Riot, Kha'Zix still doesn't have real evolution options.

Visigoth··117 votes·7,233 views

Let's be honest, his ultimate might as well just be "gain a point to evolve another ability," because his ultimate has been garbage since you gutted Kha in season 4, then rebuilt him from the ground up.

Slowly everything got compensated except 2 things. His isolation still has horrible range and makes him way too unreliable in damage. A fucking minion is the difference between one shotting an adc and dealing less damage than Vladimir's auto attacks. And that minion doesn't even have to be close.

And then his ultimate... When evolved... Why. You get an extra passive proc and unlock a Kha'Zix chroma for that game. I definitely don't think he should get the damage reduction back, but at least give him something for putting a point in it.

  • Firstly, let him use actives and his E without breaking stealth. Or at least actives. It's bullshit that Twitch, Rengar, Shaco, etc. can Youmuu's in invis but if Kha'Zix does it the invis drops off. And he has the shortest lasting invis of all of those champs.

  • Secondly, his evolved ultimate should bring something to the table. It needs to be on the level of his Q and E where you actually have to think if you need it now or later. Because right now Q or E at 6 is the only decision in the "evolving and adapting" champion. Last time I checked adapting is not cookie-cutter builds and evolutions.

  • Why not kill 2 birds with one stone and let his evolved ulti affect isolation? Maybe a passive range decrease, or making it so towers ("you are there to protect towers, not the other way around") and minions don't break isolation. Or how about coming out of his ultimate temporarily gives his Q guaranteed full damage.

  • So now W is lacking. So, thematically, Kha'Zix's W is supposed to be the projectile he sticks his target with to track them and kill them. Hence the vision he gets when evolved. So how about we capitalize the "tracking" theme and make his evolved W a single projectile, with a slightly higher slow than normal W (so how it is now), and a small damage multiplier on the marked champion, similar to Talon E, but a ranged skill shot.

  • Alternatively, his evolved W could just apply a debuff that makes anyone hit take full Q damage, or, to not clash with ultimate having a similar mechanic, make his passive do bonus damage to them.

  • Regardless of how it's done, I want to see some Kha'Zix changes. His is based around evolving and adapting to the situation, which he only does for level 6 deciding whether he was Q damage or E mobility. He should also want that extra W debuff or R isolation buff.

  • Old, OLD Kha'Zix had to make choices. Evolving Q, W, E, or R first was a choice. And in times, depending how you'd be playing him, you had to make difficult choices on evolving that effect the game. Currently this is not there. There is no major drawback for evolving Q and E. Infact, their is no drawback for never evolving W or R the entire game. Because Kha'Zix is supposed to a single target assassin, hence the isolation, so he doesn't need the cone of slow, and his R is laughable.

TL;DR: Kha'Zix was formerly a dominant assassin who could adapt to the situation, and had to make choices and rush his level 6, 11, and 16 for the crucial evolutions. Now he has his Q and E, then either useless AoE or a chroma skin. Small buffs can go a long way, and I would love you Riot, if you could just give my little bug a nice little buff, and once again allow him to "Evolve and Adapt," as he says.

EDIT: As a last note, I want to point out that Kha'Zix's winrate goes up from 45% to about 55% based on games played. That's more than Orianna's change. Kha'Zix is supposed to be a champion who is stronger based on how well you know the evolutions. But right now evolutions are a little brain dead for anyone who's played him. A champion who says "Change is Good," "Evolve and Adapt," and "They will not expect this" should be one that can actually adapt and have choices.

I also want to point out that his winrate is significantly lower in the mid game. His early and late game have fine winrates, but in the midgame, generally around the time just before 11, his winrate is lower. Previously K6 had power spikes at 6, 11, and 16, and now it's pretty much only 6 and 11.

100 Comments

Player of Games27 votes

Agreed, some small buffs would go a long way especially considering how much more effective Rengar is.

A Miss Fortune13 votes

Rengar is just a better Kha'zix, there's really not a reason to choose him over Rengar at least? Rengar has more damage, CC, mobility, tankiness, and I think sustain too. The only thing Kha'zix has is that he is really good at cleaning up low health enemies. Would love to see Kha'zix with more defined strengths especially over Rengar.

PiVoRx2 votes

Then nerf rengar, problem solved. And more junglers along with khazix becomes better.

YumaS2Astral15 votes

{quoted}

Then nerf rengar, problem solved. And more junglers along with khazix becomes better.

I would rather have two viable assassins than two shitty assassins

Also I want lane Kha'Zix back

PiVoRx3 votes

Yea lets make Kha op as Rengar, makes sense.

I would rather have many viable junglers than 2 op as fuck that dominates others.

YumaS2Astral5 votes

{quoted}

Yea lets make Kha op as Rengar, makes sense.

I would rather have many viable junglers than 2 op as fuck that dominates others.

Rengar isn't even that OP. At late game he can burst down someone easily? Yes. But that's all he can do, and a team can coordinate to prevent him from just killing someone. Pink wards/red trinkets and CC is all you need to prevent Rengar from reaching someone. And he can't escape because unlike Kha'Zix his ult is his only gap closer when he is not near the bushes.

PiVoRx2 votes

{quoted}

Rengar isn't even that OP. At late game he can burst down someone easily? Yes. But that's all he can do,

that's all he can do? turning a fight into 5v4 even before it begins isnt op? pls

YumaS2Astral8 votes

{quoted}

that's all he can do? turning a fight into 5v4 even before it begins isnt op? pls

That's usually what an assassin should be doing. Getting rid of an important target so that the team with the assassin can get a significant advantage.

Sinlaire1 votes

Zed Veigar Malzahar Katarina Warwick

hell. Blitzcrank counts with his ability to "hand pick" who's next to die and become a detriment to their team.

dont whine about champs doing their job when they're not even alone in the ability to do it.

PiVoRx1 votes

But only Rengar do it from invisibility and have no counterplay.

Sinlaire1 votes

Pink Ward, Purple upgraded yellow trinket, Sweeper lens, as well as blanket cc and damage still work. He's invis, not invulnerable to damage and all forms of CC.

watched a video where a Kennen had a passive mark on a rengar. so kennen popped his W and it made a lightining trail to the invisible rengar. he then threw his Q at it and popped his ult, killing the rengar right in the middle of his ult stealth.

the comments on the video then went on to show that many Kennen users often actually INTENTIONALLY pick him into stealth comps due to his ability to do this and that he's a great pick for shaco, eve, rengar, and kha'zix.

he turns invis. Evelynn says big freaking whoop. there is plenty of counterplay. the only lack of counter play there is is your own inability to drop a pink you can have for 90% of his ults for 250 and the team cohesion to put him down. I put a rengar down just like this tonight myself playing riven. popped pink, ulted, jumped him first.

i hate to be that guy, but if you REALLY think there's no counterplay, then get good. why the hell else do you think Riot made it so that anyone within his Ults jump range gets an exclamation mark over their heads. it's not to tell you to get your shop window ready. it's a neon sign saying "use counterplay or die. all on you bro."

PiVoRx1 votes

pink ward and sweeper has less range than his jump, and mark shows itself right before rengar jumps on you (if hes good and he does it right away) so yes theres no real counterplay to rengar unless you carry a perimeter of pink wards along with your team every few steps

YumaS2Astral1 votes

{quoted}

Pink Ward, Purple upgraded yellow trinket, Sweeper lens, as well as blanket cc and damage still work. He's invis, not invulnerable to damage and all forms of CC.

watched a video where a Kennen had a passive mark on a rengar. so kennen popped his W and it made a lightining trail to the invisible rengar. he then threw his Q at it and popped his ult, killing the rengar right in the middle of his ult stealth.

the comments on the video then went on to show that many Kennen users often actually INTENTIONALLY pick him into stealth comps due to his ability to do this and that he's a great pick for shaco, eve, rengar, and kha'zix.

he turns invis. Evelynn says big freaking whoop. there is plenty of counterplay. the only lack of counter play there is is your own inability to drop a pink you can have for 90% of his ults for 250 and the team cohesion to put him down. I put a rengar down just like this tonight myself playing riven. popped pink, ulted, jumped him first.

i hate to be that guy, but if you REALLY think there's no counterplay, then get good. why the hell else do you think Riot made it so that anyone within his Ults jump range gets an exclamation mark over their heads. it's not to tell you to get your shop window ready. it's a neon sign saying "use counterplay or die. all on you bro."

I like to pick Lulu into most stealth champions, including Kha'Zix and Rengar. This is because not only her E can reveal them while they are invisible, but she can prevent anyone from being killed by them due to her insane peeling and utility.

Hard Penetrator1 votes

Kha top is probably on Wukong lvl. Its almost impossible to buff lane kha and not put him into top tier jungle again.

Same thing with Jarvan.

If you think about mid kha not thank you, that was pure bullshit.

YumaS2Astral1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hard Penetrator,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KAXaGTFM,comment-id=00000000000000000001,timestamp=2015-10-09T14:30:20.423+0000)

Kha top is probably on Wukong lvl. Its almost impossible to buff lane kha and not put him into top tier jungle again.

Same thing with Jarvan.

If you think about mid kha not thank you, that was pure bullshit.

Then just make his abilities do reduced damage to monsters. This way he will have a worse jungle clear and can be buffed for the lanes.

They did it with Alistar.

Also, what is the problem with mid Kha? He is way easier to counter now and I doubt that when buffed this would change.

Hard Penetrator1 votes

Kha was played mid ONLY because he was insanely OP. What you are saying is basically "yo, make kha OP again so I can play him mid".

YumaS2Astral1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hard Penetrator,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KAXaGTFM,comment-id=0000000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2015-10-09T23:21:27.843+0000)

Kha was played mid ONLY because he was insanely OP. What you are saying is basically "yo, make kha OP again so I can play him mid".

No, he was played mid because he could counter many mages, just like Zed dows now.

Hard Penetrator1 votes

Fine, Kha mid was balanced. Just like Zed was balanced back then. That's why both of them got XXXX nerfs.

Shinjusuke1 votes

Kha'zix was in NO way, shape, or form designed in ANY aspect to be a lane champion. Any time Kha is viable in lane jungle Kha has to foot the "OP bill" and gets nerfed into oblivion WAYYYYY past what's necessary.

"Lane Kha" can fuckin' burn.

Juicyman17 votes

Q: It's fine W: Lowers the radius of Isolation or gain ms towards hit targets E: The reset is on the base ability, evolve it for the jump range. (As long as the reset is on the evolve then it's mandatory) R: Becomes an Ammo system.

ninjaIRL 1 votes

It would be a nice buff if you could double tap his ult to stack the durations, this makes his invisibility somewhat unpredictable to the enemy. Also, make his Q proc on-hit effects like Rengar's Q so he can lifesteal with its damage/spellblade etc.

FlashnFuse8 votes

I would love to see Kha'Zix's W give a Grave's smokescreen style "blind" to targets hit. When the enemies are "blinded" in the darkness, they become isolated since they can not see allies. Then give the evolution on W a longer "blind" duration. This would give Kha'Zix some self reliant assassin capabilities while also reestablishing him as the scary bug that you can't see coming.

Rebonack7 votes

Originally it worked as follows.

Need better damage against lone targets? Evolve Q.

Need stronger poke because it is too dangerous to dive? Evolve W.

Need more mobility to reach your targets? Evolve E.

Need more defense to survive team fights? Evolve R.

Problem is, W doesn't provide better poke anymore and R doesn't provide better defense anymore. Arguably, I think ALL of his evolution should be improving his damage to allow him to assassinate better, but they should be doing so in different ways because different approaches are more effective in different situations. Y'know, evolve and overcome and all that.

What I would suggest is giving him ONE evolution point and have his evolutions grow in strength at levels 11 and 16. Then give him the ability to swap his evolutions when he's out of combat. That would allow each evolution to be buffed a fair bit at the higher levels. It would also encourage each of them to provide strength in a different situation. Isolated targets, poke, mobility, and team fights.

Obviously Riot doesn't want Kha to get defense anymore (despite abominations like Ekko existing), so instead his Ult could focus on improving Kha's damage output in clustered team fights. That could probably be accomplished by making it upgrade his Innate, too.

KidKaiser5 votes

give Khazix the ability to fully evolve all spells. like Viktor for instance. it could just be a lvl18 spike in power. why can't we fully use a champions kit ? if we're going with the "he must evolve and adapt" theory, please allow Khazix to bring everything he can offer into the game, via 4th evolve point.

TL;DR give Khazix QoL via 4th evolve point.

stargazer332 votes

he can already. just kill rengar when you get the quest.

KidKaiser1 votes

gg. must rely on a niche 'quest' to achieve ultimate form.

meanwhile Rengar only really needs to get 6 kills/assist. and if he hits 20. then gl. and then we have Viktor . where he basically gets all augments once he's fully upgraded his core.

Ralanr4 votes

"Oh no, Pantheon can't 1v10 even though rakkor warriors are described as preferring this."

Boulderox3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Best Scyther KR,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KAXaGTFM,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-10-08T15:15:26.788+0000)

  • Firstly, let him use actives and his E without breaking stealth. Or at least actives. It's bullshit that Twitch, Rengar, Shaco, etc. can Youmuu's in invis but if Kha'Zix does it the invis drops off. And he has the shortest lasting invis of all of those champs.

His ult stealth is very brief, but the fact that it gives a 40% movespeed boost, which with item 3142, which is just a trivial thing in build pattern and how he plays.

  • Secondly, his evolved ultimate should bring something to the table. It needs to be on the level of his Q and E where you actually have to think if you need it now or later. Because right now Q or E at 6 is the only decision in the "evolving and adapting" champion. Last time I checked adapting is not cookie-cutter builds and evolutions.

It used to have 50% damage reduction didn't it? but that is a tad much for an assassin, that was why his r was an option back then, tank/stealth/ and passive from one ability. His ult is a way to get out or kite, that is how i see it.

  • Why not kill 2 birds with one stone and let his evolved ulti affect isolation? Maybe a passive range decrease, or making it so towers ("you are there to protect towers, not the other way around") and minions don't break isolation. Or how about coming out of his ultimate temporarily gives his Q guaranteed full damage.

It just had a buff.... 5.11 had the isolation range changed to 425 from 500, a significant buff if you ask me. Also his ult procs his passive, up to twice, even though it has an ap scaling does a decent chunk of additional damage you normally wouldn't

  • So now W is lacking. So, thematically, Kha'Zix's W is supposed to be the projectile he sticks his target with to track them and kill them. Hence the vision he gets when evolved. So how about we capitalize the "tracking" theme and make his evolved W a single projectile, with a slightly higher slow than normal W (so how it is now), and a small damage multiplier on the marked champion, similar to Talon E, but a ranged skill shot.

I really like the idea, but i would say remove the armor shred then.... having that on top of damage multiplier is too much on one button. And his sustain would have to be tweaked, as his w is the way he sustains in jungle early. Also it currently has a 20% slow pre-evolved and 50% on evolved, which idk how much more you can ask for a slow without it being too much, eventually making it a Talon e with a high slow but for fractions of a second.

  • Alternatively, his evolved W could just apply a debuff that makes anyone hit take full Q damage, or, to not clash with ultimate having a similar mechanic, make his passive do bonus damage to them.

His q is meant to be a risk reward system, having kha'zix roam the fields until the right moment to unload all the damage. giving assured damage on another ability as a passive is nice in theory , but i feel with the multiplier proposed would be stupid damage wise.

  • Regardless of how it's done, I want to see some Kha'Zix changes. His is based around evolving and adapting to the situation, which he only does for level 6 deciding whether he was Q damage or E mobility. He should also want that extra W debuff or R isolation buff.

But that is on par with every champ, but has the choice to be more damage, or ability to jump in and out, shred, or kite. It is no different than Bard, why max e before anything else.... the other abilities have more utility to make a larger impact, same with kha'zix. He can't adapt very well because he is an assassin, he can't adapt to be a bruiser, he has to have abilties to assist an assasin, being raw damage, shred and sustain, mobility, or kiting with stealth.

  • Old, OLD Kha'Zix had to make choices. Evolving Q, W, E, or R first was a choice. And in times, depending how you'd be playing him, you had to make difficult choices on evolving that effect the game. Currently this is not there. There is no major drawback for evolving Q and E. Infact, their is no drawback for never evolving W or R the entire game. Because Kha'Zix is supposed to a single target assassin, hence the isolation, so he doesn't need the cone of slow, and his R is laughable.

It is just the way the game goes, you prioritize skills and abilities that will have the greatest impact on fights, and 9 times out of 10 q and e are first, and ult is very rarely ever done as the impact does not help as much as the others. but W is a must for more sustain and weakening targets later on.

And the RARE Rengar quest.

WarlockLaw1 votes

I thought Kha'Zix evolved his ult last because he can't multi-proc the heal or the damage

Boulderox1 votes

The w heals him for every target hit, and as long as the passive procs once, he can use ilt ro proc again.

WarlockLaw1 votes

The heal isn't based on targets hit, but whether or not you are in the explosion. It does not proc damage multiple times per dingle target nor does it multi proc the heal

TacoTheKitten3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Best Scyther KR,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KAXaGTFM,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-10-08T15:15:26.788+0000) You get an extra passive proc and unlock a Kha'Zix chroma for that game.

XD So true tho ;-;

PeponiPoro3 votes

You don't understand how to play him. His ult is to charge his passive. That's all rito meant it to do. The evolution I think is pretty cool as well. It is unique to him. I don't own the guy, but that is just because I keep saving for the new champions. He and Rengar are my favorite to play when they are free. Although speaking of Rengar, Kha'Zix's rival and funnest to counterplay... his ult invis lasts longer... oh... OK... well that's not very fair at all... :(

I still enjoy him though :P He could be reworked or left the way he is and I'll still be playing him.

Nobody is gonna read this whole thing are they? Just going to downvote me probably...

FistOfSharkiesha2 votes

I don't see why Kha'zix even exists when Rengar is in the same game. Resourceless, stronger, better CC, higher burst. The only thing Rengar lacks is Kha'zix's jump which can be used anywhere while Rengar has to use a bush.

A Superb Villain3 votes

Rengar excels at bursting a target, while I feel Kha'Zix is better at dueling; Q then R leaves little room for someone to fight back against Kha unless they upgraded their sweeper or bought a Vision ward, Kha's burst is staggered between Qs.

Also bug > cat.

FistOfSharkiesha6 votes

Rengar has universally higher base stats except 5 less movement speed, as well as an AS and AR/MR buff, so I think his burst is better and his sustained damage is also just as good as Kha'zix. The only thing Kha'zix is better at is his jump, which is weak on it's own but can be strong you get multiple kills because of the reset.

tl;dr Khaz trades basically everything for a strong gap closer/escape but sucks at everything else.

Demacry1 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Superb Villain,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KAXaGTFM,comment-id=000c0000,timestamp=2015-10-08T19:01:41.189+0000)

Rengar excels at bursting a target, while I feel Kha'Zix is better at dueling; Q then R leaves little room for someone to fight back against Kha unless they upgraded their sweeper or bought a Vision ward, Kha's burst is staggered between Qs.

Also bug > cat.

Ahh if only all champions could be countered by buying a single 100 gold item.

SpecterVonBaren2 votes

Make it so his evolved ult makes his next q be treated as an isolated q.

Baunjo2 votes

Having minions not block isolation would be a TERRIBLE idea. Unless I am mistaken, you can rank up R at 6 AND evolve it yes? So if that went down, there would be no more counter play to his Q. The first 20 minutes of the game ( give or take ) is opportune time for kha'zix to just roam around and destroy shit. Why make that easier?

Tik1151 votes

I'd just like him to use his W in mid jump again

Seriously guys a Rengar who can delete you in 0.01 seconds can throw his SNARE in midair but Kha-zix can't fire his SLOW in mid-air?

me thinks those limitations should be switched

ElendilofNumenor1 votes

The thing with Rengar is that if you're using the ferocity on the E's snare, you're sacrificing a lot of damage, and can't instagib someone. I think Kha-Zix should be able to use w mid-jump, but Rengar is fine the way he is.

howstheweather131 votes

{quoted}

I'd just like him to use his W in mid jump again

Seriously guys a Rengar who can delete you in 0.01 seconds can throw his SNARE in midair but Kha-zix can't fire his SLOW in mid-air?

All bs aside this needs attention level the playing field. As for his q I think removing isolation and giving him flat % or True damage based on the amount of enemy champions around might be a good idea.

Edit. Why not add some ad scaling to his ult seems simple enough. Fixed.

Phuc Dat Bich1 votes

Yeah lets buff kha to rengar lvl what could go wrong...oh i know 61% win ratio like the one kha was having before his nerfs...

Or "Small buffs wouldnt make him OP"

Lux say what? 2 small buffs 58% win ratio Elise 2 small buffs=pick ban 100%

So yeah KHA was nerfed for a reason saying that he need to be like he was is like saying we should bring back old Kassadin because the new one is not as strong as he used to be....

Do you see your logic?

And NO arguments like "But rengar can do that and this" is stupid because rengar is problematic and he is almost always banned in higher elos and lower elos

Carry3 votes

As someone who has tracked winrates very closely for almost 2 years. I have to point out that Kha never had anywhere near a 61% winrate and your post is complete bogus. Lux did not get 2 small buffs and end up at a 58% winrate either. She got a series of buffs (passive given AP ratio, AP ratio fixed to apply on ult passive trigger, E detonation cast during travel, E radius increase, W activation time buff, THEN FINALLY the Q buff that caused 100% effect to second target and reduced mana cost). And she now sits at about a 55% winrate.

And Kha's winrate is currently low and has been so for over a year. He does deserve buffs, as does Kassadin.

Your logic is basically, "welp, these champs were strong or frequently picked once, thus it's better to leave them at 45% winrates than attempt to get them to a balanced level, because haha they'll be op if u change em xDDDD." It's dumb and I wish people would stop accepting this horrible train of thought as legitimate.

Talith PA1 votes

On Dominion evolving his Void Assault is a very serious and important choice at higher play.

Llanite1 votes

He's a lane bully and you have to accept lane bully falls off in teamfight. There will be no buff, as he's already too strong in lane.

The only possible 'buffs' is to remove isolation and give him flat dmg, so he doesn't rely on a niche anymore.

Gunpoint1 votes

Simple change, minions do not effect isolation when ultimate is evolved.

FocusM31 votes

How about Kha'zix gets a buff to his w making his evolved w stun champs for 1/1.1/1.3/1.5/2 seconds and make his q not be affected by minions and turrets when it gets evolved?

howstheweather131 votes

{quoted}

How about Kha'zix gets a buff to his w making his evolved w stun champs for 1/1.1/1.3/1.5/2 seconds and make his q not be affected by minions and turrets when it gets evolved?

Because that would make solo lane Kha OP.

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