Is there a reason Ahri gets a free Ghost every time she presses Q

FalconPawwwwnch·Jul 29, 2015·36 votes·2,891 views

What was the point of adding that mechanic other than intentionally inflating her win rate to 55%?

50 Comments

SwapShadowsJul 29, 201523 votes

because she got compensated for removal of DFG just like veigar and morde got "compensated"

magic poleJul 29, 201511 votes

lol

RaxistaichoJul 29, 20153 votes

{quoted}

because she got compensated for removal of DFG just like veigar and morde got "compensated"

They're trying to do something about Mordekaiser and Veigar fucking deserved what he got.

MAN OF INTELLECTJul 29, 20155 votes

Sir, when's the last time that you have seen Veigar in ranked?

I haven't seen him... at all...

granted, the E needed a rework, but still, he needs proper buffs for that nerf. Or a rework.

and meanwhile Ahri's winrate is a little unbelievable, right there with Heimer.

Ahri All aboard the freelo train!

A Superb VillainJul 30, 20158 votes

{quoted}

Veigar fucking deserved what he got.

http://media.giphy.com/media/1fNVQW8lCqp2M/giphy.gif

Krieg the PsychoJul 30, 20154 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Superb Villain,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KA2XTsg1,comment-id=000000010001,timestamp=2015-07-30T01:20:08.018+0000)

http://media.giphy.com/media/1fNVQW8lCqp2M/giphy.gif

David Tenant! Wait....How does he have time to play league? Shouldn't he be doing stuff in the TARDIS?

Chaotic ReksJul 30, 20153 votes

well who the hell do you think Zilean is?

ElJanitorFrankJul 30, 20157 votes

Compensation?

Are you saying Veigar is compensating for something?

Is that a short joke?! Veigar

Ariel the CruelJul 30, 20153 votes

The irony is that she got nerfed because of DFG and forced into an assassination play style. After DFG they reverted the nerfs, then added the speed buff to Q. . . . Because. . . Reasons.

NineTailedMysticJul 30, 20152 votes

If I remember right, after the DFG removal, they had given her the speed boost on Q, slightly more damage base damage on W, increased Charm's base AND scaling damage. Immediately after (5.2 -> 5.3), seeing as how she was pick/ban during 5.2 since she was too safe, received some damaging nerfs like such as Q costing more mana (55 to 65 at rank one), reverting the W buff completely as well as nerfing its range (650 to 550), on top of hitting her ults target acquisition range (700 to 600). Ahri has essentially been untouched outside of two bug fixes revolving around Charm (No longer stopping "unstoppable" forces and jungle monster interaction).

After the Q MS boost, she was TOO safe, after 5.3 she had taken some of that safety away. If you ask my (completely and totally unbiased opinion /s) Ahri is completely fine. She rewards good plays and is punished harshly for poor ones. Maybe if she really needs a nerf I'd touch her damage ever so slightly.

Raid Boss MordeJul 30, 20153 votes

Too bad Ahri didn't get a real "compensation". Mordekaiser and Veigar some great "compensation" though.

Stun harder to hit for Veigar + skillshots, 70% of Mordekaiser's health regen cut. Ahri got a movement speed boost to her Q...

Ser GarlandJul 30, 20152 votes

{quoted}

because she got compensated for removal of DFG just like veigar and morde got "compensated"

Yeah no, Ludens came out, she should have that "compensation" removed.

FadedpfJul 29, 201510 votes

Because.... Shes a "Kiting mage" now. Even though she has insanely good wave clear, low mana costs, non existent ult cooldown when you have a item 3165 , one of the best CC's in the game, good damage to tanks and assassination ability that is very safe. Don't ask me about Ahri and how her Kit is just dumb, ask Riot.

RaxistaichoJul 29, 201516 votes

{quoted}

Because.... Shes a "Kiting mage" now. Even though she has insanely good wave clear,

Compared to most primary mages (champs with mage as their primary class, not X/Mages like Leblanc) her wave clear is pretty trash.

low mana costs,

Her mana costs are actually nothing to sneeze at. If you're not good at last hitting to fuel your doran's ring you'll go oom as her.

non existent ult cooldown when you have a ,

Lux Anivia Swain Diana Chogath Ezreal Annie Malzahar

Those are just a few mages I was able to find with ult cd's that are comparably short as Ahri's.

And the reason Ahri's ult has such a short cooldown is because it's just 3 dashes with some damage attached, and the damage is pretty terrible as far as ults go.

one of the best CC's in the game,

A relatively slow minion-blocked skillshot that lasts 1 second until she starts ranking it (and she always maxes E last) is "one of the best CC's in the game"?

good damage to tanks

No. Ahri's damage is lower than other burst mages. Yes, she's got true damage, but only on one skill, and that's only going to matter if the enemy tanks are somehow not building health. Mages in general aren't really good at fighting tanks since they tend to rely on burst, and Ahri's not a sustained dps mage like Swain, Cassiopeia, Vladimir, or Anivia.

If you were to say she's good at fighting tanks because she can kite them around where other mages cannot then I'd give you a pass on that, that's part of her design. She's a kite mage.

and assassination ability that is very safe.

She pays for her safety with low burst and that fact that she's skillshot reliant.

And don't give me that garbage people always bring up about "Oh well she can kill you with just her W and R!" because I've actually crunched the numbers on that, and unless you're both incredibly squishy and somehow unable to kill her in the 3 to 4 seconds it'll take to get all of that off, she won't be killing you with just those.

Don't ask me about Ahri and how her Kit is just dumb

Yes, please don't ask this guy, for he'll give you false information.

FadedpfJul 29, 20153 votes

Kiting mage is what Riot told us after the DFG removal and "compensation". Though almost nothing changed Ahri is still an assassin. Sure she might not have a lot of front loaded burst like Zed, LB, or any other typical assassin, she is very good at exploding squishies. There isn't much you can do if she dashes at you and straight up kills you. Late game all of her abilities nuke. And her wave clear is not trash I don't know what you're smoking.
Her mana costs are low considering she wont spam her W or E unless a fight happens ( for good Ahris at least). Just keep Q ing and last hitting minions 1 Q will make a wave of 3 melees and casters very weak with a few more minion autos just last him them all and get mana back with .
Her ult doesn't have a meaningful cooldown with CDR. It will almost always be up for the next fight. Also according to you her ult is 3 weak dashes with trash damage. Yes the damage is not the best early but later on it will be a nuke, the massive movement tied with her Q and 3 DASHES means Ahri is almost uncatchable, even if you do try to get a good CC she will probably have Flash and . Her ult makes her stupidly hard to catch and kill. But nope her ult is pretty terrible as far as ults go.
Her charm isn't slow, and just because an ability can be blocked by minions doesn't mean it can be 100% be determined a healthy skill with weak strength. I.E. - Blitzcrank Q. Her charm is a pollymorph that makes you walk towards her team. But nope that's not strong at all.
There is only 1 counter to true damage, and that is shields. Not all tanks have shields. Ahri will probably be landing most of her Charms on the tank if anything, that will guarantee her combo which will hurt a tank massively. So you have to deal with a mid laner that does a lot of magic and true damage and will basically kite you forever, and if you ever get close she can ult and flash away then turn it all around on you. Tanks must itemize against everything. True damage is the best against them because only shields can stop it, you have to deal with a lot of magic damage and ADC sustained damage. As a person that plays tanks or Bruisers, Ahri is HELL to play against.
Ahri is an Assassin, even if she messes up with not landing something or not enough damage for what ever reason, she can save an ult charge or two to get out. You don't see people calling Azir or Zerath trash champions because of muh skill level. Everyone misses skillshots but just because something is a skill shot doesn't mean the champion is immune to being called strong or in need or nerfs.

You basically said Ahri is a trash champion with low damage output, no wave clear, mediocre ult, garbage cc and is automatically trash because of muh skill shots. Good to know man.

RaxistaichoJul 29, 20154 votes

{quoted}

Kiting mage is what Riot told us after the DFG removal and "compensation". Though almost nothing changed Ahri is still an assassin. Sure she might not have a lot of front loaded burst like Zed, LB, or any other typical assassin, she is very good at exploding squishies. There isn't much you can do if she dashes at you and straight up kills you. Late game all of her abilities nuke. And her wave clear is not trash I don't know what you're smoking.

I exaggerated but her waveclear is still a bit meh, especially considering she's a mage.

Her mana costs are low considering she wont spam her W or E unless a fight happens ( for good Ahris at least). Just keep Q ing and last hitting minions 1 Q will make a wave of 3 melees and casters very weak with a few more minion autos just last him them all and get mana back with .

Put that way, sure her mana costs are manageable, but if she's only Q poking them her opponent is much saffer against her.

Her ult doesn't have a meaningful cooldown with CDR. It will almost always be up for the next fight. Also according to you her ult is 3 weak dashes with trash damage. Yes the damage is not the best early but later on it will be a nuke, the massive movement tied with her Q and 3 DASHES means Ahri is almost uncatchable, even if you do try to get a good CC she will probably have Flash and . Her ult makes her stupidly hard to catch and kill. But nope her ult is pretty terrible as far as ults go.

Late game most champs' ults will be up between team fights, that's not something special for Ahri in particular. I said her ult was 3 dashes and damage, and that by the standards of an ultimate the damage is bad. Yes her ultimate makes her hard to gank and is an excellent skill in general, but most of her all-in potential is tied into it. If she uses up her ult in the laning phase just to escape a gank then her laning opponent doesn't need to worry about her going in on them for about 80 seconds or so.

And you also have to keep in mind that her mobility is almost entirely tied into her ultimate. Before the Q change to give her a movespeed buff she's as immobile as Xerath or Lux when her ult is down. A far cry from champs like Ezreal or Leblanc who have mobility on a basic skill.

Her charm isn't slow, and just because an ability can be blocked by minions doesn't mean it can be 100% be determined a healthy skill with weak strength. I.E. - Blitzcrank Q. Her charm is a pollymorph that makes you walk towards her team. But nope that's not strong at all.

Unfortunately there's few sources where you can actually look up missile speeds, but both Ahri's Q and E are considered "slow" by players. Still, I'd really like to look up the numbers on it ):

Ahri's charm is only slightly different from a stun in that it makes you walk toward her. Slowly and for 1 second. Don't act as if she pulls you right into her team like Blitz does.

There is only 1 counter to true damage, and that is shields.

Or you can build health.

Not all tanks have shields. Ahri will probably be landing most of her Charms on the tank if anything, that will guarantee her combo which will hurt a tank massively.

And then she's just used her full combo on a tank, bringing them to half health at best assuming equal levels of gold. Meanwhile her most crucial skill (charm) is on cooldown for at least 7.2 seconds, and that's actually a good chunk of time in a team fight. That's time that a carry doesn't have to worry about getting charmed.

So you have to deal with a mid laner that does a lot of magic and true damage

Please stop exaggerating, assuming a late-game build of about 675 (that's Morello, boots, 3 100-AP items and Deathcap) the True damage from her Q is only about 376 damage. And that's top of the barrel.

and will basically kite you forever, and if you ever get close she can ult and flash away then turn it all around on you. Tanks must itemize against everything. True damage is the best against them because only shields can stop it, you have to deal with a lot of magic damage and ADC sustained damage. As a person that plays tanks or Bruisers, Ahri is HELL to play against.

Not really, magic damage is easier to itemize against than physical because most sources of magic damage come from burst and are restrained by cooldowns, while physical fighters can just fall back on auto attacks. Surviving a physical champion's load with a bit of health means you're a few auto-attacks away from death, surviving a mage's load with a bit of health means they're stuck waiting for their cooldowns to come back up before they can finish you, which is time for you to kill them first. What this means is a mixture of health and magic resist go much longer to blocking out magic damage than a mixture of health and armor goes to stopping physical damage.

And shields are NOT the only way to stop true damage. Health trumps true damage. A true damage skill will do the same damage against a target with 400 health as it will against a target with 1000.

And if you want to talk "difficult to itemize against" then there's better champions to talk about than Ahri.

Ahri is an Assassin, even if she messes up with not landing something or not enough damage for what ever reason, she can save an ult charge or two to get out. You don't see people calling Azir or Zerath trash champions because of muh skill level. Everyone misses skillshots but just because something is a skill shot doesn't mean the champion is immune to being called strong or in need or nerfs.

She hasn't got the burst to be a real assassin unless fed. The reason she ganks so well is her crazy mobility, not her damage.

You basically said Ahri is a trash champion with low damage output, no wave clear, mediocre ult, garbage cc and is automatically trash because of muh skill shots. Good to know man.

No, of course not, I happen to think Ahri's a pretty well balanced champion. She just pays for her mobility with her burst.

Solidair3Jul 29, 20154 votes

I'm not going to comment on everything else, but her waveclear is pretty good. Her Q is especially mana efficient (an effect that riot put into her kit intentionally with the recentish decrease to her Q's mana cost to put emphasis on her ability to roam and get kills)

DarkwindJul 30, 20151 votes

(you actualy can kill them with just W+R- just requires a highly unconventional build that is not particularly viable.) item 3042 item 3089 item 3157 item 3135 item 3285

Ariel the CruelJul 30, 20151 votes

item 3042 ? Wouldn't you be better off with a Lich Bane if you're going to use AA's?

DarkwindJul 30, 20151 votes

It's not the autos- Muramana applies on single target spells, too. And guess what? Each of your 3 foxfires counts as single target. Charm also works, although that's not really the point. The idea with the build is to get as much unavoidable, low- animation damage as possible. You can W-R-R-Zhonya-R-W a carry to death quite easily with this build... if you can somehow magically get it.

As I said, it's not particularly viable due to the difficulty in getting tear stacked, the delay in your power, and the hybrid damage it causes- but it IS the build that gives the most damage from ONLY Ws and Rs.

Ariel the CruelJul 31, 20151 votes

While true... Because her ult is considered an AoE, she would only get the 3 fox fire procs which would come out to 361.53028692 damage.

Replace it with Lich Bane and you'll get a proc worth 402 damage.

Math

consume 3% DEAL 6% 1000 mana 1184 base

2134 -64.02

2069.98 = 124.1988 -62.0994

2007.8806 = 120.472836 -60.236418

1947.644182 = 116.85865092

Total: 361.53028692

================================== ==================================

DC: [120+(480*35%=168)] 288 Zonya's: 100 Void: 80 Luden's: 100 Lich: 80 Total: 648

Lich Proc: (75%AD= 78)+(50%AP= 324) = 402

Note that this calculation is in a void. If we interweve AA's, Muramana will come out ahead in the short term; but falls off very quickly.

DarkwindJul 31, 20151 votes

All perfectly accurate. I've actually done the math myself before, but it's cool that you're into that type of stuff too xD

If you do the full W and R- only combo, it includes 2 Ws, which increases the damage significantly, but the point is really pretty moot.... it's not practical in game either way.

Course if you're REALLY out of your mind you could just replace zhonya with lich bane.... .... .... don't do that in ranked pls

Ariel the CruelJul 31, 20151 votes

I'd rather replace boots. ;p

Also worth mentioning, with full CDR, FF has ~3 second CD. Her ult has 1 a second CD between casts. Lich bane has a 1.5 second CD. Assuming AA weaving, they'll break even at an estimated 2 Lich procs. Assuming Ahri started with full mana. Anything Less, and I'm all but certain Lich Bane still wins out. (And yes, I'm arguing the moot point. Just because ai can. XD )

Next time I go into ranked though, I'll build all Lich Banes, just for you! (^_^) (I actually like Lich bane on her. Synergies well with her ult. Though Gauntlet is sometimes nice too.)

(PS: I don't play ranked.)

Sir YamazukiJul 29, 20159 votes

Because she's a waifu champion, waifus aren't allowed to ever be weak.

DJ Di0Jul 29, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord Yamazuki,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KA2XTsg1,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-07-29T20:07:47.455+0000)

Because she's a waifu champion, waifus aren't allowed to ever be weak.

But Sona and Zyra aren't strong atm; and Zilean.

ModAcademy KaynJul 30, 20151 votes

Zilean is true waifu

LadyRenlyJul 30, 20151 votes

So this is the reason Annie will always be the bot lane terror

Count ZubatJul 29, 20158 votes

Because Riot removed DFG and thought our beloved Nine-Tailed Fox is UP after that, so she got compensated. Meanwhile, Veigar and Mordekaiser ...

NarasimhaJul 30, 20158 votes

Because they not only took away DFG, but as people seem to be forgetting, the bonus damage on her Charm as well. That was huge. That was what made people play like an assassin. Without that, they chose to return her to her roots of mobile mage. More mobility, but overall less damage.

1000angrybeesJul 29, 20157 votes

Do people really have a hard time against her? She's good, but she's really not oppressive or anything.

prologuęJul 31, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Do people really have a hard time against her? She's good, but she's really not oppressive or anything.

she's actually not that hard to lane against lol her orb is kind of easy to dodge and her charm can be blocked by minions

1000angrybeesJul 31, 20151 votes

I know. I swear, if you've played her, you know how to play against her.

Solidair3Jul 29, 20154 votes

It was to amplify her identity as a poke/kite mage.

Unfortunately, I think it did have a side effect of making her too powerful (especially combined with the recent movespeed increase on Luden's Echo).

Playing against Ahri feels pretty awful right now. Perhaps a decrease to her base movespeed would be the best way t go about it? If they wanted to keep the increased movespeed on Q.

HangsterrJul 29, 20153 votes

Ahri isn't consider an Assassin Champ, but she can gank just as good or better than one

Hasztalan2Jul 29, 20153 votes

Well what's the point of a tripple dash on any champion to begin with.

ChoGathsSonJul 30, 20153 votes

She was literally fine before they made those changes

It's honestly the most balanced Ahri had ever been

manbearswineJul 30, 20153 votes

Well you see,issue was after ahri ulted there was a very small period of time where she was slightly vunerable(her charm still breaks dashes for no apparent reason,taunts do not,but charm does),this change was aimed to fix that,and it did.

Thanks riot.

LVL 5 POROJul 30, 20153 votes

As an Ahri main I find all the salt in this thread delicious.

zFlash96Jul 29, 20152 votes

Come on dude!! Do you really want Ahri to be an immobile mage again?? She only had like... three dashes!! ONLY THREE!! That's even less than Riven, who already suffers a lot from the mobility creep!! She is not even untargetable while dashing around, what a joke!! Also her ultimate has one of the longest cooldowns and highest mana costs in the game!! And she doesn't even have a built-in slow, only an useless polymorph smh... How is she even supposed to chase or escape without that movement speed?? I can't imagine how Ahri would be viable without it, she would be kited way too hard by champions like Miss Fortune!! Believe me, she desperately needed that buff!!

Silents429Jul 30, 20152 votes

Oh my god now this is getting complained about, people were bitching at the time how useless this was on her.

Charmed by AhriJul 30, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Oh my god now this is getting complained about, people were bitching at the time how useless this was on her.

Ya but then down the line people realized how useful it actually is. I still prefer charm dmg amp opposed to a short deflating ms boost.

The Bíg TicketJul 30, 20152 votes

Don't worry Ahri is balanced, let the Bronze people school you on this one.

Linna ExcelJul 30, 20152 votes

Riot was tired of her being a full assassin and it was compensation for DFG getting gutted and her losing the damage boost on her E. If you want to go back to the days where she could build tanky and 100-0 you with a single combo, I dare you to honestly make that thread.

Hèntaî Jul 30, 20151 votes

I miss the Ahri before this rework, she was so fun. Not saying she isnt fun now but I loved punishing people who ran in a straight line with the charm and bonus damage. </3

Blkninjar87Jul 30, 20151 votes

Yeah cause she's one of three mages with only one form of cc, that they MUST hit to do any type of damage. The others being twisted fate and Morgana...to a lesser extent veigar as well...didn't count him cause he can two shot with ult on ap champs.

LuggJul 30, 20151 votes

Her ult didn't make her mobile enough. <Sarcasm>

BlkGolemJul 30, 20151 votes

I always did wonder why she just got ms for free, It would make sense for her to get it after hitting q maybe, but not just instantly.

CarryJul 30, 20151 votes

Because you retards won't acknowledge that win rates (with only slight nuances) are actually a pretty clear indicator of a champion's strength.

Once you guys start recognizing that champions like Leblanc, Kassadin and Ryze are dramatically weaker than things like Annie, Ahri and Talon, then maybe we can avoid having so many 55% winrate and <45% winrate champs.

AMYS GRAVEJul 31, 20151 votes

they turned her from a burst assassin to a kite mage, so the mobility came from her burst. her base damage was decreased while her scalings were increased to ensure that if she got ahead, she would still feel rewarding to play.