Reminder that Karma can root you for whole 3.25 seconds with a point-and-click

Zero Skill Tank·Oct 24, 2018·1 votes·1,381 views

With an ability that also deals more damage than Lux Q (250 + 70% AP vs 260 + 90% AP), heals for more than 3-man Darius Q (36% missing HP vs 40% missing HP + 2% per 100 AP), has range greater than Cait autos (650 v 675, not mentioning 100 on tether) and just in case that a melee champion would have - god forbid! - the audacity and tried to outplay her with some brush vision manipulation, it also reveals you.

Lovely design right there, lets buff, because fuck melee toplaners.

[slayer-jinx-catface]

22 Comments

FOR JUSTICEOct 24, 201811 votes

Because its delayed with a tether and requires use of her ult

RalanrOct 24, 20183 votes

Eh...even with the delay unless you have flash or a dash she’s gonna root you because if you try and outrun her she’ll just speed herself up to keep up.

Fighting Karma as a Melee champion is generally hell.

IllabetheOct 24, 20181 votes

Aatrox Contains her with his Chains. Even if she roots, she's still there. Akali Completely 2 shots her with half her kit...... even if she misses E, and you managed to Mantra Tether her. Even under your own turret. Darius 's slow destroys Karma Diana 1 shots Karma Fizz You have to build insanely Resist tanky to win this fight. He destroys her otherwise. Gangplank Can 1 shot Karma, and heal out of most of her damage since she doesn't have sustained damage. JarvanIV Destroys Karma. Jax Destroys Karma before Root can proc. Khazix 1 Shots Karma MasterYi Kills Karma before her root an activate, and her slow is ineffective. Nocturne Fear makes the root useless; Karma dies after both leashes resolve. Olaf Cannot be CC'd. Usually kills her before Ragnarok is out. Talon Barrier isn't enough to soak the damage. Shyvana Melts right through shield and kills her before tether is out with her enhanced E. Urgot Rotates damage too fast to react to..... cancels her survival with his ult. Volibear Outtanks her damage MonkeyKing Destroys her when he has ult or a solo Nimbus strike engage. Yasuo Used to be countered by her. Now usually kills her before the root activates.

I'd love to know how the majority of melees have problems with her...... It's usually ADC and Mages that struggle.

RalanrOct 24, 20181 votes

I was more referring to tanks or champions that don’t have the capacity to outrun her because usually when Karma (in my experience at least) bothers to tether people it’s when she has a clear advantage in the fight.

I’m not saying Karma is strong or OP. I’m saying she’s annoying to fight at times. Not that I’m saying she needs nerfs, I honestly don’t care about her state (though her new rework that reduces champion cooldowns does worry me).

IllabetheOct 24, 20181 votes

Usually when Karma Tether's it's because she needs to heal and is semi running away.

P.S. Karma can win some 1v1's. But W in a team fight is a suicide, and usually also in a 1v2.

And if we're talking late game, tank karma has no damage nor tankiness. She falls off in both.

Death by GlamourOct 24, 20181 votes

darius slow destroys karma... he has to get to karma first

and she lane counters jax fairly hard like she always has

you keep bringing up 1 shots here and there forgetting you generally build karma top as a tank not just sunfire/frozen fist into AP

IllabetheOct 24, 20181 votes

You do realize that Darius is no longer slow? Runes are overabundant at making him move fast enough to keep up with bursts.

He also has taken to getting item 3078 item 3742 item 3009 item 3800

44% are also taking summoner 6

And when a Darius whose good is close to Karma, he doesn't run in a straight line...... he waits for Karma to Q....... and Flashes past it. Which puts him in range to Apprehend. Which = dead.

Karma CAN build an insanely fast rune page and items to try to combat this.... but the tradeoff is..... when he Ghosts..... she has less defensive stats, less AP, and dies more absolutely.

Yet.... if you build tanky, you're now subject to being perma caught, and having your armor shredded.

P.S. Who brought up Karma top lane vs Darius? I just said Karma vs Darius... I didn't say where Karma was playing. This is a team game.

Also, to get close enough to really W Darius, you DO put yourself in Apprehend's range. Try the lane sometime. The second you W Darius, you will get pulled.

I still don't know why people EVER would build Sunfire on almost ANY champ. Much less a Karma? Sunfire's entire expression is: I have no CDR, can't last hit mobs, and wanted a tiny bit of non skill damage. Cinderhulk works because of the Bonus HP mod, and because some junglers are melee face tankers. There are so much better picks top lane than a Sunfire..... Most Sunfire builders end up feeding.

Zero Skill TankOct 24, 20181 votes

Her "ULT" has virtually no cooldown - even less so against a melee champ - nor some mana cost attached to it.

And she doesn't even need to be 6 to use it.

How's that "ult"? Because it's bound to R button? She can re-bind it to Q if she wishes so /s

IllabetheOct 24, 20185 votes

You don't have a clue..... the base on Karma's ult is 45 -36 seconds..... and it acts like Karma's Udyr R or Nid/Jayce: It's an activator for her OTHER skills to make them more useful than a papercut.

There are tons of melees who can break the tether..... anyone with a friggin dash, and most melees can kill her before it even activates.

It's also not a 1000 range. It's 675 Range.

Bonus movement speed is 1.5 seconds per 10-8 seconds. That's a lot of move speed.... compared to just every melee who has move speed that scales stronger....

Pika FoxOct 24, 201811 votes

Complaining about karma in 2018

Death by GlamourOct 24, 20182 votes

Just because the meta sheep are playing "tank" viktor dont underestimate how strong karma is in the toplane

Pika FoxOct 24, 20182 votes

Sure, until she comes out of lane and gets dumpstered. She needs a rework for a reason.

Death by GlamourOct 24, 20181 votes

no she makes a transition from a lane bully to a shield bot same as she does as a support pick

Pika FoxOct 24, 20181 votes

Which has been gutted, and thus she proceeds to get dumpstered because numerous picks do her job better, and the top laner you were beating is now more valuable than you. Again, shes getting reworked for a reason.

Zero Skill TankOct 24, 20182 votes

She is no less cancer to play against as a melee than she used to be.

Pika FoxOct 24, 20182 votes

Play urgot then. Or aatrox.

IllabetheOct 24, 20187 votes

You do realize according to the Karma patch history (unlike the current patch's mention)..... never actually scaled Karma's Root Duration until now. In 5.10 they added the Mantra root duration addition, but it was a flat .5 across all tiers.

So that's actually new.

Also

-Lux's Q hits 2 targets, and her primary damage is in her PASSIVE, not her skills..... -Lux's Q has a range of 1175. Karma's W is 675. FAR more risk involved, and it actually has a delay to proc it. -Karma's is single target. -Karma's cooldown is longer. -Karma's requires her to sacrifice her actual damage to cast it (Can't Mantra Q)

You're comparing apples to oranges.

Also

Morgana's Q is up to 3 seconds with NO CONDITIONS.

Zyra's E is AOE, 2 seconds, and summons slowing plants and does more damage than both, and is 1100 range.

And you shouldn't be complaining: the one champion this actually affects the most is Yasuo

FrickfaceOct 24, 20185 votes

Reminder that this implies you're able to stay within range of you enemy when half of them have mobility, not to mention the risk of them just turning on you with the amount of stick that is also often available. There's a lot of OP stuff right now, but calling out a very niche champion for a singular ability is certainly new. [sg-miss-fortune]

jocomotionOct 25, 20183 votes

Just ignore The fact that it’s delayed, The fact that W’s the last thing she maxes (so it’s only ever going to be 3.25 at level 18) The fact that it’s technically an ultimate The fact you can simply walk away The fact that the heals only good when she’s building tank

Then yeah, bullshit rito plez nerf is too brok...

Zero Skill TankOct 25, 20181 votes

The fact you can simply walk away

You would need to gain 300+ units by "walking", even if she casts it at max range. So you need at least 150 more MS than her to do that.

The fact that W’s the last thing she maxes (so it’s only ever going to be 3.25 at level 18)

Karma top can easily max W second, especially into tanks. Even if not, root duration scales with Mantra rank as well, at level 11 it is 2.4 second root even without W ranks - still one of the longest in the game.

The fact that it’s technically an ultimate

It has tiny CD for an ult (and with the reset it aproaches basic ability teritory), it has no mana cost and is even available before six. It's only "technically" an ult because it's bound to R key, you can change that freely in settings.

The fact that the heals only good when she’s building tank

With 500 AP she heals for half of her missing health, which can easily be several hundred HP of healing, even with only a RoA. Yep, terrible.

AlzonOct 24, 20182 votes

Reminder that stuns/snares aren’t the problem as anyone can get ~60% Tenacity from runes + item 3111 .

COBRA C0MM4NDEROct 24, 20181 votes

I been playing Karma since she came on the rift. She's very general purpose. she just can't jg easy as others. the rework was nice but killed the old playstyle.

You'd hate to lane vs Old Karma.