Brilliant game design, no wonder player satisifaction is at an all time low.
How about next you make it so ADCs cant crit without red buff and infernal drakes?
k wìx33 votesI have to concede - I don't understand these balance changes at all.
AirKingNeo1 votesto stop mages from perma waveclearing mid
Though the issue is lost chapter and I don't know why they don't just nerf that. The other issue is Taliyah, Ryze, and Galio being so much better versions of TF.
INoble KnightI2 votes
Heckin Support5 votesto stop mages from perma waveclearing mid
Stop doing their job? Mages right now don't do much other than clear waves, maybe poke, and give utility. They need help. Mages should be a class that can also carry games, not just ADC's.
SmashinBob1 votesAre you saying you cant carry games as a mage?
Also i find the change refreshing, i do from time to time play mid mages or otherwise, and it annoys me when enemy midlaner lose the lane, or realizes he cant fight me cause he misses everything, and then he just shoves waves, its boring really, if you lose your lane you should defend and not just shove lane to avoid fight and stall.
Mizaya1 votesNonono, that's just one way of looking at it.
The way I see it, strong waveclear mids force an even lane since they don't have to interact with the enemy. This is already bad for snowball reliant champions. Then they also have free reign to spam gank bot lane (Think ASol and Taliyah especially). This accelerates game pace naturally (cause typically one team will be able to get first tower with all the ganks), which helps the ADC on their team.
I mean look at how LCS has changed. In S3/S4 it was normal for midlaners to actually duel each other in lane and now they never need to do that because it's become an unnecessary risk. Riot should promote interaction in lane.
CppL21 votesIn soloQ you dont get blue buff till like 20min ,so yea that shit is gonna be fun to play as a mage...
SooFr0sty11 votesGo to Korea and you can afk if you don't get 2nd blue and the jungler will be punished.
Don Lupus14 votesThe problem is how one-sided it is. They are super fast at hitting mages and their mana-ppols, but ignore bigger scale issues on much more problematic (AD) champs.
PhearBunny7 voteseh mages haven't had to manage mana at all since manaflow band. Its unhealthy that mages can spam spells and miss with no punishment of lost resource. I'm not saying ADCs are healthy by any stretch, but Mages do need to have their resource management adjusted.
And honestly I think theyre making it a priority over ADCs tunes because mage supports are becoming the dominant support role, which isn't supposed to really happen. But when Brand can freely spam his spells with no repurcussions to doing so, you may as well play him or whatever your mage of choice is.
LightIsMyPath24 votesSo if you make one rune overturned you fix the problem by nerfing an entire class. Of which like half is doing poorly. Legit.
SooFr0sty1 votesWho is doing poorly?
OHminus9 votes
ZackTheWaffleMan1 votesI think Zyra's mana only got buffed, which is nice.
RyzeTheSmurfMage4 votes Depends if you know how to play him. Same with Viktor. I agree with the rest.
Danjeng1 votesUgh the 60 mana E cost though. Haven't played him yet this patch, but I'm hesitant to burn through my mana after 3 waves.
SooFr0sty1 votesZiggs is niche. Sona is one of those, "one of these is not like the others". Ryze is getting reworked because of pro play. Vel koz is still strong just under played, same with Viktor.
I don't know about Syndra but I'm biased towards her because she's annoying, can miss everything then ult an adc and they dead.
OHminus1 votesZiggs is "niche" in the fact that he can both sling out spells and take turrets quickly, but he's simply outclassed by Xerath (for slinging out spells) and Jayce (on both fronts. lmao).
Sona - Sona is a mage/enchanter hybrid which is why I included her here. No one can argue that she's god awful to play atm, however.
Vel'koz/Viktor are strong when people know what to do with them, but the learning curve is punishing and I know first hand that Viktor runs out of mana really, really quickly and that building mana items (like tear) on VIktor isn't really an option because Viktor really needs to upgrade his hextech core and tear sets him 700g behind on that front.
Ryze is just a mess, but is one of the champions I would rather not see anyone on my team play.
Syndra is just overall weak atm and really only annoying on ARAM where she gets to take clarity and mana suddenly becomes a non-issue.
Zyra - I would really like to see some meaningful Zyra changes/buffs because right now, I only really like playing Zyra on ARAM where it becomes "do NOT enter this zone where I have 7 of my plants or else you'll die just like these minions". He midlane is largely non-interactive because she relies so much on an AI with -50 IQ to deal damage to her opponent. Q hitbox especially is dreadful - it really only feels like a way to proc your plants rather than an actual, damaging spell.
SooFr0sty1 votesHow do you classify sona as hybrid? She's just a support.
Mogarl1 votesI think it's definitely valid when she goes 
. Seeing as how she frequently builds damage items and can contribute significantly with her own damage later in the game I think it's reasonable to say she's a mage enchanter hybrid the same way you say Taric is a tank enchanter hybrid. Janna, Soraka, and Nami are just enchanters.
OHminus1 votesI beg to differ. "Support" is not a class type - mages and enchanters are. While Sona primarily goes bottom lane to support the marksman carry, she brings (or should bring) 2 things to the table:
So no. Sona's not a "support". She's a champion that has the qualities of both a mage and a support.
Dope Solo47 votes
Yes, lets have a discussion about resource management.
Sun Wu Ryuumoku6 votesits not an issue for you... Yasuo is perma ban in bronze.
NineTailedMystic19 votesYes, punish every Mage for Manaflow Band's sins, even when there were players who didn't take it and did fine.
Sun Wu Ryuumoku2 votestotaly unrelated... even without manaflow band, Mage can spam their spell after their first back.
NineTailedMystic7 votesUntil you upgraded out of Lost Chapter. Honestly, just gut Chapter over these changes.
Sun Wu Ryuumoku4 votesLost Chapter Gold cost :: 1100 >>> 1300* AP :: 25 >>> 35*
NineTailedMystic10 votesWhat about it? I'm saying gut the mana restore passive off of it, not the cost or AP.
Sun Wu Ryuumoku1 votesAh... yeah.
But just remember, cycle just started.
Votable Jester7 votesThe guy he replied to specifically mentioned manaflow band, so it was entirely relevant in that statement.
Also yes this has everything to do with manaflow band.
Feel Apathy6 votesNerf to waveclears so you don't have enough mana to fight or go for a roam -> less damage to players overall.
forums wanted less damage and more "lane presence" => Now you have it.
Leetri3 votesDidn't people also complain a lot that "there's no mana management in this game anymore, mages just spam spells without thinking"?
Feel Apathy1 votesDidn't people also complain a lot that "there's no mana management in this game anymore, mages just spam spells without thinking"?
Yes they did.
Spank the Fox1 votesDidn't people also complain a lot that "there's no mana management in this game anymore, mages just spam spells without thinking"?
boards doesn’t use logic
It Hertz When IP9 votesIt's almost like the boards are composed of different people with different opinions, instead of being a hivemind race of beings that share the same brain.
MuffledGarbage6 votesyou're using the boards rn...
so you're part of the boards...
so that means you aren't using logic [slayer-pantheon-rainbows]
FurriesAreHot1 votesUsually boards says they want something to happen, it happens in a while, then they backpedal saying its the death of league of legends and that they arent playing anymore.
Votable Jester2 votesThis doesn't actually decrease damage though, just decreases fighting. Mages will now just devote all their mana to waveclear and not bother even harassing because then you'll lose out to their push.
Feel Apathy1 votesOr they use all of their mana to clear and you tower dive the guy with the stats of a cannon minion and kill them?
FrostQueensPlane5 votes[deleted]
Akali is SO HOT1 voteslol
RyzeTheSmurfMage3 votesLmao salty braindead Akali and Talon mains downvoting this.
VvVVvV5 votesIf thats the case it will be even harder for low elo players.
I literally had a full mana jungler flash to smite a blue buff I was trying to get so that i could run mid to help my team that was fighting. I had no mana, and since he flash smited it I couldnt join the team fight because i had no mana and would of been useless. To make it worse he went and died less than 1 min later giving it to the other team.
I dont understand where the concept of "all buffs are mine" comes from when it comes to some junglers.
When I jungle, its usually with Voli or Malphite, i just care about my 1st red and blue. After that i ask mid if they want blue and my adc if they want red.
Jofeyy5 votesDont forget Manaflow band! If you dont take that now, you're legit trolling.
SephAgro4 votesHow about next you make it so ADCs cant crit without red buff and infernal drakes?
Riot would have a mental breakdown
XeroKimo1 votesI'd be fine with that, old League had mid laners be reliant on blue buff if they wanted to spam spells without care, now only they have to rebalance the jungle to support that again, and rebalance bot lane to not have a 2 item power spike
SwiftKitten887 votesI'd be fine with that, old League had mid laners be reliant on blue buff if they wanted to spam spells without care, now only they have to rebalance the jungle to support that again, and rebalance bot lane to not have a 2 item power spike
old league didn't also have junglers reliant on it too...
