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if you don't have liandry's you're doing mid wrong

The Bard Dog··0 votes·805 views

sure, most champions scale with ap really well, and you want a rabadons, zhonya's, and dfg for the most ap possible. what i've noticed though, is that you don't even NEED more than 400 ap. if you have a liandry's a void staff you're doing the same damage as all of those pricey items earlier in the game, and also to tanks who build mr against you. not to mention that nice %health tick you get from liandrys makes the difference between a lost trade and a won one. it breaks my heart when i see people play azir, brand, kat, karma, etc. and not pick up this basic item set that works for every mid. here's the set so that you don't break my heart any more than you have.

  1. tear/chalice
  2. liandry's
  3. sorcerer's shoes
  4. voidstaff
  5. rabadons
  6. zhonya's/rylai's/dfg

this is all the damage and surviveability you'll EVER need. building any more AP than this is overkill and leaves you too squish. i use this build for almost EVERY ap mid in the game, and i usually get good results barring hard matchups/lane babysitting

lol@downvotes. add some constructive ideas instead of just stupidly downvoting and moving on. it just hurts the discussion when you do that.

24 Comments

Into The Aether6 votes

Yeah.... no. The way Liandry's works is it causes current % HP burn calculated after the last spell damage you dealt to the target.

Meaning buying it early on a bursty champ makes the passive do jack-all. Even DoT-champs like Malzahar don't do a whole lot with it if you're bursting the target with Q, R and Ignite at the same time. Especially since DoT's forcibly reset the damage to the lower amount every half second.

And since going from Haunting Guise to Liandry's results in going from a highly gold-efficient item to an item that is very inefficient without it's passive, that's a lot of gold to waste on a wide, wide variety of mid lane champions.

It'll also rarely, if ever, give you a good return against your favorite prey, squishy targets.

Tanks, it'll only work well on toward the late game.

Liandry's is something you buy early on champions that synergize with it abnormally well, like Teemo. Most of his power loaded on one or two spells, so it doesn't recalculate from a lower HP amount as often, and built-in slow to exploit the burn better.

On the flipside, building Void Staff into Sorc Shoes into Haunting Guise is OP on a lot of champions, because of the interacting MR shred. If you're succeeding with that build, it isn't the Liandry's part that's doing it. It's the way penetration interacts. Postponing Liandry's to late, and getting going on a Rabadon's or something would tend to be better.

Legostrike5 votes

assasins...hmmm, zed....hmmmm...no, not seeing it

The Bard Dog1 votes

assasins...hmmm, zed....hmmmm...no, not seeing it

i said MOST mids, and you should know by the items im posting that this is a discussion for AP mids. please. add a constructive thought and not some lame sarcastic post.

Legostrike2 votes

if you don't have liandry's you're doing mid wrong

"if you don't have liandry's you're doing AP mid wrong"

fixed so you don't get people like me.

The Bard Dog1 votes

if you don't have liandry's you're doing mid wrong

"if you don't have liandry's you're doing AP mid wrong"

fixed so you don't get people like me.

by people like you do you mean trolls?

Legostrike1 votes

by people like me I mean INTJs who expect consistency and disregard anything that lacks it.

BakedLotion5 votes

You're one of those noobs who rush liandrys on kat arent you?

The Bard Dog1 votes

You're one of those noobs who rush liandrys on kat arent you?

dfg. like i said, the build is a generic build for MOST ap mids for more overall damage come end game.

A Slime Appears4 votes

I find it hard to believe void/liandries matches rabadons zhonyas and DFG. Also the latter 3 provide 2 great actives.

The Bard Dog1 votes

I find it hard to believe void/liandries matches rabadons zhonyas and DFG. Also the latter 3 provide 2 great actives.

all that magic pen makes a HUGE difference. not to mention the passive on liandry's essentially burns away 6% of their remaining hp every time you cast a spell on them. you might now outright nuke them like with rabadons zhonyas and dfg combo, but you'll win every trade and wont be so dependent on landing EVERY skill

Worgslarg3 votes

My argument against it is that fast, quick burst is the forte of the strong( in meta) mages. There's a reason that cass and vlad aren't top picks. It's because ADC's output more burst and sustained damage.

EffectFX4 votes

When you make wild baseless claims, should use math to show why you're right.

ValyrianBlade3 votes

Hmm, I mid ahri. She is an ap mid.

Don't bother building Magic pen until late because my true damage doesn't benefit from it while it benefits from ap.

DFG, rabadon's, Zhonya's, boots of lucidity, void staff, Lich bane.

No need for chalice if you manage your mana well. No need for liandry unless they're seriously stacking health. About 25% of my damage is true so I don't need magic pen, especially outside of charm+dfg damage amplification, and magic pen marks and void staff.

The Bard Dog1 votes

Hmm, I mid ahri. She is an ap mid.

Don't bother building Magic pen until late because my true damage doesn't benefit from it while it benefits from ap.

DFG, rabadon's, Zhonya's, boots of lucidity, void staff, Lich bane.

No need for chalice if you manage your mana well. No need for liandry unless they're seriously stacking health. About 25% of my damage is true so I don't need magic pen, especially outside of charm+dfg damage amplification, and magic pen marks and void staff.

like i said, it works for most mids. ahri is one that it doesn't work for on account of the true damage.

Sozan53 votes

Okay, with 1 part I do agree - and that is Void Staff. It's extremely powerful item if enemies have at least 60 MR (most enemies in late will have more than that).

However, Liandry? I think you are extremely overrating the item. Against enemy with 2000 health and 100 MR you get a maximum of 59 damage per second and that's already with Void Staff. Also, the "maximum" damage I listed here can only be applied to shields, because you need to damage your enemy first in order to apply Liandry's passive (so, if enemy have a shield at max health, that's how much damage it will deal). On average it will deal 30 damage per second (and that's a lie too, because you mostly listed bursty mages, which will first burst and then Liandry will burn whatever is left - assume that on average Liandry will deal even less damage).

If we increase the health to 3000 (which seems about right for a regular fighter) and leave 100 MR intact, it will deal 44 damage per second on average, which is of course not that bad. But it's not "great and impossible to reach with any other item". Now it all depends on your playstyle and champion:

  • You poke a lot?
  • You have low scaling?
  • You have higher dps than burst?
  • You have a lot of Dots?

If the answer is yes to most question then you should most likely get Liandry (especially with Rylai Crystal scepter if you don't have a lot of CC). If the answer is no to most question then you should probably skip on Liandry.

Examples of good champions to buy liandry on: Swain (due to his DoTs and general high DPS), Rumble (his damage takes a lot of time, and he also have two slowing abilities), Karthus (high AoE dps, has a slow in kit, but still would benefit most from Rylai), Malzahar (all his abilities take a long time to deal damage, but he also needs Rylai in this case) Examples of bad champions to buy liandry on: Fizz (high burst, generally good scalings), Veigar (also high burst champion with no slows), Syndra (has a slow, but Liandry won't deal much damage in the time needed for her burst to kill enemy champion), LeBlanc (another high burst champion)

Of course, those are just examples and I am sure there are games when you might need Liandry on Fizz or Veigar etc, and there are others where Liandry will give no real benefit even to Swain etc.

Anyway, it's a situational item that synergizes with some kits far greater than with others. Just keep that in mind.

Toothless Lion1 votes

Have another downvote. Later bronzie.

Sightless661 votes

If you play Karma with this low-cdr build I hate you.

The Bard Dog1 votes

If you play Karma with this low-cdr build I hate you.

i have cdr runes. nothing is a low cdr build once i finished athene's im always at 40%.

CerealBoxOfDoom1 votes

sure, most champions scale with ap really well, and you want a rabadons, zhonya's, and dfg for the most ap possible. what i've noticed though, is that you don't even NEED more than 400 ap. if you have a liandry's a void staff you're doing the same damage as all of those pricey items earlier in the game, and also to tanks who build mr against you. not to mention that nice %health tick you get from liandrys makes the difference between a lost trade and a won one. it breaks my heart when i see people play azir, brand, kat, karma, etc. and not pick up this basic item set that works for every mid. here's the set so that you don't break my heart any more than you have.

  1. tear/chalice
  2. liandry's
  3. sorcerer's shoes
  4. voidstaff
  5. rabadons
  6. zhonya's/rylai's/dfg

this is all the damage and surviveability you'll EVER need. building any more AP than this is overkill and leaves you too squish. i use this build for almost EVERY ap mid in the game, and i usually get good results barring hard matchups/lane babysitting

lol@downvotes. add some constructive ideas instead of just stupidly downvoting and moving on. it just hurts the discussion when you do that.

Well heres the thing

  1. youre doing the damage slower to tanks but fast enough
  2. youre only doing it to tanks and champs with a lot of stacked hp or MR and maybe both
TenSlashTen1 votes

0/10

The Bluffalo1 votes

Maximum penetration Karthus is best karthus.

9 marks of mpen 3 quints of mpen

tear>rylais>sorc boots>liandrys>void staff/zhonya>the one u didn't buy

it does sacrifice the rabadons though, unless you really want it over zhonyas.

Quepha1 votes

this basic item set that works for every mid. kat

  1. tear/chalice

thanks for the advice, i expect to be diamond soon thanks to this revelation.

Drunk Rummate1 votes

that feel when your katarina rushes liandry's

facepalm

i'm sure you're getting tons of resets with that 50 ap and %burn passive on the low hp enemy that you just bursted down which cant even kill someone

Knight SoIaire 1 votes

the item is finne but some ppl just want diferent stuff over the liandrys and do better job with it your thread is more about the perfect amount of ap that most of (ap) midders need to whack a squishy if you know this amount then you know how much offensive items you need before going ham on the defense

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