc outside her ult slow, just like regular wards don't make ganks impossible and you can't ward every ganking spot. The counterplay is/was always there, but people refuse to use the counterplay, though she used to have more counterplay due to invis pinks.

She does punish bad play quite hard, just like Shaco and Fiddlesticks, but maybe that's a good thing as it encourages people to play better?

SaiannaDec 22, 20141 votes

But ofc i agree with you.

KoechopheDec 21, 20141 votes

Uhm, actually, what happened was "pre-rework eve" had what was determined as a "toxic" kit so she was purposefully nerfed out of viability until her rework. They said they didn't want that kit to be viable, but they have made no statements that they don't want the "reworked" kit to be viable.

stealthfox94Dec 21, 20141 votes

45%

KoechopheDec 21, 20141 votes

http://www.lolking.net/charts?region=all&type=champion-loserate&range=daily&map=sr&queue=normal

At the time in which this comment was posted (and in which my thread was posted) eve occupies the lowest slot with a win ratio of 38.05%

Support EvelynnDec 21, 20141 votes

The E applying on hit effects is huge, please don't downplay it. It makes her AP burst insane as an assassin since it'll be instant from stealth.

KoechopheDec 21, 20141 votes

It does almost nothing to her AP burst because if you don't land the auto attack after her E, you're not playing it right. It actually DOES help her AD burst because you're getting an additional proc of BoTRK, but that help is somewhat minimal.

Support EvelynnDec 21, 20141 votes

{quoted}

It does almost nothing to her AP burst because if you don't land the auto attack after her E, you're not playing it right. It actually DOES help her AD burst because you're getting an additional proc of BoTRK, but that help is somewhat minimal.

It's not landing the AA after the E, it's the cast time of the E that's the thing. With this change she'll be able to instantly kill adcs before ravage even finishes casting late game..

KoechopheDec 21, 20141 votes

It's doubtful that eve will be able to "instant-kill" anyone in her current incarnation. That buff is not huge because her E is less of a "kill" spell and more of an opening damage spell, seeing that it gives a massive attack speed buff.

Also, AD eve is far more viable than AP eve at the moment. The lifesteal builds are far better at clearing the jungle and you get more burst from triforce/BoTRK than you do from most ap builds.

Support EvelynnDec 21, 20141 votes

{quoted}

It's doubtful that eve will be able to "instant-kill" anyone in her current incarnation. That buff is not huge because her E is less of a "kill" spell and more of an opening damage spell, seeing that it gives a massive attack speed buff.

Also, AD eve is far more viable than AP eve at the moment. The lifesteal builds are far better at clearing the jungle and you get more burst from triforce/BoTRK than you do from most ap builds.

I clear just fine with AP eve, and you must be high because AP eve has the absolute highest burst out of any Eve build. It's just the nature of AP builds in general considering you can acquire far more.

I feel like AD is more akin to a split push build, as I generally use it when I'm top lane.

RebonackDec 22, 20141 votes

{quoted}

The E applying on hit effects is huge, please don't downplay it. It makes her AP burst insane as an assassin since it'll be instant from stealth.

I think you have a somewhat skewed idea of what 'huge' AP burst looks like.

LeB has HUGE AP burst. Annie has HUGE AP burst. This change just means Eve would get off Lichbane a fraction of a second faster and net an extra 0.4 AP ratio on her E due to masteries and Nashor's. Does that help? Neeeeh... yeah, I guess. Not at much as making her E deal magic damage would, though.

Mixed damage on an Assassin is just a terrible idea. It only works on champions if they have built-in mixed shred (like Eve did before her abomination of a remake) or if their damage is just so overwhelming that it doesn't matter (sup Jax).

Skia AsteriDec 21, 20141 votes

Her win rate went up the next day. The sample size is too small for reliable statistics.

AkabaneKunDec 22, 20141 votes

Lets not forget the game has RekSai now ,one less reason to let eve and stealth champs like shaco stay in the state they are now, see someone pick eve just pick rek and counter jungle all day long and get fed free.

BledwingsDec 22, 20141 votes

when i was playing her before the new jungle, i had a 70 percent win rate with her

Meep ManDec 22, 20141 votes

Well at least she has an item that she can aim towards building. Now she can build a Blade of the Ruined King to deal 16% of the target's current health. She can also get a Trinity Force or Lich Bane to deal some super shit damage at once.

However, I agree, Eve sucks.