Stop ignoring trundle

Moody P·Feb 7, 2019·19 votes·10,907 views

Trundle is just as bad as post nerf Akali and Irelia and Aatrox for the same reason (pro play)

But he's been dog shit for a lot longer and yet Riot will be changing and tweaking the other 3 first. Also unlike them their mains still do very well; Trundle mains can barely break above 50% which is pathetic numbers for one tricks, especially on someone as simple-but-versatile as Trundle.

Trundle needs to be discussed more. I'm not Volibear guy anymore I'm trundle guy until justice is dispensed.

52 Comments

Akali is SO HOTFeb 7, 201911 votes

Q should do true damage and one shot turrets

Z3SleeperFeb 8, 20191 votes

His E is too short ranged imo. It should be a global cast.

Actually his W zone is pretty small as well. Make that global too.

Iota ThetaFeb 8, 20192 votes

Make it so as long as Trundle is in the match, the entire map is covered in his W, then make his W an auto buff that deals True Damage and heals him at the same time.

GaliöFeb 7, 20194 votes

My man is back with the good complaints.

I wonder where D3stroy3r, or w.e his name was, went with the extreme angry rants though?

Anyways, after this sej changes I would have expected trundle changes since they were the yin/yang of competative.

But he was kind of forgotten which is strange. I do like me some good ol troll.

Moody PFeb 7, 20194 votes

He's not playing LOL anymore for the time being.

I agree buff Trundle.

GaliöFeb 7, 20191 votes

I like to think of us as digimon.

I'm a rookie form that complains about one thing (Galios W) and sometimes other things

You're a champion form that complains about a few things at a time and tries to keep attention to Volibear.

D3stroy3R is an ultimate form (still dont know if I spell it right) complains about everything and is toxic 92% of the time and will never be happy with anything ever m.

But with Trundle, I feel maybe they should give him another scaling somewhere in his Kit to push him back into the meta a bit and not just be the anti-stat check stat checker that he is, even though that's what his niche will prob always be (especially against Sejuani)

PhearBunnyFeb 7, 20191 votes

{quoted}

I like to think of us as digimon.

I'm a rookie form that complains about one thing (Galios W) and sometimes other things

You're a champion form that complains about a few things at a time and tries to keep attention to Volibear.

D3stroy3R is an ultimate form (still dont know if I spell it right) complains about everything and is toxic 92% of the time and will never be happy with anything ever m.

But with Trundle, I feel maybe they should give him another scaling somewhere in his Kit to push him back into the meta a bit and not just be the anti-stat check stat checker that he is, even though that's what his niche will prob always be (especially against Sejuani)

I still like him in the scenario that bot lane has a healer, and I have a pure tank somewhere on the map to use R on. Makes Spirit Visage like a 9500g value item.

AirKingNeoFeb 8, 20191 votes

What Mega and Super Ultimate (yes, that's a thing, just far and few) form then?

GaliöFeb 8, 20191 votes

Beats me. With his aggressivel D3striy3r was I imagine any mega and super ultimates woukd be banned

ApocalypsicFeb 8, 20191 votes

{quoted}

I like to think of us as digimon.

I'm a rookie form that complains about one thing (Galios W) and sometimes other things

You're a champion form that complains about a few things at a time and tries to keep attention to Volibear.

D3stroy3R is an ultimate form (still dont know if I spell it right) complains about everything and is toxic 92% of the time and will never be happy with anything ever m.

But with Trundle, I feel maybe they should give him another scaling somewhere in his Kit to push him back into the meta a bit and not just be the anti-stat check stat checker that he is, even though that's what his niche will prob always be (especially against Sejuani)

Malicious Metal must be a digital Sovereign then.

GaliöFeb 8, 20191 votes

I think MM is closer to my level. I dont see him talk about too much and usually pops by with random relations for mordekaiser.

FOR JUSTICEFeb 7, 20192 votes

{quoted}

My man is back with the good complaints.

I wonder where D3stroy3r, or w.e his name was, went with the extreme angry rants though?

Anyways, after this sej changes I would have expected trundle changes since they were the yin/yang of competative.

But he was kind of forgotten which is strange. I do like me some good ol troll.

but where are the konotori/onotori and colton threads?

RagnaveilFeb 7, 20191 votes

lmfao, I remember that shit

NevrankroatonFeb 8, 20192 votes

It won't take much to make him back as a meta pick against tank.

Have tanks being played more and just revert the pillar nerf, boom, back in the frail.

Except the pillar nerf, his Q nerf got reverted anyway (he even has better AD ratio) so it isn't like Trundle got ultra nerf and riot shat on him.

SaezioFeb 7, 20191 votes

Amen. Also, Ornn possibly

JeaneGreeneFeb 8, 20191 votes

Remember when Ornn was a tank? Pepperidge farm remembers.

Iota ThetaFeb 8, 20191 votes

Ornn just needs a straight revert to release state (keep some of the QoL) and try again with actual tank in mind, not this higher damage tank/tank-fighter hybrid.

SaezioFeb 8, 20191 votes

well, the current HP W was a fiasco mate.

I think they should make him a straight up debuffer tank.

Work around his brittle to make it synergize well in teamfights.

Iota ThetaFeb 8, 20191 votes

{quoted}

well, the current HP W was a fiasco mate.

I think they should make him a straight up debuffer tank.

Work around his brittle to make it synergize well in teamfights.

I agree on the debuffer tank part. That was originally the main purpose of Brittle, debuff and reduce Tenacity so CC was more effective. That was part of his uniqueness, along with his lane building, and unreliability with strong CC in his knockups as rewards.

I don’t see how %current HP on W was a fiasco though. It was healthier than the %max HP, it reduced his general kill pressure more than now since it dealt less damage over the duration of a fight. Back then, the damage was less a focus and the shield/unstoppable + Brittle were the core of the ability. It was overloaded back then, but when it changed from that type of damage that it became an even more overloaded skill, prompting Riot to remove Unstoppable, nerf the damage, then swap the shield out and Unstoppable back in. At least before it dealt less damage as things went on.

SaezioFeb 8, 20191 votes

Well, it was a % current HP with no lower threshold. So if you used W on 5 enemies all at 1% hp it did 0 dmg and it was basically a self slow. Imagine if Mundo Q had no lower limit and you couldn't last hit anything with it. Ornn W was the same, you couldn't KILL anything with it, not even farm.

If they revert to Current HP they need to have at least a 80-130 lower limit to the dmg.

Iota ThetaFeb 8, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Well, it was a % current HP with no lower threshold. So if you used W on 5 enemies all at 1% hp it did 0 dmg and it was basically a self slow. Imagine if Mundo Q had no lower limit and you couldn't last hit anything with it. Ornn W was the same, you couldn't KILL anything with it, not even farm.

If they revert to Current HP they need to have at least a 80-130 lower limit to the dmg.

See, this makes me think you never used him or read his skills back then. It did have a minimum damage. I know because I could kill minions with it. Pulling from the wiki:

W: Bellows Breath ACTIVE: Ornn shields himself for 12% of maximum health for 2.5 seconds and marches unstoppably in the target direction over the next 0.75 seconds.

Over the march he belches fire over a cone in front of him, dealing magic damage every 0.15 seconds to enemies hit, up to a maximum of 15 / 17.5 / 20 / 22.5 / 25% of target's current health (with a minimum of 80 / 130 / 180 / 230 / 280 damage). The final bout of flame will apply Brittle

https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Ornn

Edit: I don’t mean the whole “not playing him” in a negative way, just that’s the impression I got. I apologize if it came off harsh.

SaezioFeb 8, 20191 votes

It is true I never played his first iterations because I spammed him in PBE and i am like 99% sure I couldn't kill people with W. I am pretty sure this also came up in a couple Ornn pro videos that I saw prior to his release. But it could just simply be foggy memory. I am pretty sure I would remember a 280 threshold though.

Iota ThetaFeb 8, 20191 votes

{quoted}

It is true I never played his first iterations because I spammed him in PBE and i am like 99% sure I couldn't kill people with W. I am pretty sure this also came up in a couple Ornn pro videos that I saw prior to his release. But it could just simply be foggy memory. I am pretty sure I would remember a 280 threshold though.

Well, it was there. I do remember killing minions with W’s damage. I hold his early self as his best version. Tweaks might’ve still been needed, but he wasn’t this balance mess he is now. But at this point, His focus, especially on W, needs to shift from his damage to his actual utility and tank nature. Brittle’s focus should be it’s tenacity debuff, not the %max HP damage pop, and W should be more application and maybe waveclear a but, if they want it to not have offense/utility application and defense; shift an actual defensive steroid (not Unstoppable) to maybe E, as others suggested, like giving a shield for being his Vanguard self and getting knockups.

...I’ve thought a lot about Ornn over his time after the %max health.

LordGeovanniFeb 8, 20191 votes

Ornn needed the Fighter damage buff riot just did it in the worse possible way by making his W max hp damage. What Orrn needed was either Ad scaling on his 3 non W damage abilites or ap scaling on at least 2 of his 3 non W damage abilites to tempt him to sacrifice a defensive item for a damage item so he could transition when he won lanes to protect his lead instead of 'oh looks like that time to start leveling my second ability now i guess i lose now'. he needed this to maybe tempt him to build another of his master work items having a litany of 9 extra items due to your passive and you cant use 6 of them feels super bad. I didnt mind paying 1000k gold for masterwork items and i dont want the level 13 lock from my masterwork items if i want to build Infernal mask first because im facing rumble and i know that its the only magic resist item i want in my build i should be able to do that. I also like Ornn Getting 2 masterwork items even if i have to pay 1k extra for them they should re institute that on a reverted Ornn and they should expand the master work register.

He would still need the Q pillar buff that he got R charge time. I have no problem with him being stunned during R when it gets close. but his E should either have a quicker wind up time the pillar rising is already long enough he doesnt need a wind up on E or make his E 20% longer and give it unstoppable (until he reaches his desitation at which point the remaining duration of cc kicks in)

Iota ThetaFeb 8, 20191 votes

I’m fine with him having two masterwork items, that makes sense and also the variety that he now has. That can stay.

But..

Ornn needed the Fighter damage buff riot just did it in the worse possible way by making his W max hp damage. What Orrn needed was either Ad scaling on his 3 non W damage abilites or ap scaling on at least 2 of his 3 non W damage abilites to tempt him to sacrifice a defensive item for a damage item so he could transition when he won lanes to protect his lead instead of 'oh looks like that time to start leveling my second ability now i guess i lose now'.

..why? Why did he need a “Fighter damage buff” and other scalings on his abilities? He’s a Vanguard tank. He should be building as a tank, not as fighter with more CC. So please tell me why he needed a “Fighter damage buff”?

LordGeovanniFeb 8, 20191 votes

because every other vangurd tank has high damage 380 base damage + 60% ap ratios. Ornn is a horrible vangard tank with in the first place with no way to get into the fight because his E has a super long wind up and cooldown. Orrn needed a fighter buff so that he could actually beat Assassins and mages and adcs that he got in melee range and not scale too badly after going even with a figher because of current hp damage in lane auto losing because you have no offensive build enemy finished their black cleaver so even if you counter built them you still arent tanky and the enemy got 20% cooldown while you got none with your sunfire cape build. There was far too big of a flip of orrn winning lanes even with current hp damage and losing as soon as level 8 hits because the enemies built damage and a null magic mantle by then. riot over buffed orrn with max hp damage. he needed either or better base damage or lower coodlowns for E and Q and for multiple of his skills to scale with the same stat. Orrn neeeded the Fighter option to be open to him so that He wasnt locked out of his own masterwork items item 3374 item 3371 item 3390 item 3384 which felt increadibly bad and made him not want to be played by people and because he had wosrse base damage than other tanks much like fighters and but he also had long cooldowns like a tank and on top of both of those he is clunky when casting all of his spells that lock him out of auto attacking cutting his damage from what it could be with a smoother kit.

Iota ThetaFeb 8, 20191 votes

{quoted}

because every other vangurd tank has high damage 380 base damage + 60% ap ratios. Ornn is a horrible vangard tank with in the first place with no way to get into the fight because his E has a super long wind up and cooldown. Orrn needed a fighter buff so that he could actually beat Assassins and mages and adcs that he got in melee range and not scale too badly after going even with a figher because of current hp damage in lane auto losing because you have no offensive build enemy finished their black cleaver so even if you counter built them you still arent tanky and the enemy got 20% cooldown while you got none with your sunfire cape build. There was far too big of a flip of orrn winning lanes even with current hp damage and losing as soon as level 8 hits because the enemies built damage and a null magic mantle by then. riot over buffed orrn with max hp damage. he needed either or better base damage or lower coodlowns for E and Q and for multiple of his skills to scale with the same stat. Orrn neeeded the Fighter option to be open to him so that He wasnt locked out of his own masterwork items which felt increadibly bad and made him not want to be played by people and because he had wosrse base damage than other tanks much like fighters and but he also had long cooldowns like a tank and on top of both of those he is clunky when casting all of his spells that lock him out of auto attacking cutting his damage from what it could be with a smoother kit.

Crazy idea, maybe he was a better tank because he didn’t have damage soaking up his power budget. Ornn was my main back then, and he had enough damage in his kit, and his power was in other areas. Ask his other mains at the time, and a good number believe he didn’t need more damage or ratios. Ornn is a tank, and really, he was probably closer to the standard of tank. You say other tanks have higher damage, ever connect that that’s one thing people hate when fighting tanks? They are bulky, CC/utility, teamfighting monsters, they need just enough damage to survive and draw some attention, but their goal is engage, disengage, lockdown, utility.

Ornn’s engage was his R, as it is now. Use the Ornn Horn at enough of a range to start a fight and avoid being CC’d, get the knockup, charge in. Righteous Glory was good for that as well. E was slower but was still incredibly useful when near enough to terrain. Sure, it’s not Malphite ult or Maokai W, but it’s not supposed to be. For a basic skill to have as much CC potential as it did, it was fine. Once he got in, Unstoppable ensured he stayed in.

Just because he couldn’t build all of his Masterworks items himself doesn’t mean it was bad. He wasn’t supposed to be able to build any of them for himself and synergize well. Like..if he was supposed to, why introduce Rabadon’s and IE Masterworks? No, they were designed to be items for his whole team, which is why some didn’t synergize with him. Forgefire and Infernal were great on him. (P.S. the level 13 restriction was because people were rushing his Masterwork items and they are not that slot efficient that early, nowhere near as valuable as a different passive. They were intended as capstones, once everything else was built).

No, Ornn was a true tank back then, and an excellent one at that, no damage buff needed. His average winrate was just under 50% before they superbuffed his damage, his mains sometimes carrying higher than that, and that’s impressive for a team oriented class in solo. So no, get this “Ornn/tanks needed more damage and reason to build damage items.” He’s a tank, not some juggernaut or fighter. Damage is not his strength, nor should it ever be.

LordGeovanniFeb 8, 20191 votes

Wait you were an Ornn main for the first 2 days he was live and had current health hp. I was playing him then too but i wouldnt call my self a main then.

we are talking about Orrn from his current health version which was only live for 2 days. I watched him on PBE alot because he was interesting but i didnt play it.

Iota ThetaFeb 8, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Wait you were an Ornn main for the first 2 days he was live and had current health hp. I was playing him then too but i wouldnt call my self a main then.

we are talking about Orrn from his current health version which was only live for 2 days. I watched him on PBE alot because he was interesting but i didnt play it.

Umm, Ornn had it much longer than 2 days. He was released in August, Patch 7.17. His W did not get changed from %current hp to %max hp until Patch 7.20, which was 7 weeks after his release. No, his %current health was not on live for only 2 day.

LordGeovanniFeb 8, 20191 votes

my bad you right he did get a hot fix buff 2 days after he went live but it wasnt the max hp buff he they buffed the current hp to 25% from 20% then it got changed from 25% current hp to 20% max hp.

PhearBunnyFeb 7, 20191 votes

Hard for any immobile tank to do very well in a game with so much true damage. what would you suggest as a buff? Maybe slapping True damage reduction onto his Frozen Domain?

Moody PFeb 7, 20192 votes

let autos cleave on frozen domain so he can have a less dog ass clear as compensation for getting dabbed on by the tiamat nerf a while back when he was already ass

Abibyama IIFeb 7, 20191 votes

Maybe frozen domain should buff allies as well?

Moody PFeb 7, 20191 votes

give him a cleave on it so he clears faster and has better wave push

Sir SaltarinFeb 7, 20191 votes

I got the Traditional Trundle shard, should I craft it ?

Moody PFeb 7, 20191 votes

ehhh

Junkyard is my favorite

AlienPrimateFeb 8, 20192 votes

I like his voice lines. One of them is "Defeat Trundle, are you trolling?"

LovelleFeb 7, 20191 votes

He wasn't overpowered in any way before his nerfs, that is why he's doing so badly now. Honestly, if they reverted the nerfs to his pillar he would be in a better spot.

Tiamat was recently nerfed as well, which is generally one of his first items. Despite this, there was no compensation from Riot.

The Vayne buff certainly isn't helping him either, plus he struggles against Sylas, who's kit has the potential to completely invalidate his.

RysophageFeb 7, 20191 votes

he's simply outdated. the only reason he ever sees play is when his ult is relevant. all of the "i just run at you" champions like garen, voli, nasus, trundle, need hard cc or something just bonkers about them. It's pretty hard to function when every champ made past 2015 has 17 dashes and invulnerability and stealth or some shit. But these champions arent flashy so they wont be in LC$ so dont expect much to change.

Sewer SideFeb 8, 20191 votes

Make Trundle a cute anime waifu and she will get the full attention of Riot.

It’s the best buff he needs

Poop JohnsonFeb 8, 20191 votes

Honestly Riot needs to find out what they want to do with him and keep him there instead of keeping him in the wishy washy spot between jungle and top. Off the top of my head I would say give him

Better healing with his passive vs champions, big minions, and large monsters
The cleave with his W like you said because that would help his clear and pushing a lot.
His W could be smaller & have a shorter duration but have a lot lower cooldown/a way of lowering it's cooldown
Not make his E straight trash until he levels it up
Reduce his ult's stealing effect but buff out his base stats to compensate

GrokmirFeb 8, 20191 votes

tbh he just needs EITHER buffs OR a lower damage meta.

If rito actually plans on lowering damage then i don't think trundle needs buffs. Or if they bring back a tank meta he'd do fine.

Idk what they could really do to him in this meta without just buffing his damage tho. Maybe make his ult give him a flat mr/armor buff so its more useful vs non-tank champs.

KuroradeFeb 8, 20191 votes

Buff Kled

AlienPrimateFeb 8, 20191 votes

I have found some good success with him as a support. Just max E and use it mostly to secure kills on enemies with poor position or to follow up on ADCs with CC of their own like Vayne's E or Caitlyn's traps. I like to save it most of the time though because it is one of the strongest gank disruptors in the game in my opinion.

NaalithFeb 8, 20191 votes

Revert the Trundle rework. I want the Trundle who steals even more stats and is immune to CC back and is also a disgusting filthy troll with sarcastic voice lines.

Seriously, I'm glad I had him back in the day because his traditional skin is just better than everything they did to him. Unfortunately playing Trundle reminds me of how bad they shafted him in the rework and now he's dogshit because of pro play. Fuck pro play.

Warlord RhinarkFeb 8, 20191 votes

Claps

Moody P, my boy, you're right as always.

We need to do something.

However, I have to question something.

Isn't Trundle's waveclear kept bad on purpose to balance out his ability to take down Towers quickly?

Wouldn't giving him a Cleave on Frozen Domain remove this weakness?

I'm all for Trundle buffs, but shouldn't his weaknesses be kept as, you know, weaknesses?

What are your thoughts on this?

14daysuspensionkFeb 8, 20191 votes

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-qBYEBojXg0k/U1uSxMDk3oI/AAAAAAAATTI/dn5E2PISSBc/s1600/Trundle-League-of-Legends-Facebook-Cover-Photos-12.jpg

Respect Women XDFeb 8, 20191 votes

well trundle in jungle make enemy turret unkillable so i guess this is still op

ZedthulFeb 9, 20191 votes

The problem with Trundle is there are not really any good Runes page builds for him. I think Regen builds are the most fun and make the most sense for him, but it takes way to long to build that path. By the time he has the gold to build regen the game is over or everyone else has out scaled him.

Lord DakuMar 24, 20191 votes

Justincrease his passive by 1% so its 3%/4%/5%/6%/7%, make Trundles Q Heal him for 5% of his missing health and increase the slow to 1 sec ( i mean he bites something out of his enemy, so healing from that meat would be nice) and give his w a 5-10% slow ( it is a frozen Domain, so it should give at least some sort of debuff to enemys, also helps trundle to stick to enemy especially with the Approatch Velocity Rune) and maybe let his Q deal 5% of the current health of his enemy with minimum dmg of 10-15 ( since it is his only damaging spell he can use thats not an ult)

or do something with his magical club of true ice, they could do something with it like give the enemy a slow or let it deal magic ice damage, would wor well with his kit since he is aa based