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Why hasn't Teemo been taken off Free Rotation pending Rework, Riot?

v good pupper··2 votes·1,251 views

Yorick and Poppy have both been taken off of free rotation due to them having anti-fun kits, pending their reworks. These champions are seen as hard to play against, and hard to understand the counter play to for newer players.

Teemo is a champion that Riot designers at PAX South this year admitted had frustration as a unique outcome. If a champion designed to be frustrating to fight against isn't anti-fun i'm not sure what is. Teemo is known to be difficult to lane against, simply block off parts of the map to his enemy team, and to cause people who are walking around to suddenly lose half their health unless they relentlessly pink ward and sweeper in front of every step in Teemo's area.

Further still, Teemo isn't picked generally as a serious champion due to his lack of ability to teamfight, and is seen as a troll pick. A champion whose only purpose is to frustrate and is widely known as useless outside of lane seems a strong candidate for the Poppy/Yorick treatment. In a game about having fun, why is a character made to frustrate so ignored and left to be an irritation?

11 Comments

OhOkYea1 votes

So no one will ever get to play yorick or poppy unless they blow hard to get IP or expensive RP on them?

Teemo should be removed from the game pending deletion and all records of teemo's existence should be deleted including all records of matches played with him ever in the history of LoL.

Traust1 votes

There is a Summoner for every champion, and a champion frustrating for 1 person is not for another. With game experience comes greater insight on counterplay and play style habits which makes champions easier to predict.

I love playing Teemo for the global fear factor and for being underestimated, and I love playing against him because there are so many counters that shut him out for the entire game.

Dyonas1 votes

{quoted}

There is a Summoner for every champion, and a champion frustrating for 1 person is not for another. With game experience comes greater insight on counterplay and play style habits which makes champions easier to predict.

I love playing Teemo for the global fear factor and for being underestimated, and I love playing against him because there are so many counters that shut him out for the entire game.

Counters such as... ? He isn't fun to play against, ever. A blind, high damage poison passive ability, a movement speed boost and 10 minute (!!!!!) invisible, high damage slowing nukes with the only limit on amount being his mana. I don't really care about his team fight potential it's just his entire kit is built around frustrating anyone you are against.

Ice Weasel X2 votes

{quoted}

Counters such as... ?

Summoner's Rift: Pink Wards, Sweeping/Oracle's Lens Twisted Treeline, Crystal Scar, Howling Abyss: Hextech Sweeper, Lightbringer, Oracle's Extract

He isn't fun to play against, ever.

He can be hilarious to play against when the person playing him assumes you're one of the many who fear Teemo.

A blind

Useless if you're not reliant on AAs

high damage poison passive ability

Countered by MR

a movement speed boost

Nothing special here

and 10 minute (!!!!!) invisible, high damage slowing nukes with the only limit on amount being his mana.

Incorrect. They aren't nukes. They are strictly damage over time, which doesn't stack (duration merely resets when popping another). They are limited not just by mana, but by recharge time. The absolute lowest time it takes to recharge a mushroom is 16.2 seconds (40% CDR), and he can only hold three at a time. Most players don't even max his CDR. The only way to have a full minefield is to be left alone long enough to recharge and place them.

It's actually quite annoying when you play Teemo and your teammates keep yelling at you to place mushrooms when you don't have any.

This actually brings up another type of counterplay that most people don't realize. If you have been poisoned by a shroom and cannot escape death due to a lack of heals or shields, facecheck every likely shroom location in range before you die. Hitting another shroom won't accelerate your death, but taking out extra shrooms before you die will wreck Teemo's coverage. Don't overestimate the amount of damage from one shroom, though. If Teemo has 200AP and you're at 50%HP, don't do this. You'll feed him an unnecessary kill.

I don't really care about his team fight potential it's just his entire kit is built around frustrating anyone you are against.

He's unique. I like him.

Dyonas1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ice Weasel X,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KEubOsFH,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2015-03-03T09:17:18.629+0000)

Summoner's Rift: Pink Wards, Sweeping/Oracle's Lens This was the same argument used against Akali. Pink ward 100 gold per, trinket upgrade 250 gold. Not a lot but only good enough to clear if he's not near and you can only place them in one spot. Sweeper? Limited use for the same reason.

He can be hilarious to play against when the person playing him assumes you're one of the many who fear Teemo. So not really fun at all, as I said.

Useless if you're not reliant on AAs Which is basically every champion early game and still a lot later on. Oh you're about to get that minion? Have a blind! You've now missed that minion plus another few if they were also low.

Countered by MR Nope. Reduced threat until he gets magic pen and it doesn't stop him being a royal pain in the ass with 10 minute invisible nukes.

Incorrect. They aren't nukes. They are strictly damage over time, which doesn't stack (duration merely resets when popping another). They are limited not just by mana, but by recharge time. Slow acting nukes but still nukes. They hurt a lot, slow you a lot and as you say the duration is just extended / reset by hitting another. You misinterpret what I meant by limits. There is no limit of, for example, 3 traps like Caitlyn has. He can place as many as his mana allows. It is not fun to spend lots of gold and sweeper uses just to make an area safe from them. Clear them out? Here are more to replace them! Pink ward? Free money and he'll just replace them again.

It's actually quite annoying when you play Teemo and your teammates keep yelling at you to place mushrooms when you don't have any. What's annoying is having a Teemo in the game. Period.

This actually brings up another type of counterplay that most people don't realize. If you have been poisoned by a shroom and cannot escape death due to a lack of heals or shields, facecheck every likely shroom location in range before you die. Hitting another shroom won't accelerate your death, but taking out extra shrooms before you die will wreck Teemo's coverage. Don't overestimate the amount of damage from one shroom, though. If Teemo has 200AP and you're at 50%HP, don't do this. You'll feed him an unnecessary kill.

He's unique. I like him. Yeah because nobody else gets to have 100% stealth by not moving a few seconds or invisible, high damage dots that last 10 minutes. Did I mention they last 10 minutes? You may like him, others may like him, but that doesn't make him fun to play against. He's only slightly less frustrating that Shaco to play against.

Ice Weasel X2 votes

{quoted}

This was the same argument used against Akali. Pink ward 100 gold per, trinket upgrade 250 gold. Not a lot but only good enough to clear if he's not near and you can only place them in one spot. Sweeper? Limited use for the same reason.

And yet, you can clear multiple traps. Upgraded sweeper gives you a full 10 seconds to run around with True Vision. With a coordinated team, you can easily take down over 5 mushrooms in that 10 seconds. Teemo can only recharge 2-4 mushrooms during its 75 second cooldown.

So not really fun at all, as I said.

It really is a lot of fun, for some of us.

Which is basically every champion early game and still a lot later on. Oh you're about to get that minion? Have a blind! You've now missed that minion plus another few if they were also low.

If Teemo's using his skills against you when you're CSing, why aren't you doing the same? So he made you miss a minion. Make him miss one. Most Teemos also max E first. In laning phase, this means a blind typically only blocks one autoattack. As many have found out, autoattacks already in progress don't get blocked. Many top laners have empowered autoattack effects that apply regardless of blind.

Nope. Reduced threat until he gets magic pen and it doesn't stop him being a royal pain in the ass with 10 minute invisible nukes.

Every champ's magic damage is a "reduced threat until he gets magic pen." That doesn't mean you shouldn't get magic resistance to deal with it.

Slow acting nukes but still nukes. They hurt a lot, slow you a lot and as you say the duration is just extended / reset by hitting another. You misinterpret what I meant by limits. There is no limit of, for example, 3 traps like Caitlyn has. He can place as many as his mana allows. It is not fun to spend lots of gold and sweeper uses just to make an area safe from them. Clear them out? Here are more to replace them! Pink ward? Free money and he'll just replace them again.

You're completely ignoring the recharge timer. At max rank and CDR, he can recharge less than 3 per minute. The only way he's laying a thick minefield down is if you're leaving him alone to do so. The limit is 40 mushrooms, and only if he has max CDR. Many Teemos only have 20% CDR from either Nashor's Tooth or Morellonomicon. The limit in that case is 30 mushrooms. That sounds like a lot, but that requires a full 10 minutes of uninterrupted mining. In most cases, it's not possible to do that mapwide, since they'll be discovered/triggered long before the 10 minutes are complete. Some Teemos opt to focus on a section of the map and mine it heavily. What smart players do when they discover this is focus a different section of the map.

Slow pushing is a tactic used by pros and casuals alike. This can also be used for anti-Teemo plays. Let your minions swarm up and march down a lane while you have the enemy occupied elsewhere. Then when they've made some progress, charge down the minion lane where they've pathed. This often works better than following the minions directly, because you move faster than they do and you consolidate yourselves into a nice target for the enemy.

What's annoying is having a Teemo in the game. Period. Yeah because nobody else gets to have 100% stealth by not moving a few seconds or invisible, high damage dots that last 10 minutes. Did I mention they last 10 minutes? You may like him, others may like him, but that doesn't make him fun to play against. He's only slightly less frustrating that Shaco to play against.

He's fun to play against, because it's fun being able to counter a champ that people insist has no counterplay. I've never lost to Teemo on Summoner's Rift (closest to a loss was a Teemo vs. Teemo game), and have more wins than losses against him on Howling Abyss.

Abyssphere1 votes

{quoted}

Counters such as... ? He isn't fun to play against, ever. A blind, high damage poison passive ability, a movement speed boost and 10 minute (!!!!!) invisible, high damage slowing nukes with the only limit on amount being his mana. I don't really care about his team fight potential it's just his entire kit is built around frustrating anyone you are against.

A blind is a very weak type of crowd control that is strictly weaker than most others, literally everyone that hopes to do damage has a "high damage" skill and I don't see what's so bad about the fact that his comes from poison and a speed boost is the single least impressive/annoying form of mobility there is.

Shrooms are annoying but you seem to think the rest of his kit is annoying just because it's Teemo. If not then I dread to hear what you think of Cassiopeia's Q - poison and a speed boost in one move.

Dyonas1 votes

{quoted}

A blind is a very weak type of crowd control that is strictly weaker than most others, literally everyone that hopes to do damage has a "high damage" skill and I don't see what's so bad about the fact that his comes from poison and a speed boost is the single least impressive/annoying form of mobility there is.

Shrooms are annoying but you seem to think the rest of his kit is annoying just because it's Teemo. If not then I dread to hear what you think of Cassiopeia's Q - poison and a speed boost in one move.

The whole thread is about how frustrating he is to play against, not how powerful he is in general. I know all about Cass and I also know how to play against her. I was commenting on how frustrating his kit is and is just plain anti-fun / built around frustration. Blind? Can't attack early. Poison DoT? Run away. Speed boost to catch up, more poison, more blind. Somehow get past that and are about to kill him in a close match? Blind and shroom at your feet. Follow and die or retreat and have more poison blind with a speed boost should you get out of range.

That is frustrating.

Abyssphere1 votes

{quoted}

The whole thread is about how frustrating he is to play against, not how powerful he is in general. I know all about Cass and I also know how to play against her. I was commenting on how frustrating his kit is and is just plain anti-fun / built around frustration. Blind? Can't attack early. Poison DoT? Run away. Speed boost to catch up, more poison, more blind. Somehow get past that and are about to kill him in a close match? Blind and shroom at your feet. Follow and die or retreat and have more poison blind with a speed boost should you get out of range.

That is frustrating.

But I don't get why it's frustrating. Blinds are good in early trading but I don't get how they're more frustrating than any other kind of crowd control available early. I'd rather a blind than a stun or knockup. Don't really get the poison part still, do you just hate DOT? And I don't get why a speed boost is so frustrating when someone like Riven can just chase after you with dashes.

I didn't think you were saying he was overpowered, I just don't get why you find his mechanics so frustrating because outside of his shrooms they're either inoffensive (poison) or blatantly less difficult to play against than similar mechanics (speed boost is the weakest form of mobility, blind is among the less crippling CCs). I'm just failing to see the problems with his kit outside of R.

v good pupper1 votes

{quoted}

There is a Summoner for every champion, and a champion frustrating for 1 person is not for another. With game experience comes greater insight on counterplay and play style habits which makes champions easier to predict.

I love playing Teemo for the global fear factor and for being underestimated, and I love playing against him because there are so many counters that shut him out for the entire game.

I do understand what he brings to the table and that he can be fun to play. I'm just not sure he's honestly healthy for the game and that he shouldn't be on free rotation for the same reason as Poppy and Yorick aren't.

IcyPepper1 votes

Because Rito sold their souls to ~~Teemo ~~Satan.

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