Champs that will need compensation because of massive fervor nerfs

FalconPawwwwnch·Oct 31, 2016·22 votes·2,140 views

Yi Shyvana Jax Xin zhao

Some ideas:

Give Jax a bonus AD ratio on either empower or ult proc Give Shyvana's ultimate an AD ratio

68 Comments

GULAG 4 UOct 31, 20168 votes

Fervor crits now so crit yi is better than ever (onhit and tanky builds are dicked)

FalconPawwwwnchOct 31, 20166 votes

On hit and tanky is the only way Yi is even decent

resumedOct 31, 201612 votes

and nothing of value was lost

GULAG 4 UOct 31, 20166 votes

yes because nerf a champion that already isn't good. thanks.

Sona x RubickOct 31, 20162 votes

are you dumb?

yi was already trash

resumedOct 31, 20161 votes

are you dumb?

i want yi to be garbage

Sona x RubickOct 31, 20163 votes

{quoted}

i want

l0l so you decided by yourself that nothing was lost in value

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

hsumis1oveOct 31, 20161 votes

Hmm take that argument to aKa Silencee he has like 5/10 accounts on the top ten master yi worlds list and he runs full crit.

GULAG 4 UOct 31, 20161 votes

he also gets perma banned nonstop because he's toxic af too xD

Spicy RiceOct 31, 20161 votes

Is this the second coming of Tyler1?

GULAG 4 UOct 31, 20161 votes

He's basically a master yi tyler1, so yeah

PermabannedGarenOct 31, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=B34STLY G4M3R,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KsxbTdYY,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2016-10-31T01:24:32.902+0000)

Hmm take that argument to aKa Silencee he has like 5/10 accounts on the top ten master yi worlds list and he runs full crit.

He also plays against players far below his level. He's a high diamond player at worst, and beats up on plats and low diamonds.

And once again, the whole "duos with a Lulu to enable him to do anything" aspect is a pretty big deal.

LankPantsOct 31, 20161 votes

That's odd because I watch Cowsep's stream and he constantly says that crit Yi is currently better than on hit.

Honestly though whether or not the keystone is good on Yi isn't that important, because the jungle respawn changes will kill him either way.

PermabannedGarenOct 31, 20161 votes

{quoted}

That's odd because I watch Cowsep's stream and he constantly says that crit Yi is currently better than on hit.

Honestly though whether or not the keystone is good on Yi isn't that important, because the jungle respawn changes will kill him either way.

Is that so?

Because I constantly see Cowsep say that crit Yi is inferior to on-hit Yi.

Got a source for that?

PermabannedGarenOct 31, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Fervor crits now so crit yi is better than ever (onhit and tanky builds are dicked)

Crit Yi is meme garbage.

Don't believe the Silencee hype. When that guy stopped duo'ing with a Lulu top player he tanked from diamond to plat.

A champion can do incredible damage, but it doesn't matter if they are trivially easy to shut down.

GULAG 4 UOct 31, 20161 votes

That's why I've been going for tankier crit builds, mostlyy ruined king into phantom dancer, Ie, FM, Ga.

Crit is in the past. Too much cc in the game for crit yisus to be good again.

Akali is SO HOTOct 31, 20164 votes

Don't forget all of the ranged champions that use it too :^)

Irelia BotOct 31, 20163 votes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umDr0mPuyQc

Sahn UzalOct 31, 20161 votes

I know you're trolling and I STILL want to downvote you....

The Yetii RiderOct 31, 20163 votes

Why will Yi need compensation? Yi gains true damage on-hit based on his raw AD. Fervor is probably going to be better on him since it gives him a good amount of AD (which, incidentally, is damage you deal on-hit) and true damage for Wuju Style.

PermabannedGarenOct 31, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KsxbTdYY,comment-id=0012,timestamp=2016-10-31T16:30:26.784+0000)

Why will Yi need compensation? Yi gains true damage on-hit based on his raw AD. Fervor is probably going to be better on him since it gives him a good amount of AD (which, incidentally, is damage you deal on-hit) and true damage for Wuju Style.

A whole 15 true damage.

For that true damage to be worth the lost 58 physical damage, the enemy would need to be able to reduce its damage by more than 75% (300 armour does this). If the Yi gets black cleaver (the best armour penetration on-hit item for him) and took battering blows, the enemy would need to have 417 armour. So if my calculations are correct, this is just a straight nerf unless he's fighting Malphite, lol.

The Yetii RiderOct 31, 20161 votes

If he only auto attacks, yes. He also gets to crit, Alpha Strike with it, and the bonus AD increases his total AD with the passive on Wuju Style as well.

PermabannedGarenOct 31, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KsxbTdYY,comment-id=001200000000,timestamp=2016-10-31T23:27:58.385+0000)

If he only auto attacks, yes. He also gets to crit, Alpha Strike with it, and the bonus AD increases his total AD with the passive on Wuju Style as well.

Crit? Crit Yi is trivially easy to shut down. While this change is technically speaking a buff to crit Yi, crit Yi is kind of a shit sandwich.

Alpha Strike actually costs you DPS late game.

The passive of Wuju style increase from the mastery would only be six AD, so I guess it would ultimately be more like 16.5 extra true damage. My numbers are still basically accurate I think. Barring super high armour targets old fervor was better for an on-hit build.

The Yetii RiderNov 1, 20161 votes

On-hit Yi probably won't function in the new jungle. Xypherous said their policy was to suppress farming junglers and the new camp respawns reflect that.

Without Bloodrazor on hit Yi isn't good. Assuming the combination of Fervor changes and respawn times forces Yi out of the jungle, you build crit on lane Yi.

PermabannedGarenNov 1, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KsxbTdYY,comment-id=00120000000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-01T00:47:45.315+0000)

On-hit Yi probably won't function in the new jungle. Xypherous said their policy was to suppress farming junglers and the new camp respawns reflect that.

Without Bloodrazor on hit Yi isn't good. Assuming the combination of Fervor changes and respawn times forces Yi out of the jungle, you build crit on lane Yi.

So basically what you're saying is "You can't play Master Yi anymore".

Yes, I'm aware that Xypherous is a stupid mouth-breathing idiot who is forcing a type of jungler that isn't even good right now out of the game entirely. What's your point?

Crit Yi isn't going to suddenly be good, and crit lane Yi isn't going to suddenly be good either.

He lanes like shit and crit Yi is laughably easy to counter by anyone competent.

The Yetii RiderNov 1, 20161 votes

Yi's ganks are also pretty sub par, so without being able to constantly farm the jungle he's really not going to function there.

You can play Master Yi mid. The new Tear of the Goddess isn't terrible on Yi, and Muramana gives him some decent power and sustain. Then you just go IE Shiv and you're golden.

PermabannedGarenNov 1, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KsxbTdYY,comment-id=0012000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-01T05:51:03.198+0000)

Yi's ganks are also pretty sub par, so without being able to constantly farm the jungle he's really not going to function there.

No shit? I literally just said that. I'm aware that the stupid morons at Riot are forcing Yi out of the jungle with their dumbass changes.

You can play Master Yi mid. The new Tear of the Goddess isn't terrible on Yi, and Muramana gives him some decent power and sustain. Then you just go IE Shiv and you're golden.

"Dude just go tear of the goddess" oh my God I'm dying lmao.

And no, that build is trash. You've spent a whole bag of gold on a bunch of damage items without any defense, and now you get to enjoy the fun of being blown up every time you go into a team fight, while also possibly depriving your team of substantial magic damage and wave clear by going mid.

No, Yi mid isn't meta for a reason. Taking him from the jungle is going to kill him, as will the fervor changes.

Crit Yi is meme garbage, and on-hit is now being killed with the nerfs to fervor.

The Yetii RiderNov 1, 20161 votes

Substantial magic damage, I can understand.

But every champion that is a decent split pusher has good wave clear. Yi is no exception. You're not losing out by taking the champion who slices through 4 minions and then cleans up the rest with Stattik Shiv as your mid laner.

Here's a suggested build after Yi jungle stops being a thing: item 1055 item 2003 item 3070 item 3006 item 3004 item 3087 item 3153 item 3031 item 3046

PermabannedGarenNov 2, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KsxbTdYY,comment-id=001200000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-01T23:36:03.392+0000)

Substantial magic damage, I can understand.

But every champion that is a decent split pusher has good wave clear. Yi is no exception. You're not losing out by taking the champion who slices through 4 minions and then cleans up the rest with Stattik Shiv as your mid laner.

Here's a suggested build after Yi jungle stops being a thing:

All right, so you don't appear to understand what I mean by "wave clear".

I don't mean a champion who can clear a wave. Any AD champion who builds a ravenous hydra can do that.

I mean a champion who can safely clear a wave without putting themselves at risk of the enemy team during a siege.

A mage like Ahri, Vel'koz, Syndra, or Viktor can chunk and destroy waves from 800+ units away using AOE spells.

Master Yi has to Q onto the wave and auto attack it. This uses up his sole means of avoiding CC, and if he is stunned or rooted under a turret he becomes very easy to kill.

No, that build is literal hot garbage. I'd prefer it if someone who doesn't really play Yi or know much about him didn't try to tell me how to play him.

It's not that that build doesn't do damage. You have to go out of your way to not do damage as Master Yi.

It's that it has no survivability. The only thing keeping you alive is the DR from PD and the lifesteal from BotRK.

You're trivially easy to shut down in team fights. Hell, it also doesn't actually do as much damage as the Silencee build would.

item 3031 item 3046 item 3072 item 3087 item 3036 item 3139 or item 3156

Don't get me wrong, this build isn't "good". You're still very easy to pop unless you have a Lulu working overtime to keep you alive, but this build has both far higher DPS and burst, as well as more survivability. Which means it is objectively better.

Also, I'm pretty sure that build goes over the attack speed cap if your runes have 29% attack speed in them (like they should).

WoonStruckOct 31, 20162 votes

Irelia

Skarners that prefer fervor for whatever reason (might become more common with SotA MIA)

The asshole Kennens/Kayles that take it just so they can abuse melee early game.

FalconPawwwwnchOct 31, 20162 votes

Irelia has a 2.8 bonus AD ratio on her ultimate, 4.0 in total

So she won't be hit nearly as hard

Shadow HazardOct 31, 20163 votes

That would make sense if irelia generally built AD but she doesn't. Most of irelia's damage comes from sheen+AA, the ultimate will really only be stronger if she fully stacks the new fervor ahead and that is a long time for a champ that has no attack speed steroids. This change is a hit to every champ who's damage was dominantly from on hits. Since they almost always went for fervor also.

Irelia BotOct 31, 20162 votes

It is a fine line but I don't think this change is going to kill Irelia.

It is going to kill some of the others while already down though.

Shadow HazardOct 31, 20161 votes

yes technically she is just doing okay, while there are others who are in a worse state that will be hit even harder, but I think she will still also be one of the champs who will be put into an unhealthily bad state from the fervor change. While say someone like xin for example with a guaranteed crit in his kit would be more of a fine line champ in that they can go either way with this change.

SithesisLordOct 31, 20162 votes

Kayles that take it just so they can abuse melee early game.

It´s legit the only keystone Kayle can take unless she's planning to max Q first.

WoonStruckOct 31, 20161 votes

And how often is Kayle picked when it isn't specifically to bully someone with less range or a weaker early game?

Shadow HazardOct 31, 20164 votes

considering the state that kayle is in, this change is more likely to put her in a statistically healthy spot than some of the others.

SithesisLordOct 31, 20162 votes

Going by statistics, she is in a healthy spot. Bloated win rate due to low pick and ban rates, since only her mains and OTPs play her and unsurprisingly do well.

So what she's been over 50% winrates throughout the season. For the most part, so has Pantheon, and yet no one complains about his equally as unhealthy kit.

It will be a straight nerf to her, but it doesn´t mean she´ll stop going Fervor, especially with the new masteries coming.

Shadow HazardOct 31, 20161 votes

Unlike panth, kayle has been more consistent in sitting at the top 5 of win rate in their role.

PermabannedGarenOct 31, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Going by statistics, she is in a healthy spot. Bloated win rate due to low pick and ban rates, since only her mains and OTPs play her and unsurprisingly do well.

So what she's been over 50% winrates throughout the season. For the most part, so has Pantheon, and yet no one complains about his equally as unhealthy kit.

It will be a straight nerf to her, but it doesn´t mean she´ll stop going Fervor, especially with the new masteries coming.

http://champion.gg/champion/Kayle/Top

The average Kayle top player has a below average amount of experience on the champion for a top laner.

"Only her mains and OTPs" lol.

Her pick rate also isn't particularly low, and honestly? She's largely not picked very often because she is suuuuuuper boring to play, IMHO.

BremerdanGorstOct 31, 20162 votes

To be fair, Xin Zhao does crit every 3 hits, so he might not be as hurt as the others.

DrakylonOct 31, 20161 votes

On pure autoattackers, the changes to Fervor of Battle result in a massive 58 damage loss per hit at max stacks. On the flip side, it can now crit and increases damage of abilities that scale off of AD.

Not that that helps champions like Shyvana, Skarner and Jax.

Erractic EickOct 31, 20161 votes

Well, let me put it this way. As Jax, once I hit level 18, between my passive, my usual build, and Guinsoo's, I typically can hit the attack speed ceiling. And this will cost me 58 damage per auto attack. Even more if we acknowledge that with Guinsoo's will trigger that on hit damage twice.

Overall, I can proc the Guinsoo once per second. That means I can utilize Fervor three and a half times per second, once I hit the attack speed cap, say, in a teamfight. If we multiply 58 by 3.5, we receive a total of 203 damage per second lost.

Now, as a Jax main, that is significant. At level 18, when I have to show up for a team fight, I need a high output of damage. Jax Has two survivability methods in his kit: resistances, and a short dodge. Otherwise, he needs to kill things to survive a team fight. And to kill things, he need to not be CCed, so he can use his passive. And to not be CCed, he needs to kill tanks. Riot knows this, and has thus compensated him by giving him the unique ability to be built as a hyper carry in terms of damage output. Fervor effectively gives me 25% more attack damage per second. That is what melts tanks and makes me remotely relevant in a team fight.

Jax does not build critical strike, nor should he. Jax is designed to auto attack faster than anyone, trigger an ungodly amount of on-hits, deal ridiculous amount of magic damage as well, and eat your team if you don't target him. I don't care if Fervor can strike critically now. You don't find that in Jax's build. He needs stacking power.

I can't speak for Skarner or Shyvana, but I do know that this will have a significant effect on Jax, and I do anticipate him needing a buff.

TrestaniOct 31, 20161 votes

How the fuck do you call yourself a jax main and build guinsoos, that item is fucking terrible

Erractic EickNov 2, 20161 votes

It still works on Jax. Not as well as it used to, but it's still viable. And plus, you have to admit, between Grandmaster's Might, Spellblade, and Empower, dealing 1000+ damage for a single autoattack is pretty cool.

Especially when you get almost two more in that same second.

Big LincolnOct 31, 20161 votes

master yi's true damage should crit, this would help bring him back

PermabannedGarenOct 31, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KsxbTdYY,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2016-10-31T06:10:27.188+0000)

master yi's true damage should crit, this would help bring him back

Hahah, what the fuck that would be so broken, holy shit God no.

Silencee's general crit Yi build (assuming no AD in runes, most Yis don't take AD but idk what he takes) with elixir does 132.5 true damage per auto attack.

If he crit with IE it would be 331 true damage every time he crit.

On a champion who has an attack speed with highlander of like 2.3 with this build.

So he'd potentially do 762 true damage per second.

On top of the really high physical damage he does.

Shit would be dumb lol.

Big LincolnOct 31, 20161 votes

i don't see the problem, he is supposed to do damage :)

xxxDogmanxxxOct 31, 20161 votes

Remember when Riot tried to buff Xin Zhao in patch 6.3 and the boards went crazy? The very next patch, they destroyed his AS, his attack animation, and his AP scaling, as well as removed the crit interaction and AS from Warlord's Bloodlust. Then five patches afterward, they nuked his two core items for good measure. Xin dropped from 52% win rate to somewhere around 41% win rate and is only now just climbing back to 48-49% win rate. At this point, I'm seriously scared of what Riot's gonna do to the guy afterwards if they decide to give him a decent buff again.

MunchCrunchLunchOct 31, 20162 votes

tbh after those buffs he was crazy. he could solo baron as it spawned. but he was balanced before those buffs and they just like to change what isn't broken