Hecarim shouldn't be able to DPS constantly

D357R0Y3R·Jan 7, 2017·11 votes·952 views

HE'S A DIVER RIOT, NOT A SKIRMISHER

the problem atm is that vi/hecarim/lee, those champs are divers with an absurd burst yet have a skirmisher level of DPS

vi with her W passive hecarim with his Q that has like 1 second cd and his basic attacks

he's able to E on a target remove 50% of its hp (working as intended, diver=burst) and then he can constantly AA and use Q to DPS

i say increase his Q cd/reduce base damage, and reduce his attack speed per level by a lot

17 Comments

XeruonJan 7, 20175 votes

If you do this without any compensation, he's gonna remove half of a squishy's healthbar, and then be a sitting duck since he won't be able to kill them effectively.

DreadlocksJan 7, 20172 votes

Perhaps increase hecs healing if they do that? i mean.. i'm not counting the idea out completely, i agree with your point. But maybe they COULD compensate in a different way rather than damage.

XeruonJan 7, 20171 votes

His healing doesn't need any buffs. Assuming that these nerfs are applied, he will be virtually impossible to play. His healing scales with a stat he doesn't build, and 50% of Hec's damage is in his Q and AAs, meaning that his Q would have to be changed in such a way that it's not spammable but allows him to close out kills effectively, which is hard to do.

DreadlocksJan 8, 20171 votes

They could alter his W in a way that he does benefit though. I'm just saying. Though i don't think hecarim's damage after his E/R is really all that impressive anyways.. if the enemy team has a sona then hes gana be a sitting duck regardless. ( or any decent healer for that matter)

AhristocatsJan 7, 20173 votes

i think the attack speed/lvl nerf is enough, it would reduce his damage without making him a sitting duck

also nerf his base attack speed 0.67 is tooooooo much this is what gives him a massive dps

D357R0Y3RJan 7, 20171 votes

then how do you nerf him?

doodlebob666Jan 8, 20171 votes

things like lowering the ratio on his passive to weaken ghost ganks and maybe increase the number of rampage stacks he needs to get to full damage since this wouldn't really lower his damage but still make him take longer in a fight to get going. Lowering the heal from his w could also slow down his clear enough that he isn't one of the best jungle farmers in the game

XeruonJan 8, 20172 votes

Nerf how well he scales with tank stats. He should still be somewhat tanky, but shouldn't have 4k HP and almost 200 of both resists come late game.

Asayake 5150glowJan 7, 20172 votes

{quoted}

If you do this without any compensation, he's gonna remove half of a squishy's healthbar, and then be a sitting duck since he won't be able to kill them effectively.

That's the point, considering he has a point and click knock back which is really hard to get away from if you didn't ward deep enough, and a big AoE fear.

He shouldn't be able to 100-0 a squishy, perhaps 100-40 and have a teammate (laner who he is ganking?) finish them. So maybe a little buffs to his damage, but he's not supposed to be able to kill them.

XeruonJan 7, 20173 votes

Hecarim is a diver. They are basically assassins that trade an escape for more CC and tank stats. His job is to get in an kill their carries, but he never 100-0s them unless he's extremely fed and builds more than one damage item. Against a caught-out squishy, he uses his E to close the gap and 100-50 them, then uses his Q and AAs to dps them down, using his ult to chase them if they blow whatever escapes they have.

In other words, yes. He is supposed to kill them.

Asayake 5150glowJan 8, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Hecarim is a diver. They are basically assassins that trade an escape for more CC and tank stats. His job is to get in an kill their carries, but he never 100-0s them unless he's extremely fed and builds more than one damage item. Against a caught-out squishy, he uses his E to close the gap and 100-50 them, then uses his Q and AAs to dps them down, using his ult to chase them if they blow whatever escapes they have.

In other words, yes. He is supposed to kill them.

That's still not 100-0'ing. That's 100-30'ing and killing them as they try to run away.

But you know, if he can 100-50 them with... just his E (as you said, he saves his R to chase them down)... that's a bit of a problem. Perhaps 100-70'ing, then dps'ing them to 50, then as they run, ulting them to 20, and then dps'ing them to death?

Divers are meant to build more than 1 damage item... one of the problems is that Heca is going Triforce into full tank and still nearly 100-0'ing (as far as I can tell). You don't see assassins building triforce and full tank, do you?

Honestly most of the time I see Heca diving with his E, Q'ing once and ulting, then auto'ing/Q'ing again and tada! Enemy mid is dead! But for some reason that doesn't feel quite accurate... I dunno, depends on how tanky the mid laner is.

MunchCrunchLunchJan 8, 20171 votes

{quoted}

If you do this without any compensation, he's gonna remove half of a squishy's healthbar, and then be a sitting duck since he won't be able to kill them effectively.

right because its the 4.5k hp tank job to kill people right?

RexSaurJan 8, 20173 votes

It should be the other way around.

They should heavily nerf his E and R damage, and make it so he has to stick to a target for a while with Q's and trinity procs before he can kill them.

His gap closers do not need to come with 500+ damage.

ChaddyFantomeJan 7, 20171 votes

im fine with skirmishers having DPS, in fact, this should be ideal.

What im not okay with is them having the same or more burst as Assassins AND in a shorter time.

If Divers are supposed to be more tanky , they shouldn't BE bursting people in 1 shot, but be doing moderate burst and then finishing the and following through in the fight with their DPS, using their moderate durability to let them muscle through it to do so.

The real problem is that Hecarim can 100-0 you in faster time frame an assassin can, while still having all that DPS and being tanky as a motherfucker.

Titanium70Jan 7, 20171 votes

Heca infact should be focused around DPS! His Q as well as his W reward him for sticking to an opponent. He just deals so much DMG with his gapclosers, that his DPS is just the cherry on top.

A bursty diver is just an Assassin without escape: Prime example Diana . Same Problem, less MS. Rewarding him with AD for getting MS seems like the right idea since AD historicly is a stat MEANT for DPS, but - all hail DMG-Creep - he deals like 1-2k DMG when 'engaging'.

Asayake 5150glowJan 7, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Heca infact should be focused around DPS! His Q as well as his W reward him for sticking to an opponent. He just deals so much DMG with his gapclosers, that his DPS is just the cherry on top.

A bursty diver is just an Assassin without escape: Prime example . Same Problem, less MS. Rewarding him with AD for getting MS seems like the right idea since AD historicly is a stat MEANT for DPS, but - all hail DMG-Creep - he deals like 1-2k DMG when 'engaging'.

I like this idea! How about Heca keeps a % of his bonus movespeed which he gather during his E, after he uses it, but reduce/get rid of his (scaling) E damage?

SlythionJan 8, 20171 votes

Divers are meant to dive the backline with slight burst followed by dps. If you move to either extreme (100% burst or 100% dive with no damage) they become assassins or vanguards (a type of tank)

From my point of view, you just described a steriotypical diver and then complained about the 2 best divers...being the best at what you just described