The support role sure has changed

D357R0Y3R·Jan 17, 2019·23 votes·12,081 views

https://i.gyazo.com/cd79a9f8b06ed5baf3e97f09702c3259.jpg

went from having characters that healed/shielded in season 2, to characters that have burst+cc in season 9 (if braum and tahm kench are banned)

lmao

60 Comments

Rock MDJan 17, 201924 votes

It was champions that bursted and CC'd in season 3 and 4

And champions that tanked in season 5 and 6

back to champions that shielded in 7

and back to burst champions in season 8

What's your point?

D357R0Y3RJan 17, 201911 votes

The support role is just an other word for "carries without items" that's what it is in season 9

alistar pyke gragas elise brand zyra all can almost 100-0 you at lvl 3

Rock MDJan 17, 201919 votes

{quoted}

The support role is just an other word for "carries without items" that's what it is in season 9

alistar pyke gragas elise brand zyra all can almost 100-0 you at lvl 3

You mean like when Annie was meta for half a season? It was season 4 no less, the season everyone here seems to claim was Riot's last good season.

You're being fucking dramatic. You might not like the season but this isn't anything we haven't seen before.

Fire BlaustoiseJan 17, 20193 votes

Dont know about season 4 tbh. This elise sup isnt an issue too, GRF just play their style and its cool. But yeah, supports are too strong. Like every ap supports (even tanks like Alistar are tbh) are a threats.

Rock MDJan 17, 20194 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fire Blaustoise,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KtyFHxBR,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-17T17:16:40.692+0000)

Dont know about season 4 tbh. This elise sup isnt an issue too, GRF just play their style and its cool. But yeah, supports are too strong. Like every ap supports (even tanks like Alistar are tbh) are a threats.

Yep. We talk a lot about how damage heavy champions got creeped but everyone tends to ignore that everyone's damage going up benefits low damage champions the most.

Seems kinda contradictory? It's like when defenses are too good. The meta tanks aren't the tankiest, they're the ones that deal the most damage. The ADs are the ones that scale up the most because they have a meta suited for them to survive until then.

Same goes for high damage. If LB killed you before what's that extra damage really going to do? But it'll work wonders for a champion like Alistar or Rakan who are now capable of 100-0'ing for much longer into the game than they should have.

Altogether it's not that I disagree with OP about lots of damage on the supports, I just think he's being whiny and ignoring really important facts, like that this meta has been done before, or that Gragas has been played support a number of times already.

ΗuaweiJan 17, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Rock MD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KtyFHxBR,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2019-01-17T16:38:29.539+0000)

You mean like when Annie was meta for half a season? It was season 4 no less, the season everyone here seems to claim was Riot's last good season.

You're being fucking dramatic. You might not like the season but this isn't anything we haven't seen before.

Supports nowdays are just mages.

I have taken ridiculous champions in the support role. I can even play Quinn support.

I mean she has a slow and blind and can roam all the map to gather kills and gank.

But really,

Supports should bring utlity. It's meaingless if its "Just another damage champion"

GayFluffyUnicornJan 18, 20191 votes

Difference being them not running around with a nearly solo lane gold income.

Electro522Jan 18, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Rock MD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KtyFHxBR,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2019-01-17T16:38:29.539+0000)

It was season 4 no less, the season everyone here seems to claim was Riot's last good season.

Well played sir......well played.

Rock MDJan 18, 20193 votes

{quoted}

Well played sir......well played.

Maybe in comparison to the rest of this sub.

I'm just playing checkers while most of gameplay is trying to not eat the pieces.

HeeroTXJan 18, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Rock MD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KtyFHxBR,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2019-01-17T16:38:29.539+0000)

You mean like when Annie was meta for half a season? It was season 4 no less, the season everyone here seems to claim was Riot's last good season.

Back in the day, you could counter (support) Annie with one item, you can't do that with current burst mages that are in bot lane.

MoonscourgeJan 17, 20193 votes

{quoted}

The support role is just an other word for "carries without items" that's what it is in season 9

alistar pyke gragas elise brand zyra all can almost 100-0 you at lvl 3

And players have wanted this forever. Give the role agency and the ability to do things even with their limited budget. Works pretty well.

ModKnightsKemplarJan 17, 201916 votes

Nerf spellthief.

But seriously, even at low tiers of play, burst supports are a pervasive problem. I appreciate that they are nerfing Brand and Zyra to tone it down, but the underlying problem remains; at that point you're just nerfing champions who abuse your OP system so you don't have to change it.

Coin isn't broken. Balance the lane around that, instead of these consistently problematic items. Yes, you read that right. I got even more extreme, and I think removing relic shield wouldn't be crazy, either. Just let coin have branching upgrade paths and steer into the curve, since spellthief and relic are balance nightmares at various levels of play.

RagnaveilJan 17, 20195 votes

I very much agree with this. Spellthief just allows mage supports to itemize faster compared to if they were playing mid. Relic just stagnates a laning phase (or creates a pushing war considering the item has an execute).

IllabetheJan 17, 20194 votes

I Play "Fill" Zyra and I can tell you this: I get the same gold no matter what role I'm playing. Spellthief is not comparatively giving more than a lane role. If you manage to carry, the gold can get close to a lane phase income, but most of it will still come from the kills, not the item itself.

DeathcapShacoJan 17, 201915 votes

Coin is fucking boring and the least fun support item to use. The circle jerk around support being too strong is getting so annoying, tone down every roles damage and stop whinning about mage supports. There is too much damage in general, stop crying about spell thief supports that are only good in lower ranks meanwhile tank supports crush high ELO.

HÔPÊJan 17, 20192 votes

In what world are you in? Supports like Brand and Zyra are currently too strong. Every site shows that. They get free gold for poking, which also wins them lane. Poking should be about trading your resources for dealing damage. Coin is probably the most consistent gold income supp item in the game and balancing around it might be the best way of balancing support.

MorgManBasherJan 18, 20194 votes

{quoted}

In what world are you in? Supports like Brand and Zyra are currently too strong. Every site shows that. They get free gold for poking, which also wins them lane. Poking should be about trading your resources for dealing damage. Coin is probably the most consistent gold income supp item in the game and balancing around it might be the best way of balancing support.

Zyra/brand are "too strong" in low ELO, that's it. If you want the top supports you want Alistar Thresh TahmKench Braum Rakan Pyke Coin is fucking boring because you literally don't have to do a thing for it, it promotes passive play and makes the game boring.

Zyra/brand are only overbearing if you are bad and don't know to avoid poke and all in them level 2-3. Even if that doesn't work you just wait for ganks, sustain, play passive and kill them when they shove. You should always be hitting level 2 before brand/zyra if you are running relic shield.

ØrnnToGetTrolleÐJan 17, 20196 votes

Coin not broken? You literally get more gold with coin than with any other item, for doing absolutely nothing in lane.

Why are you a "Herald" again?

Done25Jan 17, 20193 votes

{quoted}

Coin not broken? You literally get more gold with coin than with any other item, for doing absolutely nothing in lane.

Why are you a "Herald" again?

It also doesn't boost early game sustain like fang or sustain like relic. It's the passive farm soak item.

HÔPÊJan 17, 20192 votes

Coin is the easiest one to balance. He is right. It is the most consistent item out of support items. Spellthief and Relic are difficult to balance because their usability depends too many factors. Spellthief gives you gold for winning a lane, because you are poking and that is your only task here. Relic gives you gold for playing passive, which also is too item dependant. Those items tell you how to play the game, because they are strong only if you play around a certain playstyle. Coin is the easiest and best to balance. It gives you gold for being close to minions, which can be good both while being an attacker and defender. Also it can be countered on early levels, because you can block somebody from getting a coin that fell on the ground and if he goes for it, you can kill him. So there is risk and exchange for earning money. Later those coins automatically collect themselves, which is good for mid game. It is also easier to nerf and buff than spellthief and relic, so there is little to compare. Coin is just a better item to balance the role around, because it has everything that such item needs and isn't a balancing nightmere.

Fízz v2Jan 17, 201912 votes

elise support? monkaS

D357R0Y3RJan 17, 20194 votes

Better nerf Brand and Zyra

hehe

Abibyama IIJan 17, 20194 votes

##GOOD

Fuck them

GaliöJan 17, 20196 votes

That guy made it to rank 1 in Korea on support Elise and subbed top. Kinda just BM'd the enemy team.

He missed every flash/cacoon and still won lll

Fire BlaustoiseJan 17, 20196 votes

its not bm. He legit duo carry with Tarzan this game.

MarshbouyJan 17, 20196 votes

earlier this week I was not in favor of nerfing support income if it means taking mages out of bot lane.

you know what? fuck mages. give me redemption, locket/athenes, and sightstone and i'll be fine if it means getting zyra/vel'koz/brand out of the role permanently.

Player342Jan 17, 20196 votes

Just nerf damage. People won't be able to burst everyone and when they realize that, they will switch to healers/enchanters/tanks, because it will be more efficient to peel for damage dealers

LTK KoRoJan 18, 20192 votes

Majority of players want to be relevant, not to peel for the carries.

There's a reason why ardent meta was one of the most despised metas ever. It was too reliant on peeling, which isn't a thing anyone want to do every game

ChaddyFantomeJan 18, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=LTK KoRo,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KtyFHxBR,comment-id=000b0000,timestamp=2019-01-18T07:14:54.005+0000)

Majority of players want to be relevant, not to peel for the carries.

-implying peel isn't relevant.

There's a reason why ardent meta was one of the most despised metas ever. It was too reliant on peeling, which isn't a thing anyone want to do every game

only people that don't are the ones that dont wanna do anything but get their rocks off mindlessly one shotting to begin with.

BestPudgeNAJan 18, 20192 votes

{quoted}

only peopl that don't are the people that wanna dont wanna do anything but get their rocks off mindlessly one shotting to begin with.

Can someone translate this to English

ChaddyFantomeJan 18, 20191 votes

there, happy?

LTK KoRoJan 19, 20191 votes

Peel is not relevant. Peeling raises your chances to win, but first, it's a really effortless strategy, second, playing peel only is not fun, third, peelers are unsung heros and no one gives a crap about them when it matters.

I wouldn't want to play a game where im forced to play around ADC and peel for him every match just because he's a superior role right now.

HÔPÊJan 17, 20195 votes

I kinda hate how support is no longer about protecting your adc, but more about killing. How can it even be called support? It is just a better mid laner but on bot lane.

NevrankroatonJan 18, 20192 votes

It was like that with Blitz, leona and alistar (later tresh) in S2/S3 so it isn't anything new. Just that the meta always favor a type other an other

14daysuspensionkJan 17, 20194 votes

Please don't tell me that's Elise support.

Death by GlamourJan 17, 20194 votes

do you need to sit down sir?

14daysuspensionkJan 17, 20193 votes

[{quoted}](name=Death by Glamour,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KtyFHxBR,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-01-17T18:48:29.112+0000)

do you need to sit down sir?

Yea...

Death by GlamourJan 17, 20191 votes

just take a seat sir beside all the take mains, nurse akali and surgeon shen will see you promptly

14daysuspensionkJan 17, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Death by Glamour,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KtyFHxBR,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-17T20:50:23.678+0000)

just take a seat sir beside all the take mains, nurse akali and surgeon shen will see you promptly

Umm... no I wasn't asking for medical help...

MorgManBasherJan 17, 20193 votes

Gragas is a tank support He does decent damage, but you are kidding yourself if you think he's a burst mage. Almost no one goes full AP support gragas except when super ahead and doing it for fun.

Gragas though is definitely a great support and better in higher elo's than low ELO. He's been a solid support now for a while thanks to aftershock.

Tank supports are king in high ELO and competitive despite low elo crying over brand and zyra.

Death by GlamourJan 17, 20191 votes

Gragas is a tank support

he was nerfed that hardhe was an assassin mage now hes tank support :D :D :D

MorgManBasherJan 17, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Death by Glamour,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KtyFHxBR,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2019-01-17T20:51:15.196+0000)

he was nerfed that hardhe was an assassin mage now hes tank support :D :D :D

He's been buffed up a lot the last months. Starting to be a good pick in multiple roles.

He hasn't been a burst assassin since before his rework. Like, yeah you can play him that way but he just makes a better tank though most people build him as a bruiser AP for the jungle role.

Akali is SO HOTJan 17, 20192 votes

Supports that had burst and cc were also relevant in Seasons 3 and 4. Annie was pick/ban for over half a season. Tank supports were op a couple of seasons ago and then season 7 was the busted ardent meta and now we're back to burst and cc supports. I don't see the problem here.

Deez CritsJan 17, 20192 votes

Unfortunately the Elise went with relic shield and a very utility focused build. She also had the lowest damage in the entire game.

Just to be clear for anyone who stumbles upon the thread which is misleading in retrospect.

BestPudgeNAJan 18, 20192 votes

Engage supports have ALWAYS been a thing. Being a "support" doesn't mean you follow the ADC around the whole game and carrying his jockstrap Being a support means you do, things on a low economy that supports your team winning the game. This includes but isn't limited to CC, tanking, utility abilities, damage.

JJI744Jan 18, 20192 votes

Look, much as I would like to be a professional player, I am not. I am pretty sure your not either. In fact I am quite certain 99.9% of all players are not pro players. And for the vast majority of the playerbase the enchanter supports are in quite a good position. Sona, Janna, Nami, and Zilean are all performing rather above the curve.

ZaneShadowJan 18, 20191 votes

I mean, season 7 was ardent censor Meta, not too long ago.

FéliXXXJan 18, 20191 votes

its not like that supports roll has been getting better over the years but that kr team have their own meta the can flex pick even their coach xD

NevrankroatonJan 18, 20191 votes

You not gonna talk about tham kench support on SKT and rakan?

<Removed by Moderation>

Gragas support exist since S7 and even fucking S6, the fuck you try to make it like the role changed. Gragas was always an issue and Elise always have been able to do this.

ModJikkerJan 18, 20191 votes

Hey,

I removed an unnecessary comment that only inflames and doesn't add to your points. Remember to always be respectful of others when you post even if you disagree with their position.

[poppy-wink]