Mages are the most broken class in League. Prove me wrong.
Title ^
63 Comments
Lauchmelder16 votesYou hate mages and are biased against them... Prove me wrong.
Śhunpo3 votesHmmm, I'm just not a fan of facing constant waveclear and never-ending harass that is essentially URF mode due to almost every mage item having CDR.
Also I play Swain, Vlad and Annie, so no, I'm not really biased since I know the inverse perspective.
Slythrin Umbreon1 votes
Moody P13 votescan't prove you wrong if you're right
SithesisLord5 votesHe's not though.
Mages themselves as a class aren´t a problem.
There are a few outliers, but then again, if one would consider an entire class broken due to a few outliers then Bruisers have been broken since Conqueror's release, and arguably even before.
Mage items, safe for Lost Chapter, are mostly fine.
They aren´t contested picks in SoloQ and aren´t running rampant either.
So how exactly are mages broken?
Moody P8 votesMages as a class are strong AF right now but given the ELO discrepancy between boards and good players they don't usually notice it. part of this is that despite mages having the most rounded-out kits, save for the "safe" ones like tanky Viktor, Ryze, Liss, etc, a lot of mages still need peel and this goes double for lower ranks where players aren't as sure how to counter outplay champions like Zed
and peel supports+tanks are kind of fucked in soloQ which, much like ADCs, makes mages look weaker than they really are - in fact, a lot of mages are doing very well for themselves right now, but since there's such a big mid lane roster between mages, assassins, and a few outliers like Galio, their pick rates tend to disperse across all of those champions save for the really busted shit and the very popular Zed/Yasuo
mage mains are very vocal about their dislike for being outplayed, but they never seem to consider what it's like when that doesn't happen - mages, with the humongous raw power in their kits, are more or less the reason that outplay champions became necessary.
Śhunpo1 votes"Aren't contested picks in solo queue", ah so that's why they have decent pick rates.....
SithesisLord1 votesDefine decent.
The way i see it, for a champion to be a contested pick, its pick rate has to be at or above 10%.
The only mage with that statistic in mid is Lissandra.
In top, it's Viktor.
In jungle, none, although Taliyah comes 1.6% short of it.
In bot lane, none.
None in support either.
Śhunpo1 votesLiss Zoe Ori Ryze Veigar Malz Xerath
Those are your 3%+ pick rate picks. Liss, Zoe, Ori and Ryze are obviously the highest (Liss is FOTM atm and she's extremely strong). Also Brand support has a 5% pick rate and Zyra almost has a 4% pick rate. Those are pretty decent, and as you go further up the ranks their respective win rates spike immensely, moreso than assassins in the mid lane.
DGOT2 votesHe's not though.
Mages themselves as a class aren´t a problem.
There are a few outliers, but then again, if one would consider an entire class broken due to a few outliers then Bruisers have been broken since Conqueror's release, and arguably even before.
Mage items, safe for Lost Chapter, are mostly fine.
They aren´t contested picks in SoloQ and aren´t running rampant either.
So how exactly are mages broken?
best items in game
DODGEORLOSE5 votes
laughs in one shotgun
ƒrostγ5 votesEven their itemization is bad compared to other classes, how are they the most broken?
Śhunpo5 votes
Their itemisation is bad DansGame
ƒrostγ1 votes
Ugh, lost chapter is pretty expensive, and after those mana nerfs to mages its mandary for 90% of them. I don't know what's your problem with Luden's and Void, please explain.
Śhunpo1 votesWhat's my problem with Luden's and Void?
Well, Luden's gives 20% CDR, there's my problem with it. As for Void Staff it provides a lot of magic pen., it's rather ridiculous.
Now, for Lost Chapter. Is 1300 really that expensive? I mean mages are able to stay in lane for a good while thanks to Biscuits and/or Tonic as well as Manaflow Band. Plus, first back they could simply buy Dark Seal + Amp Tome for even more sustain. You say 1300 gold is expensive, yet ADCs, top laners and junglers can all easily get to that amount of gold. As such I'm just going to come out and say it, mid laners can make that much in one back too.
DW Diana4 votesJuggernauts:
- They're slow until the build one of the 3 items that give them more speed than anyone else
- They're base stats mean they really don't have to build anything tanky to be.... tanky
- They all have CC
- They have an item to counter anyone
- They all get free sustain
- They all get to build 1 damage item and still out damage everyone on their team.
Ragnaveil2 votes[{quoted}](name=Lord Loki1987,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KHcJcssg,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-11-22T10:14:29.111+0000)
Juggernauts: 3) They all have CC
would like to have a word with you.
kda akali3 votesMost people consider silence as CC, the only juggernaut without any CC is Mordekaiser
Ragnaveil1 votesTrue, and look at how he's panning out lmao. Tanks being thrown to the wolves effectively hurt Juggernauts in the process, and Riot honestly doesn't care. Its sad.
DaSavage091 votes
did someone say silence
is actually a no cc bruiser, unless you wanna call him a mage.
Śhunpo1 votesI can't really disagree, there are quite a lot of juggernaut outliers that are just unhealthy through and through.
Mordepool3 votes[{quoted}](name=Lord Loki1987,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KHcJcssg,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-11-22T10:14:29.111+0000)
Juggernauts:
- They're slow until the build one of the 3 items that give them more speed than anyone else
Do you mean Deadmans plate which has built in Counterplay? Triforce which is really slow build? Whats the 3rd
- They're base stats mean they really don't have to build anything tanky to be.... tanky
And yet they still build defensive items if they didnt have too they wouldnt.
- They all have CC
um what? 100% wrong
- They have an item counter anyone.
Agree to disagree. Itemization works both ways bud
- They all get free sustain
- They ALL get to build 1 damage item and still out damage everyone on their team.
Hmmm current viable build atm
Your generalizing and very illogical in your approach
Śhunpo1 votesI do think that Mord is kinda separate to the other "juggernauts". They never really "fixed" him to make him a proper juggernaut as he still builds carry-based items. As such I'm willing to classify him as an exception. He's more like an assassin if anything since Flash->3rd Q combo seems to be his main way of killing squishies.
Mordepool1 votesIf you were going to reclassify him as anything he would be a Battle mage.
But as it stands hes a juggernaut
Śhunpo1 votesI really don't see how he's a juggernaut when he just explodes the moment you hit him outside of lane.
Mordepool1 votesMordes defensive steriod is dependant on Cooldown reduction. Guess how many items Morde synergizes with that have CD reduction.
Ragnaveil1 votesOr the excessive amount of harmful bugs his kit has. Answer is probably almost a million. (Jesting, but still a ton)
Mordepool1 votes 
All core items in Mordes builds all lack CDR. Its not unheard of to be 30minutes into a game with Zero CDR.
Bugs aside i figure i would reiterate my point
Śhunpo4 votesOk, well since you all require reasons, here you go:
-
Constant waveclear
-
Harass that keeps on going and going and going....and going....
-
They never run out of mana anymore (pretty much explains what I have an issue with in terms of 1+2)
-
Too much CDR within their item builds (again, this pretty much explains 1+2)
-
They hardly ever see nerfs, and if they do they're minor and they're immediately buffed back up to viability for pro play
-
They do an equal amount if not more damage than most assassins, bruisers, divers and ADCs (until they hit late game), and all that is done from medium-far range(s) [also consider point 4 here wink wink], this is also why you're seeing quite a few mages work extremely well as supports (among other reasons)
-
They still have targeted abilities within their kit (a lot of them anyways) while other classes keep losing targeted damage due to it being "unhealthy". Mage players constantly defend this by saying "but our other 3 abilities are skillshots", when in reality it doesn't matter since champs like Syndra, Veigar, Annie, Brand and Lissandra can royally fuck up their combo and then still either be useful by one-shotting you anyways (Veigar, Brand, Syndra) or by CC'ing you despite missing abilities (mages such as Lissandra and Malzahar). Why do mages still have targeted abilities when mage players themselves are constantly complaining about champions such as Leblanc and old Katarina who had targeted damage? If it's so unhealthy then remove it from ALL classes. Seriously, I'm sick of targeted damage in general myself. Nothing is more infuriating than seeing a Veigar or Brand miss all their other combo abilities only to press R and still one-tap me (yes I'm counting Brands R bounces as a one tap) or having Lissandra lock me down for almost 2 seconds with a point and click mini-nuke.
-
A lot of their items grant HP, leading to mages having almost 3k or over 3k HP past level 11.
I personally do think that mages are essential in this game and they should always be viable, however as they are now they are fundamentally broken, not overpowered, just they don't have the weaknesses they used to. There's too much CDR and mana regen in the game for their true weaknesses to actually matter in the grand scheme of things. That, and there's the constant powercreep for every mage since Riot seems to love reducing their cooldowns and mana costs (although thankfully when it gets into overpowered territory they'll nerf those two aspects cough Swain cough).
I'm just raising this argument since the Boards seems to genuinely dislike assassins and bruisers, claiming that they're broken, anti-fun and degenerative. As such I thought it right to present an opinion inverse to this since that's the best way to have a two-sided conversation.
en2que2 votesThey hardly ever see nerfs
S8 was riot literally blaming on mages for everything. They got their mana growth gutted. They got their core item's component price increased by 400 and are now totally outscaled by assassins.
"But man, they are better late!" Yea, lategame in s8 LUL.
Śhunpo2 votesAnd they also got , a better , a better , a better 
(gutted now, but they DID abuse it), 
got mega buffed and they also got Glacial Augment, Manaflow Band, even more cooldown reduction on every one of their major items bar Morello, D.cap and Void, they got 
, more in-lane sustain with Tonic and/or Biscuits and they had their competition nerfed outside of LB (don't worry though, she'll be seeing the nerf hammer pretty soon since everyone hates her as she is) and Akali+Irelia who both are tearing it up and will HOPEFULLY see some major nerfs.
But yeah, outside of Akali, Irelia and LB mages have it easy. Their mana growth being gutted doesn't even matter due to Manaflow Band and the other aforementioned sustain options, and the moment a mage picks up Lost Chapter they're never leaving lane cause of going OOM.
Warlord Rhinark3 votesMages with mobility are the most broken class in League.
FTFY
Śhunpo1 votesNot exactly. But yes, mages with mobility are problematic. Case and point, Azir.
Dope Solo2 votes??
??
??
??
Śhunpo1 votesI don't think they quite represent their entire class, they're extremely gross oddities.
MrFawknSunshine1 voteshow bout you prove they are broken , you are making the claim burden of proof is on you
chipndip12 votesNo one gives a shit about proving anything until its convenient for themselves.
This guy has every right to spew bullshit on these boards. Everyone else does.
MrFawknSunshine1 votesyou been spamming dark harvest sona ?
chipndip11 votesNo. I haven't even played Sona yet this preseason.
MrFawknSunshine1 votesdark harvest is broken LUL
The JigSAW1 votesShun po cast time, eh? What about 
and his E cast time? 0.5 seconds at rank 1, 0.1 (one-tenth of a second) at rank 5. Four second impenetrable wind wall, a shield that regenerates during combat and resets entirely at 100% on ult, a Q with 100% lifesteal effect with a ranged AOE knockup every 1.3 seconds at rank 5 and about 3.7 at rank 1.
What about an assassin with true damage built into his kit who cannot be slowed attack or movement speed wise while he ults, and every kill or assist makes that ult last another seven seconds up to -35- seconds in length? 
Remember, his bio and all Riot official listings have him as -assassin- not as a skirmisher, which is what Yasuo is. Yi can also meditate for five seconds, healing for hundreds of health and blocking 50% of incoming damage (25% on turrets) while charging his passive, pausing ult, and pausing his E active.
Or someone with a built-in Warmog's passive only better and procs faster with a built-in Black Cleaver for an E, a built-in Gargoyle Stoneplate for a W passive, and a spammable Q with movement boost/slow removal/1.5 second silence/over 1.0 AD scaling damage basic attack who deals true damage to "Villains" and max missing health magic damage to the rest of the team and can tank 27 turret shots with 2 tank items? And of course, he has no mana. That'd be our juggernaut
There is a champion in this game who cannot die for five seconds 
no matter what you do, outside of that he can be dealt with. Once he clicks the button, you cannot kill him until its gone. Period.
Now, as far as mages being broken, let's talk about all the nerfs the mages have gotten since pre-season 6 in 2016. This is not a comprehensive list, mind you.
- Removal of multiple mana regen per 5 items
- Removal of mana potions
- Reworking of Abyssal Scepter into Abyssal Mask, removing a staple of mages for a while.
- Reworking of Morellonomicon to remove 20% max mana restoration on kill or assist
- Removal of 1.5% mana restore per 5 mastery, which was nerfed to 1.25% and then changed to 1% on Manaflow Band with Runes Reforged
- AP and health nerfs on Rylai's Crystal Scepter along with slow decrease
- Zhonya's Hourglass nerfed from 120 to 75 AP
- Luden's Echo nerfed from 100 AP to 90 AP
- Mage shield reduction in length in one patch (Janna, Lulu, Sona, etc)
- Rod of Ages/Catalyst level up reward health/mana nerfed to health on cast and mana on damage taken, with significant caps
- Doran's Ring removing mana on unit kill, leaving early game near useless
- Removal of all flat AP/scaling AP runes and masteries, leaving mages with about 10-20 AP MAXIMUM starting out
- Removal of Will of the Ancients preventing any spellvamp/healing of significance
- Nerfing of Domination's Ravenous Hunter which directly effects early game of mages and assassins alike
- Nerfing of Void Staff flat AP
So when Riot addresses the first four examples of actual broken mechanics, then you can talk to me about mages.
Śhunpo1 votes" What about and his E cast time? 0.5 seconds at rank 1, 0.1 (one-tenth of a second) at rank 5."
That's a cooldown, not a cast time.
"Four second impenetrable wind wall, a shield that regenerates during combat and resets entirely at 100% on ult, a Q with 100% lifesteal effect with a ranged AOE knockup every 1.3 seconds at rank 5 and about 3.7 at rank 1."
Yes, Yasuo is a fundamentally broken champ.
"What about an assassin with true damage built into his kit who cannot be slowed attack or movement speed wise while he ults, and every kill or assist makes that ult last another seven seconds up to -35- seconds in length? Remember, his bio and all Riot official listings have him as -assassin- not as a skirmisher, which is what Yasuo is. Yi can also meditate for five seconds, healing for hundreds of health and blocking 50% of incoming damage (25% on turrets) while charging his passive, pausing ult, and pausing his E active."
Yes, Yi is a walking balance problem.
"Or someone with a built-in Warmog's passive only better and procs faster with a built-in Black Cleaver for an E, a built-in Gargoyle Stoneplate for a W passive, and a spammable Q with movement boost/slow removal/1.5 second silence/over 1.0 AD scaling damage basic attack who deals true damage to "Villains" and max missing health magic damage to the rest of the team and can tank 27 turret shots with 2 tank items? And of course, he has no mana. That'd be our juggernaut "
Again, I agree, he's a balance problem and unfair to play against.
"There is a champion in this game who cannot die for five seconds no matter what you do, outside of that he can be dealt with. Once he clicks the button, you cannot kill him until its gone. Period."
And I hope they look into reworking him.
Your 4 examples aren't a surprise to me I know they're broken, but they do not define their entire class(es). However I can acknowledge that they're broken.
Also don't forget to include and in that list as they are THE most broken champions in the game atm.
The JigSAW1 votesI'm glad we have common ground, and my bad on the cast time.
Now here's the thing. Mages have nearly no movement speed or escape as a class, which is their inherent weakness. Almost every other class has high movement speed items, such as Phage into TF or BC that gives 20-60 movement speed on hit or kill of a unit. Let's take a look at ten mages (Akali is an assassin so let's leave her in that class)
Veigar - Super powerful if he's allowed to farm much like Nasus but without lifesteal/spellvamp from level 1. No escape, if he's caught he's basically killed instantly depending on the health.
Syndra - Good range, good to excellent damage, but again no escape - she misses her stun or you use a cleanse like QSS you're able to jump her and beat her down.
Xerath - Ridiculous range but early on damage isn't so good. No escape, easy to kill if you close the gap (and doing so early and often puts him significantly behind)
Orianna - Good damage and range but no escape whatsoever. If she makes a wrong move, she's toast in two hits.
Ryze - Good damage and extremely heavy mana usage early-mid game - powerful if he's built and played well, but his only escape is his ult and it can be interrupted.
Fiddlesticks - Great CC and good range but if you catch him with his Q or E on cooldown he's easily killed. Mostly used jungle or support as it is these days.
Ahri - Good range, good to great damage, ult can dash up to three times but her E is a skillshot, not a right-click. I won't say she needs a nerf on her movement because frankly, she needs it to keep up with the ridiculous speed of juggernauts or fighters with cleaver and dead man's plate
So in the end, much like ADCs, mages are strong if they can farm and get kills/assists for gold. However, they have little escape route options and their abilities cost tremendously more than AD champions. I'd think the juggernaut or skirmisher classes are far more broken, but mages seem to be treated like the red-headed stepchildren of League as it is.
Also, I actually wish Irelia and Akali would be reverted. Old Akali, for me, was far more fun and lethal to play. I've never had much problem with new Akali or Irelia, but I can see how people would have issues with them. Riot's nerfing them anyway next patch so you got your wish.
notMineskiexo1 votes[{quoted}](name=The JigSAW,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KHcJcssg,comment-id=000c00000000,timestamp=2018-11-27T16:42:31.731+0000)
I'm glad we have common ground, and my bad on the cast time.
Now here's the thing. Mages have nearly no movement speed or escape as a class, which is their inherent weakness. Almost every other class has high movement speed items, such as Phage into TF or BC that gives 20-60 movement speed on hit or kill of a unit. Let's take a look at ten mages (Akali is an assassin so let's leave her in that class)
Veigar - Super powerful if he's allowed to farm much like Nasus but without lifesteal/spellvamp from level 1. No escape, if he's caught he's basically killed instantly depending on the health. Syndra - Good range, good to excellent damage, but again no escape - she misses her stun or you use a cleanse like QSS you're able to jump her and beat her down. Xerath - Ridiculous range but early on damage isn't so good. No escape, easy to kill if you close the gap (and doing so early and often puts him significantly behind) Orianna - Good damage and range but no escape whatsoever. If she makes a wrong move, she's toast in two hits. Ryze - Good damage and extremely heavy mana usage early-mid game - powerful if he's built and played well, but his only escape is his ult and it can be interrupted.
Fiddlesticks - Great CC and good range but if you catch him with his Q or E on cooldown he's easily killed. Mostly used jungle or support as it is these days. Ahri - Good range, good to great damage, ult can dash up to three times but her E is a skillshot, not a right-click. I won't say she needs a nerf on her movement because frankly, she needs it to keep up with the ridiculous speed of juggernauts or fighters with cleaver and dead man's plateSo in the end, much like ADCs, mages are strong if they can farm and get kills/assists for gold. However, they have little escape route options and their abilities cost tremendously more than AD champions. I'd think the juggernaut or skirmisher classes are far more broken, but mages seem to be treated like the red-headed stepchildren of League as it is.
Also, I actually wish Irelia and Akali would be reverted. Old Akali, for me, was far more fun and lethal to play. I've never had much problem with new Akali or Irelia, but I can see how people would have issues with them. Riot's nerfing them anyway next patch so you got your wish.
Isn’t 
a mage item?
Śhunpo1 votesIt's moreso a niche pickup for mages and a situational item for AP supports.
notMineskiexo1 votesIt's moreso a niche pickup for mages and a situational item for AP supports.
Ah so it wouldn't qualify as a "high tier" mobility item then I got you.
TheFailingMonkey1 votes[{quoted}](name=The JigSAW,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KHcJcssg,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2018-11-27T04:24:26.959+0000)
Shun po cast time, eh? What about
What about an assassin with true damage built into his kit who cannot be slowed attack or movement speed wise while he ults, and every kill or assist makes that ult last another seven seconds up to -35- seconds in length?
Or someone with a built-in Warmog's passive only better and procs faster with a built-in Black Cleaver for an E, a built-in Gargoyle Stoneplate for a W passive, and a spammable Q with movement boost/slow removal/1.5 second silence/over 1.0 AD scaling damage basic attack who deals true damage to "Villains" and max missing health magic damage to the rest of the team and can tank 27 turret shots with 2 tank items? And of course, he has no mana. That'd be our juggernaut
There is a champion in this game who cannot die for five seconds
Now, as far as mages being broken, let's talk about all the nerfs the mages have gotten since pre-season 6 in 2016. This is not a comprehensive list, mind you.
- Removal of multiple mana regen per 5 items
- Removal of mana potions
- Reworking of Abyssal Scepter into Abyssal Mask, removing a staple of mages for a while.
- Reworking of Morellonomicon to remove 20% max mana restoration on kill or assist
- Removal of 1.5% mana restore per 5 mastery, which was nerfed to 1.25% and then changed to 1% on Manaflow Band with Runes Reforged
- AP and health nerfs on Rylai's Crystal Scepter along with slow decrease
- Zhonya's Hourglass nerfed from 120 to 75 AP
- Luden's Echo nerfed from 100 AP to 90 AP
- Mage shield reduction in length in one patch (Janna, Lulu, Sona, etc)
- Rod of Ages/Catalyst level up reward health/mana nerfed to health on cast and mana on damage taken, with significant caps
- Doran's Ring removing mana on unit kill, leaving early game near useless
- Removal of all flat AP/scaling AP runes and masteries, leaving mages with about 10-20 AP MAXIMUM starting out
- Removal of Will of the Ancients preventing any spellvamp/healing of significance
- Nerfing of Domination's Ravenous Hunter which directly effects early game of mages and assassins alike
- Nerfing of Void Staff flat AP
So when Riot addresses the first four examples of actual broken mechanics, then you can talk to me about mages.
You know, everything you just mentioned all have very specific circumstances that not to mention, EVERYONE PUTS UP WITH NOT JUST MAGES. Still have counter play e.g. master yi always shows up behind the target creature. garen is just running at you so that's just ez skillshots. Yasuo is easy to gank, plus he can only dash if he has minions. Tryndamere is r%%%%%ed nobody like fighting regardless of class. But all those item changes rito has made for mages have already been compensated. You can literally compare 
and just to see that mages nerfs don't mean shit.
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