Why is Riven getting her E nerf reverted?

Śhunpo·Sep 19, 2019·40 votes·15,128 views

They're decreasing the cooldown of her E from 14-10 down to 12-8....and then they're reverting the Q buff.

So basically Riven is the exact same as she was before the patch where her E and Q got changed.

I really do feel like Riot isn't listening to us at all when we say "Riven is too strong", as they're quite literally just reverting her back to her toxic E spamming playstyle which severely lacked counterplay the moment she hit the CDR cap.

JUST NERF HER, SHE DOES NOT NEED COMPENSATION BUFFS

94 Comments

IlovemobasSep 19, 201935 votes

The developers unlike most of the community love Riven, yasuo and vayne and willingly keep them more powerful than other champions.

Daddy AntsSep 19, 201910 votes

{quoted}

The developers unlike most of the community love Riven, yasuo and vayne and willingly keep them more powerful than other champions.

Yasuo and Vayne aren't "more powerful than their lane counterparts" at all.

Yasuo is ranked 28/39 for Mid Lane Yasuo is ranked 39/44 for Top Lane Yasuo is ranked 6/17 for Bottom Lane.

Vayne is ranked 11/17 for Bottom Lane. Vayne is ranked 32/44 for Top Lane.

Riven is ranked 37/44 for Top Lane.

Cat on Roids v2Sep 19, 20193 votes

Yet they are some of the most toxic champions in the game. At least Vayne and Riven. Yasuo is irrelevant and litterally part of the new bronzodia.

Daddy AntsSep 20, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cat on Roids v2,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JXQY91Qo,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2019-09-19T20:01:44.160+0000)

Yet they are some of the most toxic champions in the game. At least Vayne and Riven. Yasuo is irrelevant and litterally part of the new bronzodia.

You not knowing how to beat a champion doesn't make them toxic.

Play the champions, learn their weaknesses because they have plenty.

Trist mid opopSep 19, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Yasuo and Vayne aren't "more powerful than their lane counterparts" at all.

Yasuo is ranked 28/39 for Mid Lane Yasuo is ranked 39/44 for Top Lane Yasuo is ranked 6/17 for Bottom Lane.

Vayne is ranked 11/17 for Bottom Lane. Vayne is ranked 32/44 for Top Lane.

Riven is ranked 37/44 for Top Lane.

The yasuo stats i can explain. The champion yasuo is strong, the players just lose so much braincells they int at him. My theory for riven being 37/44. After the riven nerfs, an analyser (Riven main) said she was gutted and tried to move her to 44/44, but the rest of the analyzers didnt agree with him. The analysers are still trying to explain that riven isnt gutted and the analyser is just trash at her

Sightless66Sep 19, 20194 votes

Those analyzers are computer algorithms. Humans aren't making that decision.

PumpedheroSep 19, 20193 votes

i wish this were the case. S6 Yas makes S9 yas look like hes just a cannon minion

preternaturalSep 19, 201929 votes

riven skin. that's your answer there's a PRESTIGE edition.

NaonSep 20, 20191 votes

{quoted}

riven skin. that's your answer there's a PRESTIGE edition.

Not only is she getting the prestige skin, she has the golden chroma for her championship launching again as well. Got to go all out for one of Riots poster gurls.

wolviusSep 19, 201920 votes

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/_E-_CtBXtMUEOMHRcfytI20tU80=/75x0:885x540/1200x800/filters:focal(75x0:885x540)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/1955623/hitman-absolution-blake-dexter.0.jpg Money

And prestige editions https://pics.me.me/chair-vs-chair-prestige-edition-43625153.png

ImTheJuggernautySep 19, 20199 votes

{quoted}

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/_E-_CtBXtMUEOMHRcfytI20tU80=/75x0:885x540/1200x800/filters:focal(75x0:885x540)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/1955623/hitman-absolution-blake-dexter.0.jpg

And prestige edition https://pics.me.me/chair-vs-chair-prestige-edition-43625153.png

personally I think all the prestige skins look like washed/bleached out crap. The regular versions are much more colorful, characterful, and overall nicer.

wolviusSep 19, 20195 votes

{quoted}

personally I think all the prestige skins look like washed/bleached out crap. The regular versions are much more colorful, characterful, and overall nicer.

Well Riot seems to think piss coloured chroma's are great and worth alota money for some reason. I agree with you they seem bland and nothing unique about them. At least kda akali had the neon effect when in shroud, everything else didn't have nothing special.

ImTheJuggernautySep 19, 20193 votes

{quoted}

Well Riot seems to think piss coloured chroma's are great and worth alota money for some reason. I agree with you they seem bland and nothing unique about them. At least kda akali had the neon effect when in shroud, everything else didn't have nothing special.

Lol I love it. Piss color is EXACTLY the way to describe those garbage overpriced "prestige" skins

GlîtchySep 20, 20191 votes

{quoted}

personally I think all the prestige skins look like washed/bleached out crap. The regular versions are much more colorful, characterful, and overall nicer.

Getting serious prestige KDA Ahri vibes, that skin was.......it was something alright, but not a good something

TheRunicBladeSep 19, 201911 votes

Ill just add her winrate here as well as her Pick/Ban rates (from u.gg) Bronze- 44% (Pick rate: 4.3%) (Ban rate: 1.6%)

Silver- 46% (Pick rate: 5.2%) (Ban rate: 2.2%)

Gold- 47% (Pick rate: 6.4%) (Ban Rate: 3.4%)

Platinum- 48% (Pick rate: 7.7%) (Ban rate: 5.4%)

Diamond-48% (Pick rate: 8.4%) (Ban rate: 8.2%)

Master- 49% (Pick rate: 7.5%) (Ban rate: 10.8%)

Grand master- 47% (Pick rate: 7.8%) (Ban rate: 14.7%)

Challenger- 47% (Pick rate: 8.1%) (Ban rate: 22%)

So lets not pretend that she is insanely op when all her winrates are sub 50% If you are going to argue a buff or nerf, at least include some stats. The only thing that changes substantially is the ban rate. (here come the down votes because everyone on the boards hates riven) [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Exin0Sep 20, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Ill just add her win rates here (from u.gg) Bronze- 44% Silver- 46% Gold- 47% Platinum- 48% Diamond-48% Master- 49% Grandmaster- 47% Challenger- 47%

So lets not pretend that she is insanely op when all her winrates are sub 50% If you are going to argue a buff or nerf, at least include some stats. (here come the down votes because everyone on the boards hates riven) [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

add pick/ban numbers for clarity its good to have numbers in context

TheRunicBladeSep 20, 20191 votes

Done.

RayhaNPrincESep 20, 20191 votes

If those numbers can show the real situation then we must start a petition for Huge Azir buffs for, 9.19.[sg-lulu]

Sightless66Sep 20, 20194 votes

Azir is a pro god and has to be balanced around professional play. Riven isn't, and doesn't.

LatoyaFromTheBXSep 19, 201910 votes

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Shes literally getting a new skin

dont you know riots a money hungry company now

letsfeedtogetherSep 19, 20197 votes

PRESTIGE SKIN

SchenixSep 19, 20195 votes

She dropped from like 54% Masters+ to 48 and like 51 to sub 50 every other elo.

She's still strong, and she always will be in the hands of one tricks. But there's a simple secession people have to understand.

Just because you do not like a champion, does not mean they deserve to be nerfed -- even if that champion, feels frustrating to play against. That is 'balance', it is irrespective of how people feel about the playstyle. Balance is statistical (yes, this means Aatrox, who is statistically hyper powerful in a distribution curve of pro play, meets this parameter even when sitting at a piss poor solo queue rate because of statistical significance to their goal), and is meant to meet certain benchmarks. You do not have to agree with how that works, but have to respect that it is the meaning.

Game health is separate from game balance, even though they have strong influence on eachother.

Is Riven healthy, having a champion based around cancels, that were originally a bug and even removed from other champions (like Zed) for being so? Most likely not.

Is Riven now balanced after her nerf, and justifiable to add 1 second to Q and reduce 1 second from E in order to contend with other champions that got buffed? Most likely so.

Daddy AntsSep 19, 20197 votes

{quoted}

She's still strong, and she always will be in the hands of one tricks

Every champion is.

There's a big difference between someone with 10 games Riven/Vayne/Yasuo experience compared to someone with 1000+ games experience.

It doesn't matter which champion it is.

Yes that skill difference may be smaller on certain "noob champs" like Ashe Annie Morgana MissFortune Tristana Sivir but it still exists.

SchenixSep 19, 20192 votes

Well yes, but no.

No matter what state Riven has been left in, her mains in Masters+ consistently remain there for the most part throughout every season. Almost all other champion mains are forced to switch up some FOTM champions to stay, or suffer an arduous curve.

Minimac2000Sep 19, 20192 votes

{quoted}

She dropped from like 54% Masters+ to 48 and like 51 to sub 50 every other elo.

She's still strong, and she always will be in the hands of one tricks. But there's a simple secession people have to understand.

Just because you do not like a champion, does not mean they deserve to be nerfed -- even if that champion, feels frustrating to play against. That is 'balance', it is irrespective of how people feel about the playstyle. Balance is statistical (yes, this means Aatrox, who is statistically hyper powerful in a distribution curve of pro play, meets this parameter even when sitting at a piss poor solo queue rate because of statistical significance to their goal), and is meant to meet certain benchmarks.

Game health is separate from game balance, even though they have strong influence on eachother.

Is Riven healthy, having a champion based around cancels, that were originally a bug and even removed from other champions (like Zed) for being so? Most likely not.

Is Riven now balanced after her nerf, and justifiable to add 1 second to Q and reduce 1 second from E in order to contend with other champions that got buffed? Most likely so.

It's just people being frustrated because riot left her 54% wr for over a year (all the riven mains blame it on shojin which is bs cuz most of them never build it) they finally nerf her adequately, and then they completely revert the nerf the very next patch while chamions like tahm kench and galio barely scrape out 40% winrates for the entire season and keep getting nerfed @thispatch

RagnaveilSep 19, 20196 votes

Idk why Riot keeps trying to adjust her Q cd. Make the cooldown happen when she doesn't use second or 3rd q or she spams all 3. Right now it scales down from first cast, which is already dumb as shit.

Tahminatrix Sep 19, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Just because you do not like a champion, does not mean they deserve to be nerfed -- even if that champion, feels frustrating to play against. That is 'balance', it is irrespective of how people feel about the playstyle.

TahmKench mains would like to have a word with you

SchenixSep 19, 20191 votes

(yes, this means Aatrox , who is statistically hyper powerful in a distribution curve of pro play, meets this parameter even when sitting at a piss poor solo queue rate because of statistical significance to their goal)

Baseline for all pro play champion balance nightmares.

There is in fact, an entire post, not just 2 lines.

Tahminatrix Sep 20, 20191 votes

Tahm`s winrate in pro play wasn't even that high though...

SchenixSep 20, 20191 votes

Not the only stat that matters...

Tahminatrix Sep 20, 20191 votes

It clearly is if the nerf wasn't even for pro play in the first place, im still referring to 9.14 where tahm was mostly a toplane issue.

"Just taking a sweeping pass at all the things that make tahm kench frustrating to play against"

What ever happened to them reverting the buff to his q slow which is what made him a problem against immobile champs and players who don't try to avoid it...

Instead they gut literally everything else in his kit because "its not fun to play against" despite that being the way it was for several seasons, meanwhile they keep his buffed q slow which was what made him problematic in toplane in the first place....

SchenixSep 20, 20191 votes

What made him problematic was being able to keep stacks up and having higher tank stats with less investment. The slow coupled with the stacks was an issue, nerfing both was certainly overkill. Tahm top was nerfed in solo, yes. Like how Pyke was nerfed solo, those are design implementations.

Pyke's weakness is his partner, not himself; reverse soraka. Therefore if he can be by himself and function, he is not meant to.

Tahm is meant to save others and keep enemies detained for pickup. Not kill them himself.

Sometimes diversity conflicts with player satisfaction. Some champions conflict a third corner into professional play, so while Tahm could have had power elsewhere, he is not allowed to because of professional metrics. Therefore he has to sit in a dump because his implementation and function are both hitting the edges.

Tahminatrix Sep 20, 20192 votes

Tahm kench on release was advertised by riot as a solo laner that could function as a support..

The difference between then and now was that his playstyle was all about stalling the game by denying picks with W and waveclearing with R roams in order to deny splitpushes and scale.

Now he is a lane bully because for some reason riot wants him to be a solo laner again without putting his passive damage back onto his R and making him scale and fight to reach lvl 16.

Also taking away tahm`s stacking mechanic on q was the worst thing riot could have ever done, his q stacks were the only skill expression tahm had against mobile champs, meanwhile it didn't matter how strong his slows were, they were going to outrun him with dashes and blinks, all that slow buff did was make him oppressive against immobile champs.

So basically riot just made tahm more oppressive against immobile champs while making him useless against mobile champs, almost like they want this game to be about rock paper scissors...

Considering how long it takes for tahm to hard cc an enemy champ now unless you build hydra / attack speed on him (which in turn means you are going to do damage as him) Tahm can not exist as a champion that simply just detains enemies and doesn't kill them himself..

If he didn't gain damage from the attack speed / auto reset that he is almost forced to build in order to cc the enemy, he would basically just be a squishy single target pile of crap that occasionally stuns you if your teammates don't bodyblock.

Daddy AntsSep 20, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tahminatrix ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JXQY91Qo,comment-id=000a0003,timestamp=2019-09-19T21:31:19.325+0000)

mains would like to have a word with you

Tahm didnt get nerfed due to being "hated".

He's getting nerfed because he's a pro play problem.

Only way in my opinion that Tahm Kench could be buffed up without pro play is some changes to Devour.

Unless they make devour less of a walking QSS I think he will just keep getting nerfed.

They shouldn't remove his ability to be a support but Devour needs to be less of a free QSS to reduce his presence in pro and allow him to receive solo queue based buffs

Why not make devour not able to pick up allies who are affected by crowd control that removes control of their champion?

So no picking up allies who are affected by things like Malzahar R, Warwick R, Yasuo R, Morgana Q etc.

You can still pick up allies who are affected by soft cc.

Tahminatrix Sep 20, 20191 votes

9.14 was not because of proplay, it was because riot didn't know wtf they were doing with his q slow compensation buff and nobody wanted to play against tahm.

Don't you remember the endless supply of angry boards posts complaining about tahm kench toplane.

When he only had a positive winrate in low-mid elo in only 1 or 2 regions.

"We are just taking a sweeping pass at all the things that make tahm kench frustrating to play against" That's literally what is written in the patch notes.

D357R0Y3RSep 19, 20195 votes

why is no one telling OP that it isn't being reverted since it was 10-6 sec cd before the nerf and not 12-8 sec cd?

ŚhunpoSep 19, 20194 votes

It's essentially a revert since she'll go back to the same playstyle, especially since they're also reverting the Q buff.

D357R0Y3RSep 19, 20194 votes

,????

don't say "essentially" it isn't one period, the numbers ain't the same means the nerf isn't reverted

you can say PARTIALLY reverted, but can't say they're reverting the nerf

DuskDaUmbreonSep 19, 20194 votes

I really do feel like Riot isn't listening to us at all when we say "Riven is too strong"

Gee, I wonder why. Maybe it has something to do with the boards knowing jack shit about balance.

I mean, you're calling for nerfs to a champion with a 0% winrate, pickrate, and banrate. Why does she have those stats? Because you can't do your most basic of jobs as OP and post the champion's actual stats before calling for nerfs.

Romans VI XXIIISep 19, 20197 votes

Oh and 0% are her actual stats? Good one!!

DuskDaUmbreonSep 19, 20193 votes

Do you see my name highlighted? No. I have zero fucking obligation to provide the stats. It's not my post.

Romans VI XXIIISep 19, 20199 votes

Aah but you did post stats. Absolutely wrong stats.

DuskDaUmbreonSep 19, 20194 votes

I made an absurd statement based off of the exact amount of evidence OP gave us to prove a point. They're wrong, blatantly wrong, deliberately wrong, yet correct as far as this post is concerned, because OP never bothered to prove anything in his original post.

I didn't post stats, I posted a point.

ŚhunpoSep 19, 20193 votes

What did I say that was false?

DuskDaUmbreonSep 19, 20191 votes

Everything and nothing.

You posted absolutely nothing relevant to balance. For all intents and purposes, you are writing a fucking fantasy story.

You never lied, but you also never said the actual truth. You made a claim without evidence.

ŚhunpoSep 20, 20191 votes