" Some things we'll be looking at below, we're also expecting some champs will probably need follow up changes after the 8.16 nerfs to burst from runes." -- Meddler
Why the fuck does Riot always do this shit. Just like when Duskblade was nerfed and all these champions got massive buffs. What the fuck is the point of reducing damage if you're just going to add it back into the fucking game?
Tormentula39 votesBecause there are a lot of champs that rely on electrocute to exist, and some of them aren't even doing so hot in the meta to begin with.
To throw one out; 
isn't great atm and she relies on as much damage as humanly possible for her Q execute, so she basically lost 30 damage in total level 3 which is also a reduction to venomous bite.
Its not like "ok, damage overall gets lowered" its "fuck we have a % missing health mechanic that also gets hit indirectly from this on an already underpreformer".
takes a big hit from the celerity nerf too. Celerity in combination with his E and Q MS was part of why he was so good atm.
Velzard of Koz1 votesshe relies on as much damage as humanly possible
Then she must be in her arachnid form when she is bursting squishies. Ez fix. NEXT!
EDIT: To add at least something serious, while I understand your point, my scepticism really doubts Elise will be prime example of those who will be buffed.
Tormentula1 votesI'm less concerned about 100-0ing squishies since an auto will probably kill them afterwards, but if she falls off as hard as she does late game, electro makes her fall off harder with lower scaling + ratio, and sudden impact/cheap shot get even weaker against MR and health respectively. All this damage nerfs (including sudden because it works with the bite) just makes her + her bite weaker.
Elise isn't preforming well as it is (for a 2% playrate sure) so this kinda sucks that we're being punished for other damage dealers sins. Which I fully understand don't get me wrong. But this is why I use elise, not so much out of bias but because Elise's mechanics differ from say, khazix or Taliyah, where they actually scale and do flat damage opposed to %missing, so she hurts more when she was likely never a target to hit with the changes. (I doubt she is being complained enough to get an honorable mention on why they're nerfing runes.)
Hopefully riot considers this.
Daddy Tie Me Up7 votesin what world is nocturne getting nerfed a problem?????
Verxint7 votesThis all makes sense and I agree But you do realize what will actually happen is Zed, Akali, Fizz, and other champs who don't need it will get the compensation buffs and Elise won't, right?
Tormentula1 votesThis all makes sense and I agree But you do realize what will actually happen is Zed, Akali, Fizz, and other champs who don't need it will get the compensation buffs and Elise won't, right?
Yep sadly.
Evelynn will probably get buffed first.
Rock MD36 votesIt sounds like they're giving compensation buffs to the champs who used Electrocute as a crutch, not buffs to champions who are still going to be top tier afterward.
I wouldn't worry too much about it.
CppL33 votesLets hope so.But i have a feeling they gonna compensate champs like zed ,talon...
nikos pyridis21 votesIf Akali gets any Buff that is not to her ap Ratio, a Bruiser style ( NOT bruiser, but Bruiser style ) build based on AD will just make her too good and we will have problems like the ones he had with tank Ekko.
warpenguin55510 votesIt's almost like the champions who are only playable because of electrocute being broken might need some help after it's nerfed. This isn't some strange concept, stop pretending it is.
Provengreil1 votesI don't trust them to do it right without seeing the nerf live without the buffs. We've done this dance way too many times and gotten our toes squooshed.
wildfox9910 votesas i said on some other post while some champion like 
won't care at all some assassins literally relied on electrocute for being able to kill their target with their full rotation
just for say the first ones that came up in my mind,all of them didn't use electrocute as "i missed everything but i still oneshoted you" but they used it for closing their full combo (hitting everything) that else wouldn't be able to kill their targets before 3+ items
nerfing not only electrocute but the whole domination tree could hurt their damage output too much so they may need some compensation buffs
nikos pyridis23 votesNocturn often goes Lethal Tempo so he gets even more power about the time the fear procs. Also Ahri opts to go Aery or Comet in some matchups. From the PBE changes i see that they make Electrocute like the Old Thunderlord and these champions her ok with Thunderlord.
Nøctμrne1 votesNocturne frequently takes both of these, I used to take only take Electrocute, but it doesn't work as well in higher elo where people understand building defensive items and stats, and your one shot won't be as effective. Since then I've switched to lethal tempo as it does a consistently higher amount of damage imo. So its either way.
He also already had his duskblade nerf compensations removed, I doubt they will be dumb enough to give him electrocute compensations and do the same thing over again.
wildfox992 votesAlso Ahri opts to go Aery or Comet in some matchups
just bad ahri players (people that don't know how to use the champion) use comet since this rune literally get countered by ahri's own kit her Q will proc it on the edge so unless the enemy is trying to walk in your second Q it will miss anyway,if you charm someone he will walk out of the comet damage on his own
also aery doesn't really work with her,it may be good in low elos vs melee champions because they will let you AA them constantly without fighting back,but after the lvl 6 this rune is literally useless and pre 6 most of them could easily outrade you without electrocute (or at least survive,ahri doesn't aim to kill someone pre 6 which in fact it's the moment where she's most vulnerable,trying to have kill pressure pre 6 is useless,plus electrocute would be far better in an early game fight 2 vs 2 with your jungler)
in any case electrocute it's what most players pick so she's getting balanced around it
From the PBE changes i see that they make Electrocute like the Old Thunderlord and these champions her ok with Thunderlord.
most of them struggle in proccing electrocute
it's not like the old thunderlord,for example since you mentioned her before ahri's Q count as 1 hit so she can't hit someone 3 times with unique abilities in her standard trade pattern so the CD reduction doesn't help her at all if she want to proc it she have to stay near her enemy and Q AA W him,but she'll end up buring all her mana so fast and her enemy will more likely countertrade 2 times harder since she's using an AA (~60 pre mitigation damage) and her W which have a laughable damage (40 + 30%AP),any other mid base rotation will outdamage this and since she needs to be near them for a while she's basically a free target
the only case where it's worth trying to proc electrocute it's when your enemy got caught in your charm so he can't fight back,but it won't happen often (basically never for higher elos)
idk if ahri will be buff-worthly after this indirect nerf but it's sure she'll end up being weaker than she currently is
Tormentula2 votes[{quoted}](name=nikos pyridis2,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KNIbZbEs,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2018-08-11T18:50:32.850+0000)
From the PBE changes i see that they make Electrocute like the Old Thunderlord
Have to remember we still don't profit in damage compared to old runes/masteries.
We had the % bonus damage of sorcery, natural talent, assassin's %bonus against isolated targets, greenfather's gift, merciless, freshblood, and double edged sword.
The main selling point of the current runes is the fact runes were so high in damage compared to last time. So yea, we get old TLD basically, but at best we're only getting one of either fresh blood or percision (cheap shot vs. sudden, but unlike before you can't have the bonus damage and penetration), and possibly natural talent in the form of eyeball collection? Can't think of a comparable rune.
So we're still lacking sorcery, assassin, greenfather's, merciless (unless you go coup de grace which also cuts into your base stats as percision secondary tree) and if you want to count savagery for camps/waves that too. Electrocute being overtuned as fuck was probably intentional, just last time all that power was from different culprits.
Somebody Love Me2 votesas i said on some other post while some champion like
nerfing not only electrocute but the whole domination tree could hurt their damage output too much so they may need some compensation buffs
I wouldnt even put Shaco there, since he can make use of Dark Harvest, and Noc of lethal tempo
wildfox992 votesyea i put them there kinda because if would say only ahri and ekko when i'm an ahri and ekko player most of the comments would have been like "oh an ahri main asking for another buff because he can't play his champion if she's below 54%wr" or something like that...so for avoiding that i put some champions that CAN take it,the first ones that came up in my mind
Somebody Love Me2 votesyea i put them there kinda because if would say only ahri and ekko when i'm an ahri and ekko player most of the comments would have been like "oh an ahri main asking for another buff because he can't play his champion if she's below 54%wr" or something like that...so for avoiding that i put some champions that CAN take it,the first ones that came up in my mind
I think Ahri, Eve, and Elise are really the only champs in need of compensation buffs if electrocute actually ends up that bad.
Cosnirak1 votessome assassins literally relied on electrocute for being able to kill their target with their full rotation
I don't want assassins to kill people with their full rotation, electrocute or not. I want them to have to target people who aren't at 100% hp or work towards making people not be 100% hp. No one should be dying 1v1 from 100% hp unless against someone who is really fed. That's literally the point of nerfing electrocute (in my mind), to stop this stupid crap where people just die suddenly.
My Waifu Vanilla3 votesHow am I supposed to widdle someone down as an assassin though? Outside of lane if I go to "poke" someone as Talon or Fizz I straight up die or have to blow my ult anyway since that requires me getting into or damn near melee range and WALK away in the case of Talon. If I go to W an ADC after laning phase I AM taking 3-4 auto attacks for free.
Cosnirak1 votesAs the game currently exists: You aren't. Don't try to for the reasons you mentioned. It's not your job, it's someone else's job. Play around objectives by doing things such as split pushing, hiding in swept bushes in the jg you expect opponents to come near due to objectives. Let your team mates poke them down for you. Follow up on the engage of your team's tank(s)/fighter(s).
As the game should exist: Riot should have better designers I guess? Assassins in pvp are generally awful and unfun for everyone else. The reason they exist in games like League is because there are people who want to play them, not because they allow for healthy game play patterns.
My Waifu Vanilla1 votesEkko is probably getting a straight buff with the electrocute changes. He can't all-in and kill in lane anyway so it just makes his periodic burst patterns much more consistent since he is less gated by cooldowns compared to other assassins (22 second shadow on Zed compared to like 9 seconds on Ekko E).
wildfox991 votesto be fair he can all-in in lane if he want but usually he don't because if enemy jungler react you are dead
anyway his Q E doesn't proc electrocute,his passive for some reasons doesn't count as ability so you have to AA your enemy twice,for doing so you have to stay still in a melee range for a while so you are getting countertraded,plus there are so many matchups where he can't AA his enemy twice even if he try (he either get killed or kited)
that's why i said i can't know before playing them,technically champions like would like less damage but also less CD on electrocute,but they struggle in proccing it so even if they poke before going all-in having it up doesn't matter since they won't use it anyway,it ends up it just give them a worse all-in without helping them with the poke
ShiraZen9 votesHave you ever seen a Zed who forgot his Electrocute? Without it he actually does 100% nothing until 6 unless you're just standing in the open to take full Q damage. Zed's kit got completely nerfed once when Thunderlords was still around, but not Thunderlords. Zed then is getting proxy nerfs with Duskblade and Electrocute changes.
What this does is make his kit, which was balanced around the runes he took instead of itself, don't have enough to actually function without the stuff they wanted him to take. I'm a Zed main and I'm hoping they nerf Electrocute and Duskblade more, then maybe they can actually fix Zed's damage output pre-6 and allow us to take more than just Electrocute or some corny ass Dark Harvest build.
JoeAnarchy3 votesHave you ever seen a Zed who forgot his Electrocute? Without it he actually does 100% nothing until 6 unless you're just standing in the open to take full Q damage. Zed's kit got completely nerfed once when Thunderlords was still around, but not Thunderlords. Zed then is getting proxy nerfs with Duskblade and Electrocute changes.
What this does is make his kit, which was balanced around the runes he took instead of itself, don't have enough to actually function without the stuff they wanted him to take. I'm a Zed main and I'm hoping they nerf Electrocute and Duskblade more, then maybe they can actually fix Zed's damage output pre-6 and allow us to take more than just Electrocute or some corny ass Dark Harvest build.
i actually don't mind Zed with it.. even tho i personally think he's cheap and hard to outplay, but not inherently broken.. champs i personally hate with electrocute, are Talon and Fizz.. they already have enough damage, with little outplay. they don't need the extra..
wildfox991 votesi'm not a zed player so i may be wrong but i think the problem is his ult and W Q interaction
it's an amp from any source so it will amp electrocute and 
damage as well ending up broking those items/runes
i'm pretty sure if his ult would amp only the damage from your abilities and AAs (items,runes and anything external to zed kit doesn't count) he would be way more easy to balance and he could have more power budget on his own since he have less synergy with them
also his pre 6 rely on electrocute because let's be honest when he can proc it with W E 2Q you are forced to back (or if he stay you can flash E AA ignite and killl him) the problem is that his shadows are coded as a second champion casting an unique ability (separated from zed) so his double Q counts as 2 hit for electrocute stacks so if you really want him being less reliant on it it could make sense making his Q + shadow Q count like the same ability (so W E 2Q doesn't proc it anymore) so they can buff his poke without making him an oneshoting machine
Ifneth1 votesHave you ever seen a Zed who forgot his Electrocute? Without it he actually does 100% nothing until 6 unless you're just standing in the open to take full Q damage. Zed's kit got completely nerfed once when Thunderlords was still around, but not Thunderlords. Zed then is getting proxy nerfs with Duskblade and Electrocute changes.
What this does is make his kit, which was balanced around the runes he took instead of itself, don't have enough to actually function without the stuff they wanted him to take. I'm a Zed main and I'm hoping they nerf Electrocute and Duskblade more, then maybe they can actually fix Zed's damage output pre-6 and allow us to take more than just Electrocute or some corny ass Dark Harvest build.
I feel like Zed’s too safe to also be a strong laner and dominate mid-game. He should have to have an individual weakness to compensate for his spammable ranged waveclear and poke.
nikos pyridis22 votesThe Zed shurikens should count as the same ability regardless of the fact they were cast from Zed and Shadow. Ekko Q counts as 1 hit for Electrocute while zed Qs count as different abilities. With Thunderlord it made sense because it was any instance of damage so old akali Q auto ( and new ) would be Q damage auto damage and empowered auto from Q damage so it procced thunderlord but Electrocute works differently.
Besteal4 votesWell duskblade nerfs had a different reason, first of all. The nerf wasn't made to nerf damage at all, only to stop non assassins from abusing it, and also to reduce dependability on the item for assassins. Well, the latter didn't work out very well, but less non assassins abuse duskblade now, so the intended effect was achieved. Idk about electrocute compensation though.
My Waifu Vanilla1 votesI would say the duskblade changes did help though. It made it not MANDATORY to go Duskblade first every game. Zed as of today goes Ghostblade first in 35% of his games and has a higher winrate than Duskblade since Ghostblade makes your roams MUCH more efficient due to the large amount of movement speed it provides. The problem was that Duskblade straight up did more damage than whatever ability you didn't max when you bought it ESPECIALLY early.
Ok sure but why2 votesSo off-meta users suffer
Christ Superstar2 votesKinda silly, when you think about how it can proc up to double the amount in the early game, making it even easier for abusers to poke people out of lane... front up dmg might be down, but overall dmg is increased by a good bit up to late game. -.-
I agree weak champions should be buffed! Though, IMO, preferably not through even more dmg, if it can be helped - of course some lower tier champs needs all the help they can get. ;)
Malak2 votesI want major Karthus compensation buffs for removing gold funneling
Quiet Dude1 votesThey are usually buffs to compensate for a smoother early game, and they fall off mid game I'm guessing
nikos pyridis21 votesThey made it so Electrocute Loses 20 base damage lvl 1 but has half the cooldown. At least that's how it is on the pbe. Scorch does half damage and has half CD. Riot please.
Flemman1 votesI feel like 
will struggle a lot after the change, I don't mind him getting some buff the patch after if it's the case
Sire Hippington1 votesI think if Electrocute really is hit meaningfull enough, quite some champs will be in a bad spot so buffs are fine. However, i fear that riot will just buff their damage to be there it was with prenerf eletrocute, which would be wrong. The entier reason EC gets nerfed is to reduce upfront burst, so i really hope they don't just buff burst on champs and instead buff them in other ways.
Emerald Fang1 votesThe Electrocute nerfs are LAUGHABLE. You lose some damage late but you gain it TWICE AS OFTEN??? It's not even half the damage, it's like -20% maybe.
Nea1041 votesBecause they want to keep the overall damage and bursting this high. It's intentional.
Guess they are happy about how their own game is at the moment (and has been for months and months). Awesome :D
Aram Mama 1 votesIs this a joke?
Ariel the Cruel1 votes
Compensation?
LordGeovanni1 votescompensation because overpowered shit was nerfed??????????????? can i get some upside down questionmarks?
PaffWasTaken1 votes"We are nerfing the aspect that makes a portion of some champions really busted! but don't fear: we'll buff them in compensation, to make sure that those champions already breaking the game will continue doing so!"
Really Rito'rded I must say
Stars Shaper1 votesHow about no?
The issue is exactly that those champions do too much damage. I wish I had compensation buffs on Aurelion sol and Xerath when they gutted each and every AP item.
Keshaun1 votesI don't understand either my friend.
Gregorovic081 votesI hope they buff Bard if they are going to be giving compensation buffs, he uses many of the runes that they are nerfing.
Craktite1 votesIt will hurt Lissandra :(
Trailsmix1 votesElectrocute, Aery, and other runes that add on damage for just having them... they are meta defining... why take Aftershock, when Grasp give me damage, health and healing. "Why take Comet, if Aery applies on autos and always hits". "Why take a move speed buff rune(I honestly forget it), when electrocute secures the kill". These types of interactions aren't challenging or fun to play against... they are just infuriating with the fact that defense is getting weaker, and players not needing skill to kill a target.
Tennz1 votesMany Electrocute users are borderline to underpowered. So they will need compensation buffs otherwise they will be pushed completely out of the meta. A great example of this would be Elise.
