Do you consider shen to be an effective tank?

ExecutorDill·Jul 14, 2015·5 votes·916 views

Shen cannot soak up tons of damage without items. And he does not have high regeneration, resistant or negetion abilities like , , respectively. Now we have how can regenerate a big portions of the health he lost pr gain a shield thats as big as his hp bar.

And they tell me that I am to overlook that because Shen has a low cooldown shield and a gap closing cc. Bah hum bug! No energy spam an ability and if they do, they won't be able to use other abilities.

Shen's tankability needs reassessing because this Tanky ninja isn't tanky at all.

26 Comments

DarthSpectrumJul 14, 20153 votes

Shen does have some in lane sustain between his W and his Q. Although he might not have impressive defense steroids such as Mundo or Tahm, he does have a some what spammable AOE taunt that can define team fights.

Additionally, Shen's shield is amazing. It can literally turn a poor engage around. As much as I hate to say this, pros in LCS picks Shen so often for a reason.

ExecutorDillJul 14, 20151 votes

You mean his ult? Yea it is. But where talking about shen as a whole. After an ult+ E. He doesn't bring much to a teamfight.

XantakJul 14, 20153 votes

I consider him starting to make a push as Assassin Shen, with Wit's End, Sated Devourer and attack speed items now.

ErockandrollJul 14, 20152 votes

Shen is Unique, Your not picking him for the same reasons you would pick Maokai, Sion, Sejuani. A lot of your power is on Your Stand United.

He certainly would feel weak if your not playing the map. But if your team pressures multiple objectives at once, you can certainly turn around a smaller skirmish with your ult. However your not going to be as good in the Larger Team fight like Maokai or Sion would.

To your complain, I don't think the Tanky ninja actually needs to be that tanky. He merely needs the play making potential, and he has that. Comparing him to Maokai, Mundo, whoever, is more like comparing apples to oranges.

ExecutorDillJul 14, 20151 votes

What your saying nakes no sense. His primary role is tank! He should be somewhat good at it. If he was meant to help allies and set up gamrle changing plays he would be Support.

ErockandrollJul 14, 20151 votes

{quoted}

What your saying nakes no sense. His primary role is tank! He should be somewhat good at it. If he was meant to help allies and set up gamrle changing plays he would be Support.

What I'm saying is that he's a different kind of tank. If they gave him the same level of Tank stats to him as they did with Sion or Maokai, He would be bonker's Problematic. And a lot of their Tankyness comes from more than just their tanky abilities. Their CC is also useful in Damage prevention. But if they tried to mold shen with Ideal definition of Tank, That would just create homogenous champions, and that would be boring.

You also mentioned Bram, and he's a support. Alistar is classified as a tank, yet played as a support. And shen is being played as a support as well. Though his main role is Tank, That does not define him as a Top lane tank, or a Jungle tank, or a support tank. All of which will have very different goals in the team comp.

McAllisterJul 14, 20151 votes

He seems most effective as some sort of duelist/bruiser with weird scaling. He needs more utility/CC to be a good tank. The heal on his Q doesn't compensate for how much less CC he has than people like Maokai or Nautilus.

3TWarriorJul 14, 20151 votes

I think "tanky ninja" needs to be reworked because nothing about ninja means tank

if they made his dash longer on a shorter cooldown, he'd be an effective melee attacker though, but they'd probably have to lower the energy cost too

as it is, shen is overtuned and has a hard time scaling into late game, but when he catches you with a taunt, you're pretty much dead from his teammates

Knight SoIaire Jul 14, 20151 votes

yeah but "guardian ninja" could actualy work

ExecutorDillJul 14, 20151 votes

Lol where did that come from?

Star Guardian Skin Confirmed!

3TWarriorJul 14, 20152 votes

I think riot's idea of "balance" is more of both sides having the same k/d/a until team fight stage XD

The Hate BoatJul 14, 20151 votes

Shen is a very effective tank. Hell, he's seeing play in LCS while Galio and Mundo aren't.

Mundo has regen? Shen has sustain on his Q. Galio and Shen both take 50% reduced damage from targets they taunt. Braum and Shen both mitigate damage, one with a shield and the other with...well, also a shield.

The problem a lot of players have with Shen is that they ignore his ultimate and try to compare his 3 non-ult spells to another champion's entire kit, which will make ANYONE look bad (well, except Udyr).

MarkedOfKaneJul 14, 20151 votes

It is the tank meta, but the TRUE tank champions don't fit in, simply because they are outclassed.

Shen and Mundo can be super hard to kill, but they can be ignored somewhat.

Mundo has a slow. Nautilus has an AOE slow, A root, A hook, An AOE knockup

Shen has an AOE taunt and cant really put out damage. Amumu has an AOE root and a stun. Amumu also can put out some good damage.

Another true tank champion is Sion. He is capable of putting out some damage, but it can be avoided. He also has two AOE knockups.

To me, an effective tank needs to be one of two things (or both)

-Tanky and can put out damage

-Tanky with good CC

A champion that is just very hard to kill doesn't really come in handy(They are the best for tanking a tower though, but others can do it almost as good). Assassins can jump right on your carry or whoever, Mundo is just going to put on some damage and be super tanky, but nobody is going to focus the Mundo anyways. Nautilus could knockup that assassin, root him and get him killed super easily.

Shen is really cool, but I think he needs a little more CC or something. Maybe if he lands his Q, his target will be stunned if he autos them 3 times while it is marked. Something like that. Could make his build a little more interesting.

ExecutorDillJul 14, 20151 votes

I totally agree, shen is the most effective at taking enemies off his carries. But he only has one 1.5sec taunt. I believe he needs another form of CC to be a good tank a root would be nice.

I think Naut is an honourable mention. To me he sets the bar for tanking.

Bears Dont CareJul 14, 20151 votes

Galio has seen play actually in the LCS

MajinBuutcheeksJul 14, 20151 votes

As someone who plays a lot of Shen top (and occasionally jg or supp), I do agree Shen needs some items before he can truly start to tank because his kit does not offer insane health regen or increased resistance etc. like you mentioned. I don't build AP on him and max his shield last (especially since taunt now reduces energy cost in addition to cooldown if you level it up), so the shield does seem lackluster at first. However, I still feel he's an amazing tank. If you're even in lane and you come back with a bami's cinder, you're already tanky enough to fight most bruisers. Getting a Sunfire Cape and Spirit Visage is honestly all you need to start tanking like a beast. In lane, if you're Q+Autoing to last hit some minions and shielding poke in time with W, you actually have pretty decent sustain. 1.5% of your Max HP plus some flat amount over 3 seconds isn't Garen levels of sustain, but it'll keep you in lane. I think they haven't given him the same abilities that buff stats/healing as they did other champs simply because of his amazing ultimate. Imagine you hit level 6 and port down bot lane, turn the tides and get them a double by taunting the adc and supp, and then TP back to lane with 2 assists like no big deal. Not to mention his Q doesn't give as much regen as let's say maokai passive because anyone on your team who autos the target will get that regen too. His W can tank 1-2 tower shots once you get your sunfire, visage, and ninja tabi as well, just because you're tanky enough that towers wont do as much damage to you.

In short, he may not be the ideal champion to tank tons of damage, and doesn't have as great health regen and stat increasing abilities, and yes he does need some core items to really get going, but he's got a lot of playmaking potential and offers a lot of utility to his team. I think he's in a fine spot right now, especially with the most recent buffs he received.

ExecutorDillJul 14, 20151 votes

He is going get a gameplay update ya know? RiotScruffy has mentioned this in a thread i will link

MajinBuutcheeksJul 14, 20151 votes

Oh really? I had no idea. o_o Was this recent?

ExecutorDillJul 14, 20151 votes

He mentioned it 3 months ago. So anyone who feels shen is good right now is fooling themselves because riot has acknowledged he needs work both vu and gameplay.

MajinBuutcheeksJul 14, 20151 votes

Do you have a link to where this was mentioned?

ExecutorDillJul 14, 20151 votes

Here you go bro: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/9tNOPRJQ-update-for-the-champion-update-schedule?comment=000300050001

Tell me when you see it :]

MajinBuutcheeksJul 14, 20151 votes

Oh cool. Yeah shen's laning is pretty dull (toss Q and passive-empowered auto when you can). I'm glad they're keeping his E and R while still tweaking his kit. I'm looking forward to seeing how they rework him

Doctor JarvisJul 14, 20152 votes

They don't rework champs because they're bad, they rework them if their kits are dumb. If a kit is dumb that leads to the assumption the champ is underpowered at times, but its not true The Urgot rework is still coming even though Urgot is thought of as a real champion again, as one example.

XonraJul 14, 20151 votes

I would honestly say no. The energy cost of his shield is still too high. He is situationally good, but I don't see him as a full tank, but more of an off tank.

If you already have a tank, Shen can be a great compliment to them, but I don't see him as someone who can be your teams front line tank without someone else there mitigating damage or soaking up abilities.

arc95Jul 14, 20151 votes

he is getting a lot of play in the LCS... if he wasn't effective that wouldnt happen...but moreoever what sets shen apart is his taunt,split pushing ability as tank, and his global ult (not many abilities have the ability to win/turn around a game like his ult does) not necessarily his tankyness

NemeBroJul 14, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Shen cannot soak up tons of damage without items. And he does not have high regeneration, resistant or negetion abilities like , , respectively. Now we have how can regenerate a big portions of the health he lost pr gain a shield thats as big as his hp bar.

And they tell me that I am to overlook that because Shen has a low cooldown shield and a gap closing cc. Bah hum bug! No energy spam an ability and if they do, they won't be able to use other abilities.

Shen's tankability needs reassessing because this Tanky ninja isn't tanky at all.

Shen is tankier than Dr. Mundo without items in the early game. Shen is one of the best anti-snowball walls you can take top lane. He has a spammable shield and sustain. He's just not a good initiator, so you shouldn't use him unless you have another tank to initiate.