Twitch's Contaminate feels too much like dumbed-down Kalista's Rend; A Suggestion

MealReadytoEat··2 votes·784 views

Hitting six stacks feels more like a punishment than a reward right now; it marks the end of your Contaminate and passive increasing in damage, not some threshold where it becomes awesome; it really should do something special at 6 stacks.

A simple fix would be to have Contaminate do true damage when used on a target with 6 stacks, similar to Rek'sai's e, but a much more awesome mechanic to add to Contaminate would be this: "At 6 stacks, the poison is Expunged, removing all stacks of Deadly Venom to deal 72 / 108 / 144 / 180 / 216 bonus true damage" (At levels 1/5/9/13/17; this is the same damage the 6 stacks would have done over their 6 seconds had they not been Expunged)

This would let Twitch's passive feel much more rewarding in extended fights, as once he applies 6 stacks he could expunge for full damage and then still be rewarded for applying it up to another 6 times.

Its a throw back to Expunge back on the 500 range Twitch I knew and loved. The ability would be so much more satisfying if the giant skull at 6 stacks meant something. It would make it feel like a unique element to his kit rather than a worse Rend.

If this is makes him too strong, a good solution would be lowering his early game passive damage to 1 dps per stack like it was in patches 4.10 to 5.5; That would lower his max expunge true damage to 36 levels 1 through 3.

For a harder to understand mechanic, but one that is closer to my intentions, Expunge could do the exact damage Deadly Venom would have done over its remaining duration, rather than the damage it would do over 6 seconds - this matters quite a bit when Twitch doesn't expunge till several seconds since he last attacked.

I think this is the kind of love Twitch needs to get back on his feet, not slow reversal of nerfs to his stealth as an escape.

(This is an offshoot of my post about the future of Jungle Twitch, here)

7 Comments

Maple Crusader1 votes

Your suggestion sounds really awful. You're going to break Twitch this way. Twitch just needs his stealth nerfs reverted and Kalista nerfed.

MealReadytoEat1 votes

{quoted}

Your suggestion sounds really awful. You're going to break Twitch this way. Twitch just needs his stealth nerfs reverted and Kalista nerfed.

How would this break twitch? Its only an increase in his damage in very specific circumstances - the damage added to expunge at 6 stacks is taken from his poison's DoT, so it only an increase in damage if he's getting someone to 6 stacks, expunging, then stacking the passive back up.

Smegma1231 votes

Ya I think this would break Twitch, he would get so much stronger in fights and he would exert tremendous pressure on the enemy team. It is definetely a fun sounding change, but the pressure and feeling of "omfg its twitch" for the enemy team would be too oppressive.

MealReadytoEat1 votes

{quoted}

Ya I think this would break Twitch, he would get so much stronger in fights and he would exert tremendous pressure on the enemy team. It is definetely a fun sounding change, but the pressure and feeling of "omfg its twitch" for the enemy team would be too oppressive.

Keep in mind it's not adding true damage to his kit, its letting his e convert his passive DoT into burst; but for the same total damage, and only when he hits 6 stacks.

I think it'd be a great change, and if it made him too strong, they could nerf other parts of his kit, like reducing the base damage of contaminate, or if the 72 true damage at levels 1-4 was too strong they could change his DoT back to its extremely nerfed state of 1 damage per second per stack at level 1-3, for only 36 true damage early levels on expunge.

I added a line to the post suggesting that.

Smegma1231 votes

The stacks are removed right? That means if he gets 6, all stacks are removed, and then he can restack them, restarting the true damage once again and giving him enough of a boost in damage and prescence to dominate fights. It'll be the feeling of oppression for the enemy team that will be the worst. "You can't let Twitch get 6 stacks at any cost" - this is fine on melee champs, but on ranged champs it becomes a bit oppressive.

On the other hand, nerfing his other damage to compensate, like contaminate or expunge makes twitch even more reliant on getting 6 stacks. Normally that's fine - but early on, it will make his laning phase even weaker.

Late game, if Twitch gets 6 stacks on 3 people(can't say that's not a reasonable situation considering his ultimate), thats about 600 extra true damage, ON TOP of which he gets to restack. Nobody will beat Twitch in a fight that goes over 6-7 seconds.

If it cost his E instead of automatically activating, that along with a slight cooldown increase(keep it same level 1 and give it an additional 2 or 3 seconds by level 5) on E might make it a worthwhile change. Maybe for 50% or 75% of the dot damage as well - that gives Twitch a reasonable choice - should he get the reduced burst dmg now, or the increased dmg over time?

MealReadytoEat1 votes

{quoted}

If it cost his E instead of automatically activating, that along with a slight cooldown increase(keep it same level 1 and give it an additional 2 or 3 seconds by level 5) on E might make it a worthwhile change. Maybe for 50% or 75% of the dot damage as well - that gives Twitch a reasonable choice - should he get the reduced burst dmg now, or the increased dmg over time?

I think you misunderstood me - I'm talking about how his E feels really lack luster compared to Kalista, and how this would be a cool thing mechanic to add to his E when he has someone poisoned at 6 stacks.

What I was going for was that the E at 6 stacks would make the poison do all its damage at that instant, but remove the poison - No net increase in damage, unless he manages to poison them again after.

I agree with you that expunge has no need for its scaling cool down reduction, there is really no reason for it to scale lower than the 12 second cd it starts at level 1 - You really should only be using it once per trade/ fight.

I'll update the post to make my intentions real clear.

Smegma1231 votes

That makes a lot more sense. I thought at first that just by hitting 6 stacks the effect would activate.

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