Don't yell at me telling me to stop playing around with the tank and focus their back line. Listen, tanks DO damage. Some are supposed to do damage or else there would be no point to really having one on your team. If a tank like 
etc charges for me, I cant just ignore them. I have to either try to kite them to where the fight is, disengage or fight depending on the situation. But I cannot just ignore them or else they'll just kill me.
Der Lindwurm37 votesMy favorite is when you go for a backline assassination or engage to tie up an enemy carry and quickly find yourself in a 1 v 4.
Wait a minute, what happened to the rest of your team? They've all been forced back down the lane by the one (1) enemy tank they don't know how to deal with.
Thefrostyviking16 votesDont know how to deal with?
I know exactly how to deal with tanks, issue is, it might involve a lot of time depending on which champs are in play x)''
MF+Sona+TF wont kill that enemy Seju diving them in the coming minutes without help x)'
Meanwhile, those Varus+lulu+Cassio will have seju running for her life within 15-30 seconds depending on builds.
Automated Riven25 votes15-20 is super super generous. Try like 5-7
M00ndanc310 votesamen. whenever I play a tank I'll shit my self at the sight of a fucking cassiopia. liandries, rylies and a void staff and shes melting me like butter through an adaptive helm while im permaslowed and can't engage/disingage because of her grounding
My Waifu Vanilla3 votesThat's what happens when a late game hyper carry gets 4+ items since she also is basically forced to have the 3200g AA Staff at that point as well.
ZapMyHeart4 votes[{quoted}](name=My Waifu Vanilla,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KEYJRQvQ,comment-id=00040001000000000000,timestamp=2018-03-29T22:03:49.921+0000)
That's what happens when a late game hyper carry gets 4+ items since she also is basically forced to have the 3200g AA Staff at that point as well.
Meanwhile, the lategame ADC hypercarry becomes late game at 2 items...
My Waifu Vanilla6 votesI mean even at Archangel's+Liandries Cassio is going to shred a tank since chances are the tank has ZERO MR at this point since they are also.....on 2 items. This goes both ways so you don't have to randomly insert a adc circle jerk red herring for no reason.
ZapMyHeart1 votes[{quoted}](name=My Waifu Vanilla,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KEYJRQvQ,comment-id=0004000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-03-30T03:41:12.381+0000)
I mean even at Archangel's+Liandries Cassio is going to shred a tank since chances are the tank has ZERO MR at this point since they are also.....on 2 items. This goes both ways so you don't have to randomly insert a adc circle jerk red herring for no reason.
What are you even smoking?
Considering that my most played is an ADC, ain't exactly a circle jerk is it?
[zombie-brand-facepalm]
My Waifu Vanilla2 votesNot going Tabis on a tank nowadays is incredibly lackluster since in 90% of games there are more AD threats than AP (unless they have support brand but even then it is still a coin flip). Also, as above, most tanks are either top laners which are either in the mirror match where the resist isn't ENTIRELY relevant or in an AD match up which they want armor. Outside of Swain there are next to no AP top laners in the current meta so the top lane tank usually don't have to get it first or second item. Meanwhile the jungle tanks NEED to get cinderhulk first and then transition into Warmogs in almost ALL games according to na.op.gg (Sejuani goes Warmogs second in over 50% of her games played with Zac having the exact same trend). So my point still stands that a tank on 2 items is going to have next to no magic resist in almost all scenarios.
Also, even if Maokai/Ornn does opt for an MR item (which is almost ALWAYS second item) its going to be a 55 MR item that is not adaptive helm because they synergize way too much with Spirit Visage/Abyssal Mask respectively so they will still get shredded by Cass because the opportunity cost of going adaptive is too high.
woodvsmurph1 votesmf dodges sej's ult. She drops her make it rain, and she runs past sej. Sona flash crescendo's the other 4 enemies. Tf stuns sej while mf pops ult and deletes the other 4 enemies. You are now 5v1. You now deal with sej. Now, for a difficult problem?...
Thefrostyviking2 votes.....I know that you are Silver and all that, but even you must have the intellect and understanding to realize that a "guessed up" scenario such as the one you describe is extremely unlikely to ever actually happen in reality? In such a perfect manner?
First up, a good Seju would never ulti and completely miss MF, the slow would hit, forcing Sona to ulti Seju to prevent her from going ontop of MF, that or run up infront of Seju to keep her from Q'ing the MF and chainstunning her.
Secondly, what kinda boosted animals would stand clustered enough for a Sona ulti to hit all of them?
At this point MF´s own team will only have the option to try and disengage unless they are way ahead, MF has been caught too close to the front and Sona as well, half their backline is basically compromised.
Normally this ends with Seju soaking a ton of damage with her passive and then stoneplate before chainstunning enemy team to death.
That Scenario was already failed the moment Seju got the shot at ulting MF.
woodvsmurph1 votesSo... the over 50% miss rate by pro players means they just aren't good sej players? Add to that... sup or mid can block it for mf. Mf can flash it. I mean, these are GOOD players we're talking about right?... lol. It goes BOTH ways.
And the enemy team WILL be grouped up... because they're all mobbing your frontline who dove at them. So worst case scenario, you should be hitting adc (that your frontline mobbed), support (who's trying to peel like a good support), and probably either top or mid cuz... they're also peeling and trying to blow up your frontline. So that's a 3 man ult, that's saving your frontline and nabbing at least 2 kills. Which leaves you with 2 half hp frontline teammates, a damaged tf mid, a mostly full hp sona and mf (without ults) vs... a no ult no dash sej, and 2 enemies... one of whom has no flash and no cleanse or qss.
Last time I checked, the 5 will probably beat the 3 in that scenario. And if you're too low to wrap up the kills, you will... kite back, collapse on and kill sej, then base and... depending on death timers, use your newfound item advantage and full hp bars to 5v2 force an objective. Since everyone in the above scenario is a good player ya know.
And that is how we make swiss cheese of your scenario.
Thefrostyviking1 votesDidnt i specify that even if Seju misses the direct hit the aftereffect will still hit? The AOE is huge and is a disaster for MF who will lose her movespeed when the slow hits.
And what pro´s are we talking about? I´ve seen Korean seju mains land precision ults past 2 frontliners ontop of a squishy and lead their teams to collapse on that.
But i digress, the entire scenario you describe is pointless.......because guesswork when we dont even know the specific teamcomps is pointless.
Guesswork based on empty scenarios like these simply dont work, for all we know the Cassio could predict Sona´s flash and ulti perfectly and kill her instantly or just cause her to miss the opportunity.
That or Seju engages on Sona and lets her team get ontop of her first before moving towards MF, she barely takes any damage from MF with standard builds anyhow.
-..-.........Alright i am also guilty of enjoying empty guesswork but its pointless so dont mind it, im still only plati for a reason.
But in my original comment all i did was point out that there is a massive difference in DPS between team comps like MF+TF+Sona VS Cassio+varus+ardent lulu will shredd tanks in less than 5 seconds almost regardless of which tank.
And speaking from experience, MF+company will not even be able to do anything for the first 7 seconds between in this case Seju passive+stoneplate, the sheer maxhealth and resistance´s will just negate any flat damage thrown at her.
I´ve been on all ends of all sides here, playing seju, against Seju and as MF/Varus/Cassio.
I have a rather good understanding of the difference in specializations between all those.
Zardo4 votesThis is why as an assassin you need to play out fights patiently, waiting for enemies to separate or blow key cool downs.
Ralanr33 votesHonestly? Good. You shouldn’t just be able to ignore a tank.
C9 Squeeky 15 votesShouldn't a tank obtain aggro by threatening with CC rather than high base damage though?
Ralanr17 votesYes and no.
The damage for solo laners is so they can farm and trade in solo lanes. But if abilities don’t hurt, then you’re less likely to be worried about them unless you cannot account for the damage threat on the other team.
Honestly this is why I prefer tanks have more Telegraphed abilities rather than instant speed CC.
Devilreaper XIII4 votesYes and no.
The damage for solo laners is so they can farm and trade in solo lanes. But if abilities don’t hurt, then you’re less likely to be worried about them unless you cannot account for the damage threat on the other team.
Honestly this is why I prefer tanks have more Telegraphed abilities rather than instant speed CC.
and this is why league is dying....
its a 5vs5 game..... tanks should rely more on team mates instead of SOLO play..... [zombie-brand-facepalm]
Onerios5 votesOk, but recognise that by saying that you're also saying "all tanks should be played in a duo lane with the adc". Solo laners and the jungler need a certain quantity of damage in order to be able to clear camps, minions, and be sufficient a threat in lane that against bruisers every attempt to cs does not become an all in. There is an argument to be made that tank damage does not fall off hard enough past the laning phase, and that losing damage could be compensated for by more cc, but that's not the argument your making.
Daddy Tie Me Up1 votesAs if top lane wasnt duo lane anyway. Ever played againist premade top and jungle? Also nah, tanks dont need damage on spells to clear jungle, sunfire is clearing it good fucking enough.
Ralanr7 votesThat doesn’t make top lane a duo lane.
And tanks don’t automatically start out with sunfire.
Daddy Tie Me Up2 votesEvelynn doesnt start game with lich bane as well, dies to red buff if she does full clear, but she can still manage. And considering that bamis cinder is 1100 gold I certainly dont think tanks have it bad at all
Ralanr8 votesYou need a lichbane to do a full clear with Eve?
Can’t remember ever needing that.
Daddy Tie Me Up1 votesYeah but i havent seen tank die to red buff after trying to do full clear without backing
Ralanr6 votesDo you not head to the next buff after hitting level 3? Do you Ignore scuttle for healing?
Supreme Senpai692 votesYou're not wrong but they have to survive the laning phase. You shouldn't lose it just because you wanted to play a tank. Then nobody would play tanks ever
Devilreaper XIII1 votes[{quoted}](name=Supreme Senpai69,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KEYJRQvQ,comment-id=00010000000000010001,timestamp=2018-03-30T13:45:24.851+0000)
You're not wrong but they have to survive the laning phase. You shouldn't lose it just because you wanted to play a tank. Then nobody would play tanks ever
this game is too much damage oriented, why wouldn't they survive on defence and sustain only?
Supreme Senpai691 votesThey do. But they also need damage to defeat the enemy. It isn't ARAM; for the first 10-15 minutes of the game, you are 1v1'ing
Devilreaper XIII1 votes[{quoted}](name=Supreme Senpai69,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KEYJRQvQ,comment-id=0001000000000001000100000000,timestamp=2018-04-01T06:28:24.074+0000)
They do. But they also need damage to defeat the enemy. It isn't ARAM; for the first 10-15 minutes of the game, you are 1v1'ing
its not about kdr/killing, its about lane sustain, and there's alwasy the jungler than can help.
Supreme Senpai691 votesThey shouldn't be able to burst down people but they should be able to 1v1 and win without jungler help. Everyone should have that right. Even Soraka top can do that. It's very difficult, but she can
PokladnicaZla1 votesSo,you give them good bases so they trade in lane,but fall off during mid-late game.
Ralanr5 votesBasically yes, though those good bases don’t really “fall off” against anyone that is squishy.
LordGeovanni5 votesAs they shouldnt because then you wouldnt be squishy.
Ralanr4 votesEyup. Something a lot of people don’t understand.
NineTailedMystic1 votesBecause it makes no sense, but ya know ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Ralanr2 votesThat being squishy means that anything hurts?
How does that not make sense?
NineTailedMystic1 votesBecause it's a little silly for a class of champions to have bases so high they can threaten squishies yet building no damage items outside of minor ambient damage like Sunnfire. It should not be expected of Tanks to 70-0 a squishy with a non- rotation. Sure build a couple of damage items and it's fine to be a rightful threat to a squishy.
Ralanr2 votes...
Do you not understand what being squishy means? It means anyone can hurt you. That’s the downside of being a glass Cannon; you’re made a glass!
Devilreaper XIII2 votes...
Do you not understand what being squishy means? It means anyone can hurt you. That’s the downside of being a glass Cannon; you’re made a glass!
if only the glass cannon actually did damage againts tanks [zombie-brand-facepalm] whats the purpose of high damage champions that are glass canon (fodder) when you have ''made of steel'' practically unkillable champions that cause the same damage in the same time span?
Ralanr2 votesBecause they don’t actually do the same damage. A tank vs tank fight is a slow slog of a fight. A damage champion isn’t going to kill a tank fast but faster than everyone else.
Ralanr1 votesTank damage only reaches so high in the charts because AoE damage stacks, especially when it doesn’t kill people.
Hügö3 votesSure that's the original idea of a tank. But to achieve this in league you need to lower the cd's to urf level to be threatening.
My Waifu Vanilla4 votesNot really. Despite the fact that champions like Amumu or Naut do "decent" damage, they are unable to be ignored because they offer tons of CC (Naut) or CC and tons of utility (Amumu adding 10% true damage to all magic damage dealers). Tanks are only balance nightmares when they have both tons of CC and tons of base damage (Maokai still has a near undodgeable 225 base ability on a 5 second cooldown that happens to have hard cc attached) while having next to no mana costs since tanks (while further circumventing mana issues with items like Glacial Shroud or Catalyst).
DeusVult4 votesMao damage isnt all that much unless he can somehow consistently land multiple bush saplings, as his W damage is single target and Q aoe isnt "that" big.
Amumu and naut will outdamage a mao in nearly every game, Naut with his E spam and amumu because he can hit multiple people with his W and E several times during a teamfight. Only assassins and adcs complain about mao damage because once his W hits you he is guaranteed to land the rest of his kit on that target.
My Waifu Vanilla2 votesMaos damage is absurd in laning phase. He's a lane bully you can never shove out of lane since he WILL Q you every time you contest a creep and hardly run out of mana due to it costing a whopping 50 and even if you do try to fight back he has sustain while chances are you do not. Yes, his damage is lackluster at best, but during the laning phase he has waveclear and will outdamage most other non-lane bullies while building whatever resist compared to the damage you do. It's not NEARLY as bad now as before, but he is still obnoxious to play against and I would MUCH rather deal with pre-rework sapling max Mao because he actually ran out of mana despite doing a bit more damage.
DeusVult2 votesTanks would need to have near constant hard and soft CC if they didnt have enough damage to warrant them being a threat during a fight. THis just isnt feasible in a muliplayer PVP game unlike how it is in party based PvE games where "tanks" are damage soaks and have large access to damage mitigation and agro pulling mechanics.
Tanks need to deal damage in their kit so that they can lane/jungle and also not just become a giant meatshield during the mid-late game. The real balance hiccup is when a tank dives 1v3 and kills the ADC/other squishy in one or less rotation, but IMO there is nothing wrong when a tank solo kills the enemy ADC when their support abandons them and the ADC eats multiple rotations of the tanks skills.
Devilreaper XIII2 votesHonestly? Good. You shouldn’t just be able to ignore a tank.
you also shouldn't be completely destroyed by a tank 1vs5..... tanks need nerfing damage wise which is a fact.
oh look its shyvana! 1,5 seconds later..... PENTAKILL
hey its sejuani! 2,5 seconds later.... PENTAKILL
hey its leona! 3 seconds later.... TRIPLE KILL
just cc chain and destroy them while they are locked its disgusting....
DrTeath4 votesThis is a misconception that I feel I need to clear up . 
is not a tank, she is a bruiser. To be a tank you need 2 things.
If you dont have both of these , you are not a tank, for you cannot soak damage as well s a tank, regardless of what you build, and you cannot peel.
Salamencę3 votesThis is a misconception that I feel I need to clear up .
- Some form of damage mitigation built into your kit.
- Hard cc.
If you dont have both of these , you are not a tank, for you cannot soak damage as well s a tank, regardless of what you build, and you cannot peel.
She's a juggernaut, not a bruiser. People who don't understand the game use "bruiser" as a blanket term for fighters, skirmishers, and juggernauts. Shyvana is a prime example of a juggernaut. High damage and relatively high tankiness, no cc, mobility, or utility.
DragonShea2 votesShe's a juggernaut, not a bruiser. People who don't understand the game use "bruiser" as a blanket term for fighters, skirmishers, and juggernauts. Shyvana is a prime example of a juggernaut. High damage and relatively high tankiness, no cc, mobility, or utility.
Well said.
