Imagine for a moment that there are 12 bans instead of 6. Who gets banned?

Kingsgrave··15 votes·12,594 views

Not who you would ban, but who would most likely be banned in ranked typically because of this?

Competitive should stay at 6 bans because any larger ban number would allow teams to have their entire roster banned out. Imagine how much damage that could do to most NA and EU teams.

The following 32 would no doubt be banned more than 15% of the time in solo queue quite often, allowing everything that can't handle these picks to thrive

KatarinaRivenFizzNidaleeSejuaniBlitzcrankMorganaLissandraVi{{champion:80}LeonaRekSaiLeeSinZedAhriLeblancThreshGnarVayneAkaliJarvanIVPantheonIreliaSionUdyrXinZhaoLeonaMasterYiAmumuNasusShacoRenektonRumbleHecarim

100 Comments

RiotRiot Draggles21 votes

In gold, I would switch Jarvan for Vi, but otherwise, I think you're spot on. Most of the time I ban Blitzcrank because I just can't be bothered to deal with him.

Yuumi or Lose9 votes

Why don't you guys add more bans? it would make this game more healthier.

Cosmic Warper5 votes

[{quoted}](name=AYY LMA0,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KRMij5G2,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-03-10T02:44:08.286+0000)

Why don't you guys add more bans? it would make this game more healthier.

Either A) They think that their game is so balanced that we don't need more bans, or B) Adding more bans doesn't really help for diversity and actually stifles champion picks as you are given a lot less options on what you can choose in lanes.

Fried Noob2 votes

It's more B I feel, since the champion pool for some roles (like ADC) is already very small, that if there were more bans, you could theoretically ban out an entire role.

DrCyanide2 votes

And if both teams have a thing against having an ADC on their team, is it really that bad? I mean, you've got to get both teams to pitch in on banning out a role.

Wheatloaf3 votes

If I'm going to see Doublelift on ADC Lulu in the LCS, I'd prefer it not be because both teams decided to ban out a role's entire champion pool.

2 much sauuuce7 votes

Yes, because with 10 bans you can ban Ashe, Caitlyn, Corki, Draven, Ezreal, Graves, Jinx, Kalista, Kog'Maw, Lucian, Miss Fortune, Quinn, Sivir, Tristana, Twitch, Varus and Vayne....

o wait that's 17 champions...

Guess we'll ban all the champions played as supports so with 10 bans we'll ban Annie, Blitzcrank, Braum, Janna, Karma, Lulu, Lux, Nami, Nunu, Orianna, Sona, Soraka, Taric, Thresh, Vel'Koz, Zilean and Zyra...

o wait that's 17 champions...

Guess we're running into a problem with banning out an entire role...

UPfreely2 votes

basically what i've heard is that they dont want an entire players champion roster being target banned out

Kobold2 votes

Easily fixed actually. Which would potentially actually help ranked in a way by forcing the player to have even more minimum champions so they will have more games played and more experience. This also doubles by making it harder to smurf as you would have to play longer (assuming you don't buy champs with RP) to achieve minimum number of champions. The current minimum is 16 with the adjustment to 10 bans you could make that minimum from 16 to maybe even 22 champions.

VardenSalad2 votes

Play more champions. You have the same 100+ champs to play as everyone else. Forcing teams to collectively think outside the box isn't a bad thing.

RiotRiot ShadowStorm14 votes

While I don't know why the number hasn't been changed, I'm really curious why you think it would make the game healthier to have more bans.

Mandaari12 votes

TBH I think more bans would be bad. Especially in LCS. C9 brings Veigar out? Time to ban Veigar the next game and ruin diversity.

I'd rather see the same number of bans, but intewoven with the picks. So each team bans once, picks, bans, picks etc.

Kingsgrave6 votes

{quoted}

TBH I think more bans would be bad. Especially in LCS. C9 brings Veigar out? Time to ban Veigar the next game and ruin diversity.

I'd rather see the same number of bans, but intewoven with the picks. So each team bans once, picks, bans, picks etc.

It's only bad in competitive

In ranked it just allows teams to get rid of all potentially abusive characters allowing for greater pick diversity.

exe36 votes

I think it would increase diversity as pro players would have to broaden their champion pools and it could prevent teams from running the same champs in a series as the other team can more easily ban out that comp which is what banning is suppose to be all about anyway, banning out comps and strategies which can't be done with such a small number of bans.

I like the idea of interweaving bans and picks though.

junglerboy167 votes

Yes it would squash one time picks like a Veigar, but ideally, taking away 10 or more champs would make pros have to pick outside the very strongest and best, and after that first handful the pool of good picks opens up quite a bit (imagine banning all the early aggression junglers that everyone complains about, then suddenly you see a jungle malachite for the first time in years, or other cool stuff like that).

Tentacle Love2 votes

{quoted}

Yes it would squash one time picks like a Veigar, but ideally, taking away 10 or more champs would make pros have to pick outside the very strongest and best, and after that first handful the pool of good picks opens up quite a bit (imagine banning all the early aggression junglers that everyone complains about, then suddenly you see a jungle malachite for the first time in years, or other cool stuff like that).

Nah, it'd actually make those things happen more often.

If I knew I could remove one of the opposing team's bans by simply rocking out as an obscure champion, I'd do it all the time. Go ahead, ban all 50 of my roster. I can counter anything you throw at me. Now counter the rest of my team.

RiotRiot ShadowStorm5 votes

My guess is that, in addition to squashing those successful one-off picks (RIP XiaoWeiXiao's Karthus forever), it would also just shift who the "very strongest and best" are (at least for pro play). I think pros are always going to be incentivized to specialize in as few champs as possible, and they'll pick the strongest ones from there.

The short-term impact is probably new champs showing up, but I bet it would stabilize pretty quick, and that jungle Malphite would just become the new Lee Sin.

My other worry (again, at pro level at least), is that if we introduce too many more bans, we just might kill off specialties. In a world where each team gets 5 bans, do we ever see Azingy's Fiddlesticks? Froggen's Anivia? Hai's Zed?

Just my personal thoughts on it.

Angry Monster3 votes

I wish Hai did not zed......

Ark Angel HFB3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot ShadowStorm,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KRMij5G2,comment-id=000000000003000000030001,timestamp=2015-03-10T20:43:14.309+0000)

My guess is that, in addition to squashing those successful one-off picks (RIP XiaoWeiXiao's Karthus forever), it would also just shift who the "very strongest and best" are (at least for pro play). I think pros are always going to be incentivized to specialize in as few champs as possible, and they'll pick the strongest ones from there.

The short-term impact is probably new champs showing up, but I bet it would stabilize pretty quick, and that jungle Malphite would just become the new Lee Sin.

My other worry (again, at pro level at least), is that if we introduce too many more bans, we just might kill off specialties. In a world where each team gets 5 bans, do we ever see Azingy's Fiddlesticks? Froggen's Anivia? Hai's Zed?

Just my personal thoughts on it.

Zed is a one off pick? Shit I guess... not like people won worlds with him or anything... and there is a skin dedicated to it...

RiotRiot ShadowStorm3 votes

I never said he was a one off. He's an example of my second concern, about signature champs being banned out. Zed is a champ that Hai has had continued success (5 of 9 wins this split). Teams need to make a conscious decision about leaving up Zed against C9, and if they ban him, they leave up another contested pick in it's place. This happened to Dig just last week - banned Zed, left up Lissandra, which C9 first-picked.

But if they get 5 or 6 bans per team, that decision becomes much less meaningful. You just ban Zed against C9 always, because why not? Same thing with Froggen's Anivia in previous seasons, and other champs I mentioned.

Ark Angel HFB5 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot ShadowStorm,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KRMij5G2,comment-id=00000000000300000003000100020000,timestamp=2015-03-10T23:32:45.396+0000)

I never said he was a one off. He's an example of my second concern, about signature champs being banned out. Zed is a champ that Hai has had continued success (5 of 9 wins this split). Teams need to make a conscious decision about leaving up Zed against C9, and if they ban him, they leave up another contested pick in it's place. This happened to Dig just last week - banned Zed, left up Lissandra, which C9 first-picked.

But if they get 5 or 6 bans per team, that decision becomes much less meaningful. You just ban Zed against C9 always, because why not? Same thing with Froggen's Anivia in previous seasons, and other champs I mentioned.

Let me stow my snark, and ask a more serious question. One which I feel has an easy answer... is this game balanced and designed around the professional level of play.

The answer we have constantly been given by almost every red brave enough to answer is "No".

I am willing to take them at their word for it... so that being said.

If your main concern with a higher ban number is only that (certain interesting signature "Professional" picks would become banned away in the "Professional Competitive" scene... ) then I fail why that concern should have any barring on the average league player's exp.

Further more if "banned signature picks" is seen as a problem it is in no way an issue to make different rules for competitive 5v5 that allows for only as many bans as Riot's competitive division sees fit.

RiotRiot ShadowStorm3 votes

I honestly don't know how much competitive play factors into balance decisions, so can't really speak about that.

I was speaking to competitive here since that's what this line of conversation was talking about. You're right that we could do number of bans differently there; could be weird to have that, but maybe it's ok? I don't really know.

I'm NOT convinced, however, that raising the ban number would only be a problem for competitive play. It could also have weird ramifications - do people just ban Blitzcrank forever because they have enough bans to cover the OP stuff already? Sorry Blitzcrank players! And even looking through this thread, there's disagreement that adding bans will solve the problems.

Personally, I'd prefer us to get a better understanding of the problems people are expressing first, then figure out ways to solve them. If that ends up being a change in ban numbers, great - but I think deciding on that solution before understanding the problem space is a bad idea.

Thresh Outta Fux2 votes

Why would you ban Blitzcrank when you can strafe? Am I seriously the only player who literally stands still to make Blitzcrank miss?

Ark Angel HFB4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot ShadowStorm,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KRMij5G2,comment-id=0000000000030000000300010002000000000000,timestamp=2015-03-11T00:38:38.274+0000)

I honestly don't know how much competitive play factors into balance decisions, so can't really speak about that.

I was speaking to competitive here since that's what this line of conversation was talking about. You're right that we could do number of bans differently there; could be weird to have that, but maybe it's ok? I don't really know.

I'm NOT convinced, however, that raising the ban number would only be a problem for competitive play. It could also have weird ramifications - do people just ban Blitzcrank forever because they have enough bans to cover the OP stuff already? Sorry Blitzcrank players! And even looking through this thread, there's disagreement that adding bans will solve the problems.

Personally, I'd prefer us to get a better understanding of the problems people are expressing first, then figure out ways to solve them. If that ends up being a change in ban numbers, great - but I think deciding on that solution before understanding the problem space is a bad idea.

The problem is, and follow me here, people don't like to lose and they like it even less when it seems to be the same champs over and over.

The real issue is that for all the talk of diversity, a large section of the cast is outclassed by the more popular picks. For everything from more damage to just safer... the current meta is very stagnate.

The game has become less complex...

Just like in MTG... you lose to jayce one to many times and maybe you get sick of seeing him...

Well I'm sick of Lee, Liss, Kalista, Maokai, Zed, Xert, Ahri... and I'm not the only one.

Nameless Voice5 votes

Bans are a stopgap solution.

In an ideal game, we wouldn't want any bans, because every champion would be well-designed and well-balanced (and, at least to a greater extent than today, would be picked more equally.)

Unfortunately, we do not have an ideal game.

A number of champions exist that people simply do not want to have to play against, either because they are simply overpowered, or because their kit is not fun to play against - or often, both.

Suppose that there is a champion who outperforms any other champion in a role - without being able to ban that champion, to optimise your chances of winning you are forced to either play them, or pick a champion that counters them because you know that your enemy will pick them. (Many people still choose to "take the hit" and play a champion that they enjoy, even if it hurts their chances to win, but that's not really relevant to the argument.) Being able to ban out that champion means that the player is free to choose outside of that small pool. They aren't forced into "I have to pick X, because otherwise the enemy will pick Y and I won't be able to deal with it."

Now, suppose there is a champion who is just extremely unpleasant to play against. They might not tend to win, but everyone hates being forced to deal with them. Maybe their laning phase is oppressive, maybe they force you to build really sub-optimal items to survive them, maybe they force you to pick champions who counter them or be unable to do anything against them. This champion is probably a lot of fun for the player playing him (after all, they are dominating another player), but should his opponents be forced to play against him constantly, despite hating it? Shouldn't the lost fun of the other players outweigh the fun of the one abusing this champion?

Again, bans come in here to allow players to avoid the champions that they absolutely don't want to play against, those which completely take the fun out of their gaming experience.

The proper solution is to fix these problems - to bring the overpowered champions into line, to rework the champions whose kits are toxic to play against.

This simply hasn't happened. Instead, the number of "problematic" champions has increased along with the champion roster.

Bans are the temporary solution to bad balance and bad design, and they need to be there until / unless the balance and design can be fixed, the champions nerfed or the toxic kits reworked. As more problems arise, shouldn't there be more bans to help overcome the issue?

Personally, I'd rather see the balance fixed than the number of bans increased, but if that isn't happening, then more bans would be a stopgap solution to avoid the issue and improve the quality of the game experience.

ScurvyNave2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot ShadowStorm,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KRMij5G2,comment-id=000000000003000000030001,timestamp=2015-03-10T20:43:14.309+0000)

My guess is that, in addition to squashing those successful one-off picks (RIP XiaoWeiXiao's Karthus forever), it would also just shift who the "very strongest and best" are (at least for pro play). I think pros are always going to be incentivized to specialize in as few champs as possible, and they'll pick the strongest ones from there.

The short-term impact is probably new champs showing up, but I bet it would stabilize pretty quick, and that jungle Malphite would just become the new Lee Sin.

My other worry (again, at pro level at least), is that if we introduce too many more bans, we just might kill off specialties. In a world where each team gets 5 bans, do we ever see Azingy's Fiddlesticks? Froggen's Anivia? Hai's Zed?

Just my personal thoughts on it.

All good and true but at the end of the day when I am in ranked I don't know what champion ...lets say xxSmorgasbordxx specializes in. I don't know the guy, I can't predict whether my usual customary Vi ban is going to ruin his day or not.

With only 3 bans you have to guess at what the enemy team plays out off over a hundred champions.

I get that the LCS is the focus of attention but shouldn't the aim of balance and fairness be directed towards the massive player base rather than the 5-10% of pros.

Not to say that I don't enjoy seeing a specialized pick but should every decision be weighed based on what makes it better for the LCS rather than what makes it better for the game in general? Maybe just limit LCS to 3 bans but give us plebeians 12 bans because we aren't well known and can't target ban each other.

Solaxo5 votes

{quoted}

TBH I think more bans would be bad. Especially in LCS. C9 brings Veigar out? Time to ban Veigar the next game and ruin diversity.

I'd rather see the same number of bans, but intewoven with the picks. So each team bans once, picks, bans, picks etc.

Why should we balance the game around LCS? Why should we give a damn? We are the players and CUSTOMERS. This game was made for US. "Pros" should have secondary priority

NinjaFifer2 votes

I'm a big fan of smite's version. Each side bans 2, then first pick gets one pick, team 2 then picks two, team 1 then picks two, team 2 then picks one. So, ban 2, then pick 3, using the same system we have now. Then another 'round' starts, with team 2 getting first pick on their final ban (total 3 bans) then they get first champ pick in the last draft round. So, here's the list of choices in order:

Team 1: Ban 1 Team 2: Ban 1 Team 1: Ban 1 Team 2: Ban 1 Team 1: Pick 1 Team 2: Pick 2 Team 1: Pick 2 Team 2: Pick 1 Team 2: Ban 1 Team 1: Ban 1 Team 2: Pick 1 Team 1: Pick 2 Team 2: Pick 1

The ban in the middle of the picking lets you target your bans more for the roles left open, and also lets you play more mind games by breaking the meta.

Cindikle4 votes

Far as I understand it. The main reason for the bans is to help setup your team and counter team comps you don't want to face.

Say you're building an engage team, and want to make sure they can't pick a poke team to whittle you down before you can engage.

Currently this is next to impossible. At best you can take out Ziggs, Xerath and Lux out of the middle lane. That still leaves a lot of options for long range poke champions who can siege. Nid, Vel'Koz and Jayce can play the roll. You can pick up good siege champions in other lanes. And they could just as easily pick up a utility mage mid such as Zyra or Orianna. There's also the unconventional options like Kog'Maw and Corki as well who can do the job. Especially if you can get that Kog'Maw past early game.

Instead what we are left with is just picking out what is often the most frustrating champions to face.

Maybe a change to the ban system as a whole needs to be added.

What if your team could pick team passives. Different ones that would change how you played your team. Instead of banning champions, you would ban these passives.

The larger the champion pool becomes the more pointless champion bans become. Without it turning into banning so many champions that each game feels like a part time job just to start it. If Riot wants to create diversity, this would be a good place to start. As what was once a great place to target the enemy team to build your team's options around, is now just a "ban what's OP/annoying".

Edit: What if items were banned instead? Banning mana regen items would hurt all siege champion. Banning out ADC's could change so much about how a team can play. Sadly i would suspect we'd just see Last Whisper/Void Staff getting pseudo-deleted though.

RiotRiot ShadowStorm2 votes

The main reason for the bans is to help setup your team and counter team comps you don't want to face. [...] Currently this is next to impossible. [...] Instead what we are left with is just picking out what is often the most frustrating champions to face.

This is a really interesting line of thought to me. I think there's some truth to this, and I like that you had some ideas on how to address it.

I'm not sure we would ever want to support the ability to ban out an entire team comp. But I think it's fair to say bans should let you deal with certain styles of poke comp.

Let's assume Jayce and Nidalee are essentially interchangeable in every poke comp. In that case, yeah, you need to ban both to really accomplish anything (or, ban one pick one). There should be a clear reason why a team picks Jayce instead of Nidalee for your poke comp other than "this one is just stronger". Ideally, Jayce slots in because he brings X with his poke, and Nidalee brings Y.

Morello touched on that in an interview recently. In regards to Azir, he said

Azir doesn't just provide that win team fight value, so you don't have to stack rank him against every other guy who fights. Do I want what Azir brings? Nope, not going to bring him. Do I? Probably want to bring him.

And I think that mentality can be expanded to "Does he bring something that ruins my plans? Probably want to ban him!" That's where I think this gets interesting. Suddenly, you're thinking about those differences during banning too.

If Jayce and Nidalee do different enough things within a poke comp that you can say "hey, let's ban Jayce because our plan just can't deal with X. They might just pick Nidalee, but that's ok, because we can deal with her by doing Y." That feels more like where we want to be.

I think new champs have been better at having these more unique things they do (reworks and updates too). Lots of old champs need some love though, and important that new champs continue to evolve things.

Hellioning2 votes

Okay, I could rant a bit about your last comment (what CAN'T Kalista do as an ADC?) but I'm going to make a joke instead.

No one can deal with Nidalee.

Cindikle2 votes

While this is true. You can also pick a different champion that fills the main thing you are looking for. And fill the missing gap that Jayce had but Nid didn't in another players place.

If you're looking for a poke mid and choosing between Nid and Jayce, and are OK with facing Nid. Only thing I can think of is that you'd want her ability to get in and burst a target and be able to get out. Jayce cannot really do this. At best he can knock someone back as he runs away. Assuming he didn't need that attack to kill the target.

So this would mean you can handle Nid going into melee range. But don't want to face Jayce who has more power while staying ranged. Maybe you got Jinx as can she quickly lands a trap, securing Nids death.

If you're banning Jayce that leaves one of the other listed poke champions that can go mid available. And finding other rolls that can do what Jayce does isn't too hard. Lulu top can be very good at poking, all her power is at range and brings much more utility than Jayce.

But that too is part of being good at the game. Being able to pick around the bans to still get your ideal team comp. But this too means that each ban is worth less the easier it is to replace what you lost. The higher the champion count becomes, the less meaningful each ban is.

And this is just talking one lane that is trying to be banned out. Each lane has decent choices for these rolls. Jungle is about the least flexible one, but i wouldn't exactly count it out.

In the end, you're left with banning the overly oppressive champions. If you're looking to make your engage comp stronger. You'll probably ban out Nid and Janna as Nid can fill any lane almost well enough to be a threat and Janna is the master of anti-engage. Zyra and Nami are also good bans for the same reason as Janna.

This is all assuming they will pick a poke comp. Factoring in other comps you'll also need to ban other champions. There just are not enough bans to build your team around.

Mid/lower MMR often ban what is considered OP. Or hard for lower skill players to handle(Blitz being a champion much more commonly banned at lower ranks). Higher elo's can maybe build around bans. But they also must ban what CAN be OP. Zed being a very good example of this. You may be able to handle him, but if you face someone who has nearly mastered him you're in trouble. Leblanc being another one.

Pro's often end up banning out players instead of comps. But they are the most likely to actually ban a champion because of their comp.

Probably just the way I look at it overall. I don't consider myself a great player or anything and could be missing a big part of it. I overall don't see the real use in how bans are setup. They're rarely used to empower your team. Adding more bans only creates other problems. The more champions we get the more both sides become true.

If we keep champions bans, I think the best way is to weave it into the picks. Make it so before a champion picks a champion, they pick a ban. When two champions are being picked, it will follow pick order for who gets to ban. (Player 1, 2, 4 on blue. 1, 3, 5 on purple).

Arcade Andrew4 votes

More bans are needed as more champions come along, but not 12, I Like the tossed around idea of each player gets their own ban, which solves a few problems

A) not enough bans for so many champions B) giving the ban power to one person who might be afk or not ban somebody youd like banned C)enforces the "this is a team game" thought process when each player bans D) Would make champion select more interactive (to avoid having those guys who can be like "oh im last pick so I have time to afk!" then they dont come back and its a whole 5-10 minutes wasted

trial12 votes

I doubt if it is about more healthier ( and what actually define healthy gameplay by Riot standard ), but rather to see more champions being used. LOL have a large gallery of champions yet only small amount of them always being used. In Riot LOL client software there is this little window at the bottom right to spectate matches. Everyday in ranked matches, there are always same faces there. You can try it yourself or do a research about it. No need for a website which gather data, just look at it with your own eye. Ever see let's say Taric used all day long 24/7 for a month ? Or Yorick ? Or Urgot ? Or how about the trio starter champion for tutorial ? Just compare their number to ... let's say Thresh. Just compare Taric vs Thresh, both are defined as support champions by Riot.

While nemesis draft can make those underused champs being used, it might follow ranked matches but filled with the same underused champs, everyday.

Yes, champion balanced have a lot of factor in it. Simple priority :

  • dashes / blink
  • very rewarding easy to use skillshot
  • easy to use cc
  • heavy burst
metaworldpeace103 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot ShadowStorm,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KRMij5G2,comment-id=000000000003,timestamp=2015-03-10T05:08:45.764+0000)

While I don't know why the number hasn't been changed, I'm really curious why you think it would make the game healthier to have more bans.

I'd like to see at least 10 bans. 10 bans would be a good even number, each player playing can individually ban a champion that they don't want to play against. I wouldn't say the game would be healthier, but at least from a LCS viewer stand point, it would be nice to see more than 15ish picks being picked every. single. game. When I see an LCS game with a Lissandra/Morgana/Graves/Zed/Vi against a Rumble/Janna/Ahri/Sivir/Thresh, I instantly close the game, its boring to see the same champions in each game. With more bans, you could potentially ban our 4 of those 10 mentioned champions and maybe see a new champion or 2 creep up. With how slow the balance team has been with containing the "op" champions (Hello Lucian! Strong for 9 months straight.) It would be nice to have a small buffer so that I can ban a couple more OP champs.

WooBeeWoo2 votes

Because its like recieveing a cost of living raise. There are now over 120 champs, the game has inflated but we aren't able to keep up with it. I personally think it would help becuase right now when I ban I have to try to ban three champs that I think can roll my team hardest but I don't have room to get rid of champs I REALLY hate playing against. For me thats Heim I jungle and ganking him imo is basically a death sentence so I would love to ban him even tho he gets played never but I can't because there are too many outliers from the balance to deal with first.

CrazedPorcupine2 votes

Adding more bans, after 3 people on each team have picked would make it a healthy addition of more bans. This would make the ban phase more strategic focused more on banning out a champ for the comp, and forcing the enemy team to make more strategic choices. The first ban phase would be to ban champs that are problematic you don't want to face at all, while the 2nd ban phase is the strategic bans where you ban champs you think the enemy is going to pick that will fit their comp, so you attempt to stifle their comp rather than a specific player.

Dota 2 does this and it works wonderfully.

Also the way it would go is this Blue ban, red ban, blue ban, red ban, blue ban, red ban (total for 6 bans like now.) Blue picks 1, red picks 2, blue picks 2, red picks 1, BEGIN 2nd BAN PHASE: Blue ban one, red ban, blue ban, red ban, BEGIN SECOND PICK PHASE: Blue pick 2, red pick 2 OR Blue pick 1, red pick 1, blue pick 1, red pick 1 OR blue pick 1, red pick 2, blue pick 1 OR red pick 1, blue pick 2, red pick 1

Thryale4 votes

why would you ban sej? I haven't see her in play for almost 2 years now. I'd welcome the change.

Kingsgrave5 votes

{quoted}

why would you ban sej? I haven't see her in play for almost 2 years now. I'd welcome the change.

Her ult and Q are just as devastating as Vi or Jarvan and she is relatively easy to play.

She has a relatively high solo queue winrate, I see her spammed in Silver and I think she is probably going to be nerfed after the 5.5 patch releases Bami's Cinder and the new Tank jungle enchant. She already clears relatively decently and can gank just as well as someone like Jarvan and Vi. Her teamfight is also tremendously terrifying.

aaronconlin4 votes

Honestly, I think each player should get a ban instead of the captain choosing all bans

DropFill3 votes

I don't think sejuani would be banned, at least in brazil. I think graves or kalista would be banned instead

KING OF MASKS3 votes

In a perfect world, Gnar would be banned every game.

taleofsonata3 votes

I'll dedicate all my Bans toKatarina

ZombeezyJeezy2 votes

12 bans is ludicrous. Keep it at 6 for now and when the time comes bring it up to 8.

Kingsgrave5 votes

{quoted}

12 bans is ludicrous. Keep it at 6 for now and when the time comes bring it up to 8.

6 is barely 5% of the cast 12 is roughly 10%

How is that ludicrous?

ZombeezyJeezy3 votes

{quoted}

6 is barely 5% of the cast 12 is roughly 10%

How is that ludicrous?

Because it's just too many and unecessary.

Banning out 10% of the entire champion pool just takes fun out of the game, it doesn't balance it.

Kingsgrave4 votes

{quoted}

Because it's just too many and unecessary.

Banning out 10% of the entire champion pool just takes fun out of the game, it doesn't balance it.

The 12 you get rid of basically allows at least 2-3 per ban to be used that couldn't be used before.

Ban literally every assassin, Malz and Heimer suddenly useful.

It's impossible to balance all thee characters so let ppl ban them out.

Killme3042 votes

The problem of diversity isn't solved by more bans.

Right now, its usually the same-ish 6 champs banned because they are the most powerful. Even adding one ban per side just means that now there are 8 perma-bans instead of 6.

Worse still, if there are too many bans, then you could ban out entire roles (like ban all good adcs or supports). While some people might like that because they hate X role, it would create more problems than it solves.

straight4free1 votes

I think a variable amount of bans should be available in custom game, for people to play with as they see fit.

I would be very interested to see how it affects the game, besides making champion select take longer.

2 much sauuuce2 votes

You know what, they should do this. Make an addition to custom game modes to select the number of bans available per side. Wouldn't be that hard to implement. Me thinks...

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