Honestly Muramana needs a rework, not buffs

xxxMadLionxxx··92 votes·11,069 views

Because the only champ who uses this items is Ezreal . The item has become outdated as a lot of the users have been reworked or have found better itemization.

Hence the buffs on the PBE are a step in the wrong direction as it only benefits 1 champ.

The item needs to appeal to more champs, mages included.

126 Comments

RiotNot Surrendering31 votes

I actually think that Muramana is a pretty interesting item as is (sac your early game for a strong mid game spike), though external factors mean that its set of users is quite limited as you've noted. (Mana regen is high across the board, since AD items are so hard bound makes the opportunity cost very high, etc.).

Also there's questions as to whether Jayce is a good muramana user from a game health perspective, because it reduces his reliance to get in melee range to solve his mana issues, but as we saw in the C9, SKT game, it also gives Jayce a bit of a better decision tree against tanky opponents where he'd otherwise run out of mana.

Having said that, we don't have the scope to rework Muramana right now and buffing it up to retain its relative value to Crit items seemed like a better decision.

Kaìju7 votes

You think you can buff it to be as good as crit? Who would buy that? Melee champions can't get it because it takes forever and gives no tank stats, and ADCs don't get it because they can just get ER. And other random ones don't get it because there are better items. So who is it intended for? Even if you buff it by a lot, who would buy it you think? Because I wanna like it, I enjoy the late game spike for worse early but there isn't a single Hyper Carry that can get it that I can think of.

Skins Project2 votes

LucianKogMaw i think could abuse it ._.

Salson52 votes

Having said that, we don't have the scope to rework Muramana right now and buffing it up to retain its relative value to Crit items seemed like a better decision.

Don't Crit items need nerfs?

They're too cost efficient, either nerf them or give them higher costs, as the current state is ridiculous.

THE RlVER KlNG27 votes

how about you fucking nerf crit items as well

AirKingNeo11 votes

Doing job = hard

Sqkerg4 votes

It’s not that simple and you know it. I wish people would stop pretending like it just takes a couple of seconds to solve all the world’s problems.

AirKingNeo7 votes

"Ardent censer is warping the game, what do we do?"

"Uhhhhhhh"

2 months later

"Ardent censer is still breaking the game! Please fix it!"

"Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh"

compensation buffs it

a patch passes

"Ardent censer is literally all worlds is about. Can you please do your fucking job?!"

"Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh"

Another week passes

more intense ardent chatter

"Ok, fine. We're making it only broken in the late game!"


I don't know about you, but I think it's wrong for the balance team to live more than 5 and a half patches behind everyone else. Then again, you failed to remember one fatal thing: Riot literally doesn't care about balance and is 100% absolutely, perfectly fine with this meta and wanted this. They've even admitted to such.

So yes, I do think it is VERY FUCKING EASY to fix the game. "Oh but perfect balance is impossible and you don't know what you're talking about!!! Rioters know their job better!!!!!" Does that mean Locket having a health ratio and being abused by tanks for the past 5 months is acceptable? Ardent being beyond broken for 3 is acceptable? Should Rioters really have their job when they make changes, such as giving Locket a health ratio, that VERY OBVIOUSLY create MORE PROBLEMS? Should Rioters really have their job if they can't even take the first step of solving the problem? This level of incompetence, ignorance, pure bias, and childishness is unacceptable in a professional job for balancing the world's most popular competitive game. I know more than 10 people who I'd rather be the balance team; hire them instead.

SnakDatSmilesBak2 votes

Think about it this kind of protect the adc comp could possibly be one of the best types of metas. Every role could be represented; you could have a utility support with a tank, assassin, adc, and a mage. This is because team fighting would be the focus of this meta. It'd be front to back with some spice and pretty good for competitive. Thing is an item like ardent cencer, or however you spell it, isn't a good way to do that. By making it an item riot made the most effective strategy in bot lane rushing this item. From there snowballing was much more likely since it amplified every adc spike afterwards, and the adc became the center of the meta because of how well adcs deal with certain strong tanks. Ofc this is hindsight bias of mine, if I was making the decision I probably wouldn't have done better.

If I was to change ardent cencer in a way to promote that meta I described I'd make it heal your ally after you heal or shield them for 5-50 on hit for some seconds and have some ap and move speed on it and cost some gold. Then make other items that give your ad some other bonuses. The idea is to make a set of items for enchanters to be able to choose from but really there was only one super powerful one.

Edit idk if that's a good idea the post just seemed incomplete without it.

Sp33d Zer06 votes

"Let's nerf an entire class of items because one item is doing badly"

Awoof3 votes

Or because he thinks that said class of items is overpowered anyways.

mike in the box25 votes

Keep it civil man. Its comments like this that make the devs avoid the boards.

Trading Stance - I think I agree with the OP on this one. The manna Regen is cool but the adding damage to auto attacks is awkward and makes the item too narrow. In its current from the item is only appealing to a champion who

  1. Is Ad
  2. Wants manna
  3. Has spells it can spam
  4. Wants to scale into the late game
  5. Can utilize auto attacks well (so basically ranged.)

That is a very narrow set of conditions, which is kind of a problem for the item and its viability.

THE RlVER KlNG13 votes

I don't have anything against any dev personally, not even people who get a lot of hate like Ghostcrawler and CertainlyT, I think they're all generally cool people who enjoy the game as much as we do

but the game has reached a point where the balance team has utterly failed on multiple fronts

Meddler is really the only red who bothers to respond to criticism at this point I'll commend him for that

Rioters 99% of the time only respond to praise and its a little disheartening someties. I get that the boards can be nasty and childish, any internet forum is like that, but sometimes Riot has to admit theyre wrong! and respond to valid criticisms when they do show up. if they want to stay clear of B5 yasuo ragers im all for that. but they also need to open themselves up more to criticism when its well-worded and argued

KoKoboto3 votes

Thing is that it's not even that good when it turns into Manamune

Rockem Sockm22 votes

The item no longer fits into league.

Mid game starts at 15 now. You sacrifice lane phase for an even worse powerspike than standard builds.

It needs to become a starting item and/or scale harder.

The changes really accomplish nothing.

Tails90164 votes

Mid game starts at 15 now

I thought that was when games are supposed to end

/s

Warlord Rhinark13 votes

Urgot This guy used to build it too but then Riot gutted him.

Entheos Geon45 votes

You mean successfully made him into a champion that's more fun and less binary?

Warlord Rhinark45 votes

Perhaps gutted wasn't the right term and I apologize if it wasn't. I just really miss the old Urgot.

[sg-soraka]

statelesskiller20 votes

its okay. i miss old vlad

crippler3819 votes

I miss old Shaco.

Thresh Outta Fux21 votes

I miss old Malz.

SuperLuigiLXIV11 votes

I miss old Zac.

Malicious Metal12 votes

I don't miss old Morde.

Sexy Braixen8 votes

I miss old Galio.

Dragonborn73940 votes

I miss my dad.

Sancre8 votes

I miss Dragonborn739's dad, and also old Ryze

Fairyfleur6 votes

I miss old Zyra Q's shape

Miror B6 votes

I miss the days when people could say what was on their mind without having to worry about "political correctness" or "offending someone". Those were the days...

MtFerventCatgirl4 votes

i miss obama

Morgan le Fey2 votes

I miss old Valor.

Big Black Croc6 votes

I miss old league

Mordepool4 votes

{quoted}

I miss old league

Yeah bro.

NvestmentPlanker2 votes

I miss when Graves still had a cigar

Mhihnj7 votes

he got it back tho

Lit Corn1 votes

i do not agree , i miss the old urgot in jgl : item 1001 item 1412 item 3812 item 3046 item 3078 item 3004 with R , red smite and auto , you get 100% dmge reduction on a single target , would be op in the current meta since its all about tanks and shield sup with adc , so u deny adc dmges and the rest cant do shit either ...

Xilixer3 votes

well old urgot certainly had more range than the new one. the lock on q was glorious. but with q's new delay and w's short range makes him harder to use in a way.

LostFr0st5 votes

The changes don't do anything for Ez... They changed it from 2 per 8 to 4 per 16 and then now 3 per 12.

That shift only affects champs who have long cds which stop them from charging tear as fast. Mostly mages tbh.

10Tickler2 votes

The only 'Mages' who actually build tear are Rapid-casters anyways. Ryze, Karthus, [The occasional AP heavy Singed] all do so well with it. Anivia gets/needs tear for mana sustain in early game, because her base pool's really small, and

This is Opinion only:

I like building it as an early game item on Karma (Pre-league of Censors meta), as She's pretty Spammy too, and the increased mana gen is super helpful, while making sure she doesn't fall off so hard (in support role) come lategame.

Mcsquzzy5 votes

the main problem is that games have been tweaked to be shorter, so building up the mana to use this is not feasible for most champs

OyddAWqJ5r4 votes

Uh... Why mages? They have item 3040 , which could probably use some love of it's own.

Catastrop3 votes

I think he means ad mages, which is really what ad casters are.

Erockandroll3 votes

{quoted}

I think he means ad mages, which is really what ad casters are.

Honestly, the range between an AD scaler who relies on Abilities, could be anywhere from an Assassin to a Juggernaut. But when people refer to an AD mage, it's usually a siege style mage with a lot of poke. (Since most AD burst fall into the category of Assassin)

And it's interesting, cause whether an AP mage is classified as "Burst, Artillery, or Battle" doesn't change the fact that a major mana item is a core part of their build. But for AD counterparts, only the siege builds really need a significant source of mana in their itemization.

So we are talking a very narrow band of champions who A) Scale of of AD, and B) want to poke. And some champs like Jayce who use to build Tear, look to different styles with different builds. (Namely, that Lethality builds will kill before mana's a problem) Likewise, the more AA centric champions turned to ER.

It's difficult to really analyses this because Poke so far out of meta at the moment. Glass cannons are sustaining thanks to the enchanter meta, and Tanks have Knight's vow and Wormargs to shrug off damage. Meaning that nothing sticks. Personally though, I would actually look at the effect of the fully stacked Muranamana, since it basically functions on auto attacks. (For a siege style effect, shouldn't it's active/passive/whatever, be ability based?)

Thilmer3 votes

Most AD champions doesn't really need mana rigth now, since AD casters are out of meta.

GrReaper964 votes

Not only that, champions that used to rely on it Jayce Pantheon Khazix (these were waaaayyy back) have long been changed to no longer need it.

General Esdeath 3 votes

I remember when Anivia Annie Cassiopeia Ezreal Heimerdinger Janna Jayce Karthus Lux Malzahar Ryze Singed Swain Veigar Xerath Ziggs used to all build tear.

Kaìju2 votes

Could they rework Tear to be a starting item, and it actually builds into a bunch of different items? Like you could lower it's starting cost, and when it finishes you can get one of a few items. One for AP, AD, HP, or say resistances. Each one is based on your mana. For example the AD one could be something like, the less mana you have the more AD you get with a theme about desperation in battle and fighting on empty. The HP one could be something like if you run out of mana you can instead use HP to cast spells, based on a %cost or something. The AP could give CDR per say 500 mana so you just stack pure AP and Mana with nothing else. Would that be viable?

kile1477 votes

item 3191 + item 3070 =

60 AP 30 Armor 250 -1000 Mana Based on tear stacks

Unique Passive: Awe - Grants armor equal to 2% of maximum mana. Refunds 15% of mana spent.

Unique Passive: Mana Charge - Grants +4 maximum mana on spell cast, mana expenditure, or auto attack. (Max 2 times per 8 seconds)

10Tickler5 votes

item 3070 + item 3751

250-1000 Mana, based on Stacks 350 HP

Unique Passive: Mana Charge - Grants +4 maximum mana on spell cast, mana expenditure, or auto attack. (Max 2 times per 8 seconds) Unique Passive: Mana Burn - does 5 (+.095/20 stacks) Magic damage to nearby enemy Monsters, Minions or Champions.

Final Item transformed

1000 Mana 550 HP

Unique Passive: Mana Burn - Does 11 (+.25/200 Maximum mana) AOE Burn damage to nearby Monsters, enemy Minions and Enemy Champions. Mana is restored at a .1 per tick per target ratio.

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