Yorick is the first champion that makes me feel like ranks in his abilities do nothing.

Gosh Darn··58 votes·4,713 views

**Disclaimer: Champion level and ability rank are two different things so be careful not to mix them up. **

He gains a maximum of 100 base physical damage and 2 seconds off CD from rank 5 Q vs rank 1 Q. The mana cost doesn't even budge. It's by far his most important ability and the reduced CD decreases slightly, but it's still a negligible change. BONUS PHYSICAL DAMAGE: 30 / 55 / 80 / 105 / 130 (+ 40% AD) COOLDOWN: 7 / 6.5 / 6 / 5.5 / 5

His W is the wall and while it probably has the biggest changes with rank from CD and wall health, it's just a wall.
COOLDOWN: 20 / 18 / 16 / 14 / 12 WALL HEALTH: 2 / 2 / 3 / 3 / 4

His E might be his best skill to max right now since it's base damage and CD changes waaaaay more than his Q does. What's odd is that the slow and MS steroid doesn't change at all with rank. It also only increases in damage if the 15% current health damage is less than the flat damage. MINIMUM MAGIC DAMAGE: 70 / 105 / 140 / 175 / 210 (+ 70% AP) COST: 50 / 55 / 60 / 65 / 70 MANA COOLDOWN: 12 / 11 / 10 / 9 / 8

So his most important ability scales with his level, not rank. His E is probably the best skill to rank up first since the base damage and CD changes quite a bit, but this seems odd since Yorick was supposed to shift away from an AD caster to a necromancer juggernaut, and yet this playstyle will still have him poking with a ranged ability. His W has the biggest changes with rank, but it's still not the best to rank up first. It's like being Anivia and your wall is the only ability that really gains much from rank ups. It feels awful.

Could we give him scaling AD ratios, decreasing mana cost with rank, or scaling effects on his E (slow + MS)? Right now it feels like I can max any ability in any order and nothing changes at all. I like level scaling but I think it didn't quite hit the mark on Yorick because he basically doesn't scale with rank. This isn't about balance it's about ranks in abilities feeling absolutely worthless.

EDIT: Since nearly everyone wants to go off-topic and make this into an argument about how viable he is or how strong his abilities are, I guess I have to spell it out.** This thread is about his scaling with rank being pitiful.** His abilities are not weak, but his kit doesn't change much after 1 rank in a skill. His Q scales with level, his W is a wall, and his E scales with enemy hp. My point is that Yorick is the first champion that scales way too hard with level rather than rank. Other champions who scale hard with level such as Zyra and Garen find a nice balance between ability rank and champion level that Yorick does not have. It gives players the feeling that the rank-up given with each level is pointless.

EDIT 2: Even after I begged everyone to stop going off-topic, people are still making comments about how good/bad Yorick is, item builds, and more unrelated crap. Please help me downvote these people and PLEASE KEEP IT ON TOPIC. THIS IS SOLELY ABOUT YORICK'S LEVEL/RANK SCALING BEING POORLY BALANCED. IF YOU WISH TO DISCUSS OTHER THINGS ABOUT YORICK PLEASE MAKE YOUR OWN THREAD.

80 Comments

RisenDarkKnight18 votes

Actually the poke damage of E doesn't increase with rank (unless they are low HP already). It does 15% current hp at all ranks, the minimum damage only matters if it would be more than the 15%(like mundo cleaver).

So really the only major benefit from ranking up is W and that only increases at rank 3 and rank 5, ranks 2 and 4 do very little.

I actualy max Q first (2 seconds lower cooldown helps a good amount), put 3 points in W so it has 3 health instead of 2, then max E for lower cooldown.

I think Q max is better than E max because Q is only 25 mana while E scales up in mana with rank without doing more damage to full health targets. E max second over points in W may be better in some matchups if the cage isn't useful, so getting a lower cooldown on E might be better.

I do agree with your overall point that he doesn't get much from ranking up his abilities (except ulti obv).

Rouwhorst1 votes

The poke damage of his E still increases when you level up the ability. Sure, only when you are at low health, but how low is low? When the 15% is lower than the flat damage. That is at: 467 / 700 / 933 / 1167 / 1400 Those values are at level: 1 / 3 / 5/ 7 / 9 At levels 1-9 Yorick's health goes from 580 to 1254. So as you can see more often than not, even when at full health, you will deal the flat damage.

RisenDarkKnight1 votes

It does depend a bit on the matchup, because many top laners buy HP on their first back. Many top laners are tanks and Sunfire Cape/Bami's cinder first is not uncommon, as is Titanic hydra rush.

Also some top champs have very good health regen like Vlad, Mundo, and Garen. All of whom will tend to sit in the top half of their health bar.

Sure you're right that the minimum damage will come into play a lot against people that don't' have sustain or are not building any health, but nearly all top laners do one or the other. Pretty much everyone has sustain or itemizes for it early.

Also, if you don't have any mana sustain in your build, you might do less poke over time since the mana cost of E goes up in rank.

KayleeT8 votes

His numbers need some serious work. He's garbage mid to late game unless you build full tank, and his base stats need buffs too

OneMustFall19 votes

{quoted}

His numbers need some serious work. He's garbage mid to late game unless you build full tank, and his base stats need buffs too

Completely false. He does lots of damage with Triforce and with Gunblade you can heal up any damage done to very quickly. I would say he's at his strongest mid game and late game he becomes almost unkillable as a Bruiser.

Guy Fox Teemo3 votes

He's also incredibly squishy and easy to kite.... If you go brusier.

Drahcir3 votes

that just sounds like Pre-Rework Yorick, with no resurrection ability.

jama6551 votes

no more mana mune? i cant seem to make himwork

OneMustFall1 votes

{quoted}

no more mana mune? i cant seem to make himwork

Correct. You don't need Manamune at all.

Build I go with right now...

item 3078 item 3047 item 3146 item 3065 item 3068 item 3053

Gives you pretty everything you could want. Damage, tankiness, split pushing and lifesteal.

adidas6 votes

The new Yorick is pretty shit. He wont see competitive play. I promise

JackMcSnipeyz2 votes

{quoted}

The new Yorick is pretty shit. He wont see competitive play. I promise

Nothing wrong with that, not every champion has to be picked in lcs in order to be viable/fun to play. Also when jhin was released people said he was low tier adc and will never be played competitively- well what do you know...

Tychusfindlay9195 votes

{quoted}

Nothing wrong with that, not every champion has to be picked in lcs in order to be viable/fun to play. Also when jhin was released people said he was low tier adc and will never be played competitively- well what do you know...

Jhin got base stat buffs across the board IIRC before he got popular.

Jhin UItd JFK4 votes

{quoted}

Jhin got base stat buffs across the board IIRC before he got popular.

Patch 6.4-

Jhin HP regen per second increased to 1.2 from 1.1 HP regen per second growth increased to 0.11 from .1 Movement Speed increased to 330 from 325

Patch 6.7-

Jhin Dancing Grenade (Q) Mana cost increased to 40/45/50/55/60 from 30/35/40/45/50 Damage reduced to 50/75/100/125/150 from 60/85/110/135/160 Captive Audience (E) mana cost reduced to 30/35/40/45/50 from 40/45/50/55/60

He's popular in pro play because pros realized that he shines during this botlane meta, being able to easily execute squishy supports that are meta and then the ADC afterwards.

That and 4 man bot ganks are 10x easier when Jhin can slow you by 80% from a mile away. And of course, when he does this it's very "flashy" to watch, even though it's very slow.

RavenMagus1 votes

He's popular in pro play because pros realized that he shines during this botlane meta, being able to easily execute squishy supports that are meta and then the ADC afterwards.

Pro play is also heavily about whoever can hard engage (or hard disengage) the most, and Jhin is very good at doing that with his insanely long range heavy slows.

bony whimsark1 votes

Isn't that how all of the meta champs usually sneak their way in there? (Execptions to gragas and rek/sai) :P

Spoofghoul12 votes

actually i think he might

he has incredibly potent objective controll

his wall is an uncleansable/blackshieldable/bodyblockable cc tool Its excellent to peel with aswell

yorick can duel almost everyone in the game when built full tank this makes him an excellent splitpusher and building full tank is one of ht eleast risky ways to play league

his maiden can provide map pressure if needed thoug you give up alot of your damage-dueling power if you do so

Yorick provides enough utility and objective controll to be a viable competetive pick, kind of like reksai/gragas

Meanwhile he is an excellent duelist even as full tank thanks to maiden

he is also a good laner into almost every melee matchup because of his good sustain and good pushing power allowing for nice wavecontroll

DeathBot6662 votes

I will love if he gets some LCS time. Not only is it a new champ in it but its Yorick.

Yorick.

The guy who used to be my go-to "Is that the new champion?" joke...

jama6553 votes

nerick you mean/ yorick was in the lcs a couple times as jung/supp

WarlockLaw2 votes

pretty sure he was also a top laner a few times to combo with Cass after her last rework, basically just as a walking revive

Guy Fox Teemo3 votes

His wall is insane short range, easy to avoid, and can be broken with two autos.

Not really, he lacks damage if his ult isn't up and his little minons are easy to avoid, if he misses his E he's fucked and loses the trade almost 100% of the time.

Meh sort of, the maiden takes priority over minons when the tower hits, so it'll die in 1 - 3 hits. But I suppose

Well he gets shit on by Darius or Anyone who can bully him over and over with decent sustain.

LordGeovanni1 votes

his wall should at least be longer range for how slow it is to rise or faster for how short ranged it is same with his e. why the fuk champions already range impaired also get slower harder to hit less damageing abilites than initially ranged champions

CerealBoxOfDoom4 votes

What if I told you that not every champ is designed to scale that well with levels.

Gosh Darn4 votes

Do you mean rank? Name one champion that has all 3 basic abilities barely budge with rank-ups. Besides, that's just proving my point. Yorick is entirely dependent on level scaling. It just feels bad when you've got 12 levels worth of rank-ups that feel worthless.

CerealBoxOfDoom1 votes

most adcs are like that. Same with supports.

JSTIN82 votes

Ezreal Janna Leona Jinx MissFortune TahmKench Vayne Tristana

CerealBoxOfDoom1 votes

Ezreal

abnormal ability centric adc

Jinx

Try her bruiser build

Her thing is scaling, I guess her Q feels good? But a lot of that doesn't come just from leveling. Do you really notice much difference? I don't, not till I get items.

Janna

What, cooldowns?

Leona

Not sure why this one is here. She seems to do pretty much the same thing. People used to just say to level as needed, didn't even matter.

MissFortune

Does MF feel different to you when you level anything? I guess if you crit and kill and happen to ever hit anything behind the target you'll see something interesting. But for the most part its not really all that big a difference until you get items

TahmKench

don't play him, but I bet you don't feel too hot without items compared to Volibear or Braum

Vayne

another one I don't understand. Or are you one of those people who thinks her W does tons of damage on its own?

Tristana

Trist gets more than most out of leveling abilities. Probably more than ezreal

JSTIN81 votes

Vayne Tumble CDs and AD scaling are super important, and while i will confess to not playing ADC as a role as much as anything else, when I level my ult up as MF, or my Q and W, i feel the power. Especially with that second hit on q. CDs are important on Janna, as any support, as they are the reason you exist in a team comp. More levels into E and W, more mobility more uptime on your sheild bigger AD Bonuses for your ADC. Kinda in the same vein as Soraka. Leona is worthless while her CDs are down other than being a basic meatsheild, so having reduced CDs on her Q and E are big. Jinx admittedly has the weakest claim in the sense that her biggest feel good level ups are in her Q, which while it does scale really good with levels being put into it, does need items to be effective.

CerealBoxOfDoom1 votes

When I play MF unless I'm fed as shit I can hardly tell the difference between leveling W and Q in most situations.

JSTIN81 votes

Anyway the main point of this was to show just how poorly yorick scales with with levels as honestly after i have all four of my abilities the only thing i feel as i level it up is my Q, everything else just doenst feel like it imporoves and feels like empty levels. I would like to see this fixed overall even if it means we shake up how he scales in game because getting spikes at 13 and 18 should be a thing, and it is a thing for every other juggernaught, fighter, and tank in the game.

CerealBoxOfDoom1 votes

I want to buy him just to rush W and cockblock people from stuff over and over. That ability is such bullshit lol

crippler381 votes

blitzcrank, I barely notice any change when I level his skills.

EDIT: I could just be bad but him and ali I rarely notice anything no matter my skill max, I'd say same with thresh but ya know I think flay bonus damage might be doing it enough.

J Eevo7 votes

Blitz has his damage frontloaded onto Q and R, but they still get way more than yorick does.

You'd feel it if you went AP blitz, QR can oneshot people.

OneMustFall2 votes

I don't get how you don't realize the damage spike he gets from his Q. That does insane damage once you finish TF and get 5 ranks. Perhaps you aren't realizing it because it's scaling against other champs building defensively but Q an ADC and see the power of the shovel.

Gosh Darn6 votes

I understand his Q is a tool to proc spellblade but that's besides the point and that's due to his high base AD, which just further proves my point that he scales with level, not rank.

None of this is about balance or damage or anything, it's about his rank-ups being extremely negligible. Perhaps you aren't realizing it because you didn't read the thread?

OneMustFall1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mr Poopybunghole,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KfgqpPFz,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2016-09-11T20:29:27.127+0000)

I understand his Q is a tool to proc spellblade but that's besides the point and that's due to his high base AD, which just further proves my point that he scales with level, not rank.

None of this is about balance or damage or anything, it's about his rank-ups being extremely negligible. Perhaps you aren't realizing it because you didn't read the thread?

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

That's the thing though, they aren't negligible. Compare it to Garen's Q. It's the exact same. I didn't mention balance at all but directly responded to your point at hand if you bothered to read my post instead of auto-react posting.

doombotMECHA4 votes

yes but the point is that damage from sheen/tf is based on items and base ad, NOT the ability itself getting better, outside of cooldowns.

Tychusfindlay9192 votes

You were talking about his Q negatively.

FYI it is the exact same damage and scaling as garen's q.

Lets talk garen buffs since hes in the gutter right now

Gosh Darn1 votes

His Q more than doubles duration from rank 1 to 5 and his other abilities still improve with rank much harder than Yorick, even though Garen also has level scaling on his E.

Tychusfindlay9192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mr Poopybunghole,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KfgqpPFz,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2016-09-11T23:55:08.536+0000)

His Q more than doubles duration from rank 1 to 5 and his other abilities still improve with rank much harder than Yorick, even though Garen also has level scaling on his E.

"duration"

The speed buff sure but the actual damage kind of sucks ass. I understand that isn't his main form of damage but still.

Gosh Darn2 votes

What point are you trying to make exactly? You chose one of the other champions with hard level-scaling to refute my complaint that Yorick scales too hard with level and not rank. Garen, Zyra, and many more scale with level but nobody scales with level so hard that their ability rank is largely pointless like Yorick does.

ModCaptainMårvelous1 votes

Garen's never getting buffs because anything he'd get for dia+ would instantly be overwritten because every rank beneath that can't deal with him.

LordGeovanni1 votes

garen's q doesnt need to be super op cause his e spins your face off. while yorick went from a 120% scaleing ability to a 40% scaleing ability while loseing 1 damageing ability and most of his healing and becomming way more conditional as to when he can even fight

Saianna1 votes

You should check Kindred and her wolf AOE.

After leveling this skill the only thing that changes is 20 more damage.

Bârd3 votes

20 more damage on each strike, though, and he has pretty good attack speed.

10Tickler2 votes

check Kindred

Who's that? Some new Champion? It sounds familiar, but since they removed the Heal from her W, I haven't seen her at all

Saianna1 votes

I didn't even know she had a heal..

It was more like fake life steal...'ish...passive

10Tickler2 votes

Whatever you want to call it.

Kindred was released as the First Ranged AD champion designed to Jungle.

Jungle's been getting tougher each season.

Then they took away the only reason she could jungle levels 1-3. Why even bother making her?

Saianna1 votes

I have nooooooooooo idea mate..

I wouldn't jungle with her anyways ;)

The Yetii Rider1 votes

His E MS originally scaled with rank on the PBE but it was changed. I imagine the reason for this was because the low speed boost at rank 1 made it feel bad to rank second, and his Q is what should be ranked first.

The CD fluctuation on his Q rank is, I believe, more important than you are giving it credit for. After all, Q is most important for Awakening, and so being able to stack graves as quickly as possible is important for pushing.

Meep Man3 votes

Leveling Q effectively reduces the cool down of Awakening by 1.5 seconds

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