Support items should give XP when in the jungle/river

JavelinJoe·Mar 26, 2017·44 votes·1,866 views

I find that if I am roaming to help out mid or something, I always end up falling so far behind in level that come mid game-late game I am 2-3 levels under everyone else. You can't win a game when you are level 9 and everyone else in the entire game is around 11-12. And all simply because you roamed a few times. They could have even been productive. Clearing wards, placing wards, pressuring lane, assisting in a gank, taking a tower, etc... But because of it, you lose so much XP and just fall behind. So what if support items ( and their build paths) gave some XP while inside the jungle/river? that way you do not completely fall too far behind on what may have been a good roam.

28 Comments

invisiblecat1Mar 26, 20179 votes

Although this is an issue, Ivern can easily abuse it and become incredibly over leveled

Hyrum GraffMar 26, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Although this is an issue, can easily abuse it and become incredibly over leveled

While true, he couldn't start a support item or he'd lose out on bonus xp from the jungle item. Also he could be nerfed. Also he is a supportive champ, so I don't think it's surprising or bad that he'd synnergize with supportive items.

JavelinJoeMar 26, 20172 votes

Maybe it could only apply if you do not have a smite required jungle item?

BananaSlayerAMOMar 26, 20178 votes

A great concept, but then there'd be less incentive to go back to lane as a support since you'd basically be sapping your ADC's XP.

Hyrum GraffMar 26, 20172 votes

{quoted}

A great concept, but then there'd be less incentive to go back to lane as a support since you'd basically be sapping your ADC's XP.

Minus the xp they lose from dying to the enemy 2v1 (or 3v1 if the jungler comes), of course.

That is to say, I don't think we have to worry about supports permanently leaving lane, and I don't think encouraging roaming is necessarily a bad idea.

TeCoolMageMar 26, 20171 votes

It's much more complicated than that, though.

The exp passive gives a huge exp advantage to the side that exploits it better.

2v1 lanes won't discourage supports from leaving, it'll just encourage ADCs to pick ezreal or something super safe.

It's the same reason why tanks/fighters like Rammus or Malphite don't insta counterpick mid assassins.

Hyrum GraffMar 26, 20172 votes

{quoted}

It's much more complicated than that, though.

The exp passive gives a huge exp advantage to the side that exploits it better.

2v1 lanes won't discourage supports from leaving, it'll just encourage ADCs to pick ezreal or something super safe.

It's the same reason why tanks/fighters like Rammus or Malphite don't insta counterpick mid assassins.

Sure, but even Ezreal isn't going to survive a lvl 6 lucian / naut dive.

TeCoolMageMar 27, 20171 votes

But then you're sacrificing the support's map pressure to avoid that risk. If losing lane mattered that much, top lane would also be 2v2 and there'd be no jungle, since top lane would lose a 2v1 whenever someone didn't go duo top. If top laners don't lose 2v1s, just bring them bot lane and let the ADC go top.

Whenever a lane can take advantage of solo lane exp without sacrificing EXP/Gold elsewhere, it becomes the main strat and anything else becomes a cheese strat. Taking 2 people mid to zone out a hyperscaling mid laner is cheese, the 1-1-2-jg setup is inherently better due to better pressure on first tower blood and dragon + jungler pressure, but yes the 2v1 mid lane WILL lose lane if they're bad early game.

Hyrum GraffMar 27, 20171 votes

{quoted}

But then you're sacrificing the support's map pressure to avoid that risk. If losing lane mattered that much, top lane would also be 2v2 and there'd be no jungle, since top lane would lose a 2v1 whenever someone didn't go duo top. If top laners don't lose 2v1s, just bring them bot lane and let the ADC go top.

Reasonable argument, but I'm still not convinced. Having a jungler at all makes a huge difference in map pressure. Having a jungler and a roaming support, maybe not quite the same difference from just a jungler.

Jungling is also about making use of the 4th source of income, which roaming supports wouldn't have.

Whenever a lane can take advantage of solo lane exp without sacrificing EXP/Gold elsewhere, it becomes the main strat and anything else becomes a cheese strat. Taking 2 people mid to zone out a hyperscaling mid laner is cheese, the 1-1-2-jg setup is inherently better due to better pressure on first tower blood and dragon + jungler pressure, but yes the 2v1 mid lane WILL lose lane if they're bad early game.

I suspect we'd get a 121j meta, since mid is easier to roam from. Also easier to shove and reset the wave to make roaming safe. Also better to have two people warding mid than two warding bot. Supports would lane, and also roam a lot. Mid is hard to get 2v2 kills in so we'd see a lot of hyper carries.

SaevumMar 26, 20174 votes

The other option is to gain extra experience with an item similar to the Gold Coin Amulet.

"Gain '20% extra' experience each time an ally champion kills a minion".

notice me Sin piMar 26, 20171 votes

the reason we send adcs bot lane isnt because they need supports to lane, but because they do not scale with level as much as other roles that rely significantly on base stats to be relevent.

Making an item that boosts exp might end up being abused by non-supports for level advantage by other roles..

I like the idea but it needs more limiting conditions (something like: +20% exp doesnt apply for 10sec after last-hitting a minion) to not be abused however

JavelinJoeMar 27, 20171 votes

well this would only apply to being inside the jungle/river, but there defiantly could be some limiters for the non-support roles.

Chembaron YamadaMar 26, 20173 votes

I think all that will happen is that junglers start to grab that item Early (maybe after first clear) to almost permanently improve their XP. You would have to put a limiter on it to prevent that, for example you won't get XP for x seconds if you kill a jungle creep.

JavelinJoeMar 26, 20172 votes

Maybe make it so that if you have smite, it does not allow you to grab them. Kinda like an inverse jungle item.

SorrowJoyMar 26, 20172 votes

{quoted}

I think all that will happen is that junglers start to grab that item Early (maybe after first clear) to almost permanently improve their XP. You would have to put a limiter on it to prevent that, for example you won't get XP for x seconds if you kill a jungle creep.

There could be a restriction placed then that you cannot buy support items when you have smite, sort of like how the jungle items work.

SilverjustMar 26, 20173 votes

My Idea was, they should give xp while near someone with higer xp, so it can't really be abused by sololaners. when you roam or ward you loose xp, but because of this passive it does not matter, because when you go back to you lane to the adc it starts giving you xp back until you are the same lvl like the adc

FilDaFunkMar 26, 20172 votes

XP for wards killed/placed in support items.

AcidTheWarlockMar 26, 20172 votes

As a support player I support this

EedatMar 26, 20172 votes

Jungle main here. I can say I would straight up abuse the shit out of these items js

Skins ProjectMar 26, 20171 votes

YESS!! Buff my Bard Jungle! :D

KhadaverMar 26, 20171 votes

If it were to happen they should find a way to limit junglers getting it, due to mostly ivern.

Reaper SorakaMar 26, 20171 votes

Riot is the zenith of throwing things at the wall to see if they stick. They're trying, but remember, everything they do is just an experiment.

We do have an exp bonus if we fall one entire level behind at the moment, it wasn't there before, and it was there before that.

reiko57Mar 27, 20171 votes

maybe on the item 2301 item 2302 item 2303 tier item, but putting that on those cheap items would be a bad idea.

TerchioMar 27, 20171 votes

What is this roam you speak of? Supports can't roam from their carry, that's madness. You get banned for this kinda stuff. Singed Nunu

FoamingStuffMar 27, 20171 votes

I don't really know how and if it's a problem that should be fixed, but as a support player, I must admit that being 3 levels behind EVERYONE pretty much the entire game is not very fun